Я имею саженец этого года, название неизвестно . Но фига ,которую я фотографировал осенью 2013 года выглядит ,как Чёрная Мадейра из US Davis.  

I have a seedling of this year, the name is unknown. But the guys that I photographed in the autumn 2013 looks like black from Madeira..

The above from google translate..

Vladis...that picture of yours is incredible... wow.. I love it.

Граса, благодарю за положительный отзыв. Ещё фото этой фиги ,разрез.  

Graça, thank you for your positive feedback. More photos of the figs, cut.

Just picked these. Fantastic for figs ripened under lights. Portugal Black Madeira and Jon’s Black Madeira were both rich, juicy and full of berry flavor but they tasted a little bit different. Maybe the lights.

Portugal Black Madeira

 

 

 

    

Jon’s Black Madeira

 

 

Those look excellent, KK.

KK, were you able to compare black madeira vs black madeira island figs under normal ripening conditions to rule out the grow lights as a factor in the slight taste difference?

I had a BM from maderia island too. Was 2 feet tall and growing like crazy.
Then the USDA got mine.
Then they got my wuhan as well.....

Glad yours is doing well.

Nice looking fruit.

Have fun

Doug

ah the vigilant usda    they very politely removed my sumaki and golden thai mango seed   still in its mailing pouch.       sigh

KK's Portugal Black Madeira looks like Lampo's Sofeno Preto.
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/sof%C3%8Ano-preto-6497657?highlight=preto&pid=1279294071

Sofeno Preto is a distinct fig; I did not mean to imply otherwise, Francisco.

My observation is that KK's Portugal Black Madeira pics looks slightly different from Jon's Black Madeira pics above. Also, KK reported above that it tastes a bit different than Black Madeira. Perhaps it's because of different growing conditions or perhaps they are different varieties altogether since we know that Jon's Black Madeira is the Black Madeira and that KK's fig, mentioned here, is a black variety that is from the island of Madeira, Portugal.

I could very well be wrong but KK's Portugal Black Madeira interior pics are more similar to Sofeno Preto interior pic than to Jon's Black Madeira interior pics.

If anyone is growing The Black Madeira and KK's Portugal Black Madeira side by side, report ripened figs that look the same and taste the same, then I will be convinced they are the same.

Francisco, your post about Violeta being the direct ancestor to Figo Preto and Black Madeira is very convincing, even after the fourth read. It is one of the reasons why I ordered Figo Preto and Black Madeira for next year and looking for a source to buy cuttings or rooted Violeta; I want to see how far they drifted from each other in taste and looks when the environmental factor is zeroed out as best as possible.

I have seen reports of collectors having both Figo Preto and Black Madeira say they are the same and others say they are similar but different. To my knowledge, there isn't a report about the two and Violeta at the same time. Of course, they are overwhelmingly reported in the forum posts as as top line/ stand out delicious as well. : )

I believe Francisco is trying to do precisely that, Dan. Growing the 3 strains side to side and compare them in their native region. I don't know if he managed to get the 2 US strains though.

To be honest, i want to do that test myself in the future. I already have Violeta thanks to Francisco, but finding Figo Preto and even Black Madeira strains over here in not easy.

I hope to find out in the next couple of months, as well.

Black Madeira (Encanto Strain)
 
Black Fig Madeira KK
 
Figo Preto
 
Violeta
 

Ahh. It is ironic that they have origins there, migrate over here, and now, because of legislative barriers and commercial farming, are disappearing in their native land. I wish there is a way for at least 3 of us to have the material to test out these 3 varieties and share the results. How difficult is it over there to get phytocertification and other paperworks to import from the US? If it is not too hard, I would like to contribute in getting Figo Preto and Black Madeira over there. Greenfin's website offers bareroot plants next year if ordered this year and also phytocertification.

Thanks, Dan, but I think Harvey C has these as well, and his will ripen sooner than mine. I will start a new thread on these, and update as they ripen.The Violeta may be a bit later, as it is in ground.

Gary,

Since you are comparing all 4 strains can you tell me if there is a tendency for Black Madeira and Figo Preto to have mainly 1 lobe and 3 lobe leaves when they are young, while Violeta and KK strain seem to have 3 lobe and 5 lobe leaves from a very young age?

