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$7 fig trees for spring/summer delivery, around 150+ varieties

I'm not feeling very appeased. I don't see anyone else posting that they've been appeased by receiving their order either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheASTrader

sales of fig futures contracts.


We all knew going into this that we were buying plants in the future. That's why the prices are so low. Have you looked at purchasing fig plants lately? GrowOrganic.com sells fig trees for $25 bucks, and those are common varieties. Dave Wilson fig trees usually go for $25-30 bucks. Lets not even talk about how much people ask for figs on ebay... $14 dollars for tiny 3" tissue culture VdB plants is the low end and the sky is the limit!

If I had paid $25/tree + shipping, I would be upset at all the delays. But I didn't pay that much. 

I left for more popcorn and a coke. Did I miss anything :)

Just the butter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheASTrader


initial investors are appeased by receiving payments funded by new investors

That's exactly what's happening here.  How are you not seeing this?  There are several posts here, including yours, that agree that without continual in-flow of orders, he would not be able to fulfill previous orders.  Structurally, that is a Ponzi scheme and exactly what you described above.  

As for the question of how has he benefited: an expansion of his operation with new hoophouses, a hire of a horticulturalist, time delays allowing existing 2015 trees to grow out more cuttings than he would not have had if he actually fulfilled the orders in time--all assets in which he has enriched himself with from proceeds from sales of fig futures contracts.


I understand what you are saying--I really do.  But you do realize he hasn't fulfilled any orders at all, right?

My understanding is he is trying to build an inventory large enough to fulfill everyone's orders at once (2016) and have enough of an operation in place to fulfill future orders.  Whether or not that occurs is anyone's guess.

As I said back earlier in the thread, if he truly is using 2017 money to make 2016 trees then that is bordering on the "Ponzi Scheme" concept.

Hovever, if this is a Ponzi scheme, it is executed very poorly.  If he wanted to do that then he would take orders out to 2020, use the money to buy trees from other sellers, and deliver them on time in 2016, creating the impression that things were running along smoothly, then get orders out to 2025 to deliver the trees for 2017, and so on.  Instead everyone is waiting for a tree and many are frustrated, which theoretically may cut down on future orders and increase cancellations.

If you read my posts in this thread I think you will see I'm not some defender of this business model, but someone trying to rationally analyze what is going on.

At this point the price is irrelevant. There were shipment dates given and money changed hands. They were approximate dates but a year off in the estimation is ridiculous.

I came across the Greenfin website and ordered trees over 6 months ago. After receiving no communication or response to e-mails, I did some research and found this site and these posts. I find it interesting that this "James" has so many loyal customers on this thread.

"We all knew going into this we were buying plants for the future."
"I see it as orders which are late."
"From the get-go James said this is a shaky business venture, but that he would do what he could to deliver."
"He hired a horticulturist.." By his own admission only for 5-10 hrs per week, if you can believe that.

Now I read that there are orders from 2015 that have not been filled and yet people still defend this guy. If indeed people paid for orders and don't mind waiting that is clearly their prerogative. But, there are unsuspecting consumers, like myself, who paid money without the opportunity to have made an informed decision. Had I known just how 'late' the business is operating, I would not have placed my order. I requested a refund and yes I put REFUND in the subject line. No refund yet.

I am surprised nobody has reported him to the authorities for taking money and not delivering a product. There are laws that protect consumers from being scammed or defrauded. Poor planning or business management is not a legal defense. 

Since you are new here, I will let you know. "You will be assimilated, resistance is futile." We will gather the necessary supplies and hang you at dawn.

Poor guy he just over-booked. And it's not like anyone's been dragged out of there seat and bloodied. So look at the bright side, compared to United (a 1.5 Billion dollar corporation with thousands of employee's), James is a saint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamafig
Since you are new here, I will let you know. "You will be assimilated, resistance is futile." We will gather the necessary supplies and hang you at dawn.
Oh hell no there will be no hanging for speaking the truth.I am not one of these guys who is so worried about my reputation that I am going to invent some new screen name so I can get my two cents worth in. Has 1 person got their order yet? James got greedy and that is the root of the problem! Now bring your ropes to me. LMAO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardnernw
I came across the Greenfin website and ordered trees over 6 months ago. After receiving no communication or response to e-mails, I did some research and found this site and these posts. I find it interesting that this "James" has so many loyal customers on this thread.

