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xenil

Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 40
Reply with quote  #1 
Hello guys!
I saw some hardy pomegranates on the internet, I read the Kazake the hardiest, but nowhere can i found how hardy, and i couldn't see a garden where i can buy them in europe. And what is the lowest temperature can it survive.
I want to ask it because i want to grow them in the ground in zone 6b in hungary. And we sometimes have -20 C but not usually.


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Kristian

Location:Hungary,zone 6B 

Currently growing: Laradek EBT, Negretta, Mitchurinska 10, Hardy Chicago, Sal's El, Orsara (probably Rossellino), Soféno Pretó, Pingo de Mel, Colasanti Dark, Kutfeji Black, Black Plate, Khurtmanni

timclymer

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 269
Reply with quote  #2 
Bass (on the forum) probably has the most experience in growing cold-hardy pomegranates.  I was able to root 3 varieties this year from cuttings via UC Davis: Salavatski, Kazake, and Entek Habi Saveh.  I think I had read somewhere that these were the most cold-hardy.  I think Bass has mentioned that his Salavatski has survived -8F with little to no damage.
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Bass

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Reply with quote  #3 
I grow salavatski and others but the only one that has been productive for me is salvatski. I have over 25 on the tree right now. I picked some that were ripe and they are excellent this year.

Attached Images
jpeg image.jpg (856.82 KB, 71 views)


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xenil

Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 40
Reply with quote  #4 
Hello
Thanks for the replies. Those pomegranates looks delicous. But i have a question for you bass what is the lowest temperature is it survived? And what is your hardiest pomegranate the slavatski or?

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Kristian

Location:Hungary,zone 6B 

Currently growing: Laradek EBT, Negretta, Mitchurinska 10, Hardy Chicago, Sal's El, Orsara (probably Rossellino), Soféno Pretó, Pingo de Mel, Colasanti Dark, Kutfeji Black, Black Plate, Khurtmanni

Bass

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Reply with quote  #5 
Out of 5 varieties I planted 3 are still alive. One variety the Russian pomegranate died to the ground and sprouted. Wonderful died to the ground and never sprouted back. Salavatski and Kazake both survived 2 winters ago -8°F, The only damage on the Salavatski was one branch that was bearing lots of fruit previous season. 


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Bass

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Reply with quote  #6 
Here's a video with showing the Pomegranates and other fruit trees.


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alanmercieca

Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 2,242
Reply with quote  #7 
Bass - how old is the producing tree

I have done some recent research on cold hardy pomegranates. They can only handle like 5 degrees colder than one and another. just like Bass hinted at, just because they can survive at a low temperature does not mean that they will produce in the climate.

Based upon a hardiness test done on the 3 pomegranate varieties I list below and based Bass's experiences with them I am thinking that the coldest that they can produce based upon variety is hardiness zone 6A yet, that 6B (where the cold hardiness testing is done) is better. Yet I doubt that that anything colder than 7B or maybe even 7A would be very impressive from them.

Kazakhe" (originally from Uzbekistan) (also referred to as Kazake aka Kazake-anor) (said to be the most cold hardy pomegranate around)

"Entek habi Saveh" (originally from Iran) (said to be more cold hardy than Salavatski)

"Salavatski" originally from Russia) might be also known as "Russian-Turk" and might be known as Russian 8, or R-8. Has survived -6F in Georgia. I have seen no proof of this one being tested in any colder temps than that

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alanmercieca

Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 2,242
Reply with quote  #8 
Bass - Online a lot of people have said that they think "Russian pomegranate" is "Salavatski". They are both very cold hardy and the fruit seems identical. Also someone who grew up eating "Salavatski" said that the fruits of "Russian pomegranate" and "Salavatski" look identical. Is the "Russian pomegranate younger"?
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ejp3

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Reply with quote  #9 
How can you tell when they are ripe and should be picked?
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alanmercieca

Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 2,242
Reply with quote  #10 
this tells how to know, yet not all pomegranates are the same exact colors http://www.ehow.com/video_4757779_when-pick-pomegranates.html
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alanmercieca

Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 2,242
Reply with quote  #11 
there is a black pomegranate that has survived 9 degrees below zero Fahrenheit ...it's called "Eight Ball"

There is another red pomegranate besides the well known ones called 'State Fair'. It has survived 9 degrees below zero Fahrenheit as well

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Pattee

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Registered: 08/23/12
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Reply with quote  #12 
Are there dwarf varieties of pomegranate ? Bass what is the variety of paw paw that grows like a grapevine? I couldn't make it out on the video. Thanks...
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strudeldog

Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 632
Reply with quote  #13 

I just picked up 8 more cultivars last weekend.  Besides the  Salavatski and Kazke listed prior, Kaj-acik-anor, Surh-anor and Sumbar are reported some of the more hardy.  Early ripening can be as big a factor in a colder climate as well.  As far as I know Eight Ball is mostly an ornamental type. 

 For ripening I think it is best to wait until the skin starts to taunt up a bit and become a little leathery at least that's what I have tried with my limited experience. If it starts to split pick it. Color of the skin or the arils is not always a good indication and as stated not all cultivars are the Red of the familiar "Wonderful" cultivar found in the U.S. marketplaces.

  

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Boris

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 118
Reply with quote  #14 

Xenil,
In former Yugoslavia they had a variety Uzbekski Sladki Nar which is translated as Sweet Uzbek Pomegranate. This one could very likely be Kazake, as Kazake is a sweeter variety compared to Salavatski which is from Uzbekistan as well. So you can try to find that variety through some ethnic Hungarians who live in former Yugoslav republics and are members of the gardening forums.

Also, as a member said above, you can look for an early ripening variety which will not necessarily be cold hardy. Instead you could make every winter a box around it and fill it with leafs, hay, or straw for insulation.

Bass

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Reply with quote  #15 
Patee, the vine is hardy kiwi.
The Russian might be similar, but not the same hardiness. Since the Russian keeps dying down.
Eight ball is very sour, not edible.

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alanmercieca

Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 2,242
Reply with quote  #16 
this one that I mentioned above is a dwarf that can handle 9 degrees below zero Fahrenheit http://www.plantdelights.com/Punica-granatum-State-Fair-State-Fair-Dwarf-Pomegranate/productinfo/1730/
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nkesh099

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Reply with quote  #17 
Entekhabi Saveh is a cold hardy one. Does well in zone 6 without little to no protection.

Navid.
alanmercieca

Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 2,242
Reply with quote  #18 
Actually Eight Ball is a dwarf that grows up to be 7.5 feet tall and it has large sized black pomegranates. And as far as I know it's not used as an ornamental.
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Pattee

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Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 1,415
Reply with quote  #19 
Thanks Alan , I going to look into these as I'd like to plant a few varieties at our FL home - so cold hardy is not an issue.

Bass thanks - lol I didn't realize it was a kiwi - I was so intent on trying to hear what you said instead !

From what I just read Eight Ball is also edible - but not sure about the taste!

Does anyone grow or tried Angel Red?


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alanmercieca

Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 2,242
Reply with quote  #20 
Bass mentioned the taste of the Eight Ball poms above does not sound great. Almost sounds like cranberries not edible as is.

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strudeldog

Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 632
Reply with quote  #21 

I have an Angel Red, mine should fruit next year I hope. I have tried the fruit and it is a softer seed as I recall with good flavor. I have tasted Eight Ball as well, that's why I referred to it as a ornamental. I think the color is why it was selected, not the taste.  In FL you have a wide selection that will grow well for you U.F. has  a project evaluating many types. See link below with a lot of great info in the drop down menu.  I prefer a sweet/tart mix but there are ones without tartness.

http://www.crec.ifas.ufl.edu/extension/pomegranates/


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Pattee

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Posts: 1,415
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by strudeldog

I have an Angel Red, mine should fruit next year I hope. I have tried the fruit and it is a softer