I asked this because i have Violeta from Francisco grafted and the leaves of my graft don't show a single 1 lobe leaf (apparently a tell tale sign of UC Davis BM reported by many people - hence the great controversy on this thread - https://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/black-madiera-leaves-question-7387766?highlight=black+madeira&pid=1290157511 that even reported a "wrong" variety being sold by JFE - i wonder how that ended up. Did your brother's tree ended up being BM or not, Nick?).

The majority of the leaves in my graft are 5 lobed ones with some (not many) with 3 lobes. Not a single one lobe leave in sight.

Quite curious. It could be that the grafts have a tendency to "bypass" the 1 lobe leaf that sometimes is associated with a more juvenile state so, Gary, i'm wondering if you noticed that difference in the various strain leaves.
It could be a difference of Violeta to the other strains BM and Figo Preto which photos always show 1 lobe and 3 lobe leafs.

Hello Jaime,

all but the Black Madeira have mostly single lobed leaves so far. All seemed to have started with single lobed leaves, and develop 3s and some 5s, as they grow. My older Black Madeira has many leaves that are 3 and 5 lobes, with fewer single leaves. I got my KK strain and Violeta as very young plants, I did not start them from cuttings, so, I have no pics of them from the start. Looking at them now, though, their lowest leaves seem to be mostly single lobe. Here are 2 pics of a Preto and Black Madeira, which I recently started from cuttings, and both show single, and 3 lobed leaves from the start.

 
 

Thanks for the answer and photos, Gary.

I see that your young Black Madeira and Preto show several 3 lobed leafs from a young age, as Violeta does - like in this post from Francisco - http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1279895320&postcount=13&forum=0

I am still a bit puzzled as why some BM trees still show so many single lobed leafs, even after several years and so very few 5 lobed ones if any, like the tree in this post - http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1287030593&postcount=9&forum=0

photo by FrozenJoe

 


while my Violeta graft has many 5 lobed with fat fingers and 3 lobed ones with just a few months and not a single one lobed leaf. Maybe the graft makes it skip it's infancy?

 
Meanwhile,  this is how a 10 year tree of Violeta looks like (i believe it was Francisco that published this photo, but i can't find the thread) and, unfortunately, i can't blow up the image (low resolution). But it seems it has lots of 3 and 5 lobed leafs, don't seem to notice a single one lobed leaf.




A bit puzzling, that's why i was trying to determine if it's a diference between Violeta and the other BM strains that seem to show so many one lobed leafs over there, but i don't think it's conclusive either way.

Oh well, in the end it's the same fig, and what a fig so, ultimately, who cares about leaf shapes...

There was a thread with information on the subject where a few pictures of Violeta leaves are shown to respond and help our fellow member Tam on his metaphysical magics

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/violeta-still-strong-6569728?highlight=violeta&pid=1281525606

I do appreciate all your concerns about all these leaves but for my taste, the fruit is by far, much..much.. better! (no offense)

cheers
Francisco
Portugal

You are so right, Francisco.

 I was just curious about the apparent difference between young BM and Violeta regarding single lobed leaves. In the end, after all my questions, i finally reach the same conclusion as you. Who cares about leaves when what matters is the excellent fruit of this cultivar.

But it's only human, this need we have, when we get a new variety that hasn't produced yet, to try and confirm, using leaf shapes, that we have the right one.

Not that i have any doubt regarding your Violeta, mind you. I have the most complete confidence on your cuttings. I was just curious on the "different" leaf patterns of the various strains - if indeed they are not the same fig, as it seems.


But, when we talk about cultivar identification from tell tale signs, i can say that, for instance, i was very pleased when i confirmed i had a real Sbayi, when i saw the red scars on the young stems, one or two years ahead of it producing any fruit.

So i understand the concern and the need to compare leaf patterns. For instance, when people buy a BM from JBF and the leaves seem different from the usual pattern, its understandable that they raise the question - Do I have the right variety?

Nobody likes to wait 3-4 years, sometimes passing good opportunities of getting the wanted cultivars, only to find out that someone has made a mistake at the store. But people also need to understand that leaves do change with the age of the tree and that, sometimes, they have no reason to worry.

Thanks,