"I see it as orders which are late."


I assume that's referring to me.  I mean...they are orders...which are late...aren't they? Not sure I'd call that a defense.

At this point they aren't late. They are nonexistent, in my opinion. I feel defrauded.

Well, that is certainly a possibility.  But since I can't say whether they will be delivered or not, I have to call them late.  Orders which haven't been delivered?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adipose
Well, that is certainly a possibility.  But since I can't say whether they will be delivered or not, I have to call them late.  Orders which haven't been delivered?

How much longer until you would consider it fraudulent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adipose


I understand what you are saying--I really do.  But you do realize he hasn't fulfilled any orders at all, right?

My understanding is he is trying to build an inventory large enough to fulfill everyone's orders at once (2016) and have enough of an operation in place to fulfill future orders.  Whether or not that occurs is anyone's guess.

As I said back earlier in the thread, if he truly is using 2017 money to make 2016 trees then that is bordering on the "Ponzi Scheme" concept.

Hovever, if this is a Ponzi scheme, it is executed very poorly.  If he wanted to do that then he would take orders out to 2020, use the money to buy trees from other sellers, and deliver them on time in 2016, creating the impression that things were running along smoothly, then get orders out to 2025 to deliver the trees for 2017, and so on.  Instead everyone is waiting for a tree and many are frustrated, which theoretically may cut down on future orders and increase cancellations.

If you read my posts in this thread I think you will see I'm not some defender of this business model, but someone trying to rationally analyze what is going on.


I understand what you are saying--I really do.  But you do realize he hasn't fulfilled any orders at all, right?

Then what you are saying is that it's not a Ponzi scheme, per se, but conspiracy to commit...

LMAO!!!!!! C'mon. 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardnernw


I am surprised nobody has reported him to the authorities for taking money and not delivering a product. There are laws that protect consumers from being scammed or defrauded. Poor planning or business management is not a legal defense. 


Go for it.  

I believe James has left the building.

I believe james is too busy growing fig trees for us to waste time reading a thread where people act like he's Bernie Madoff. 

I requested a refund on Tuesday, no response... gonna do a chargeback next week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianm
How much longer until you would consider it fraudulent?


I would say the delays are unacceptable.  To declare it fraudulent I'd have to know more than I can possibly know--like an official investigation into his business.  Obviously, everyone has a breaking point and > 1 year late might be that number for some people.  But proving fraud would require some evidence that the failure to deliver was intentional, rather than poor business management.

I will say this.  I have already requested a refund recently because the trees I ordered no longer interest me.  I have acquired nearly all the varieties I wanted through more traditional sources (rooting cuttings from Harvey, for example).  At this point those late orders would just overload my inventory.  If I do not get my refund in a timely manner (1 week) I will be sure to post that information here.

Last time I emailed James it took about 3 days to get a response so I'm being patient.  But despite what some seem to think, I don't have rose colored glasses here (I was even verbally accosted earlier in the thread for suggesting James may be underwater due to his heating costs :) ).

I originally took a risk on $7 trees because for some of the varieties offered, the price was 1/10 that of buying trees through other sources.  In some cases, I bid on a variety a few times and didn't win any.  It seemed like a low risk in terms of money invested and I was happy to wait until late in the season to get those rarer varieties.

A Ponzi scheme can be a failed business, but a failed business does not have to be a Ponzi scheme.  If this business venture fails, it will take more than countless delays and frustration to prove fraud.

Asked for a refund a few weeks back and did not get a response, So I charged back on paypal, no problem, they said as long as it has not been over 6 months. Then you could have issues.

I'm past 6 months for one order.  I had a second order that might be less.

good luck...

Quote:
Originally Posted by adipose
To declare it fraudulent I'd have to know more than I can possibly know--like an official investigation into his business. 


And how would an official investigation ever happen if you continue to deny it for what it is and act on it?  lol.  Rather circular logic there.

I asked James twice for refund without response and my protection from Paypal is over 180 days .

PayPal can do nothing? Try the BBB.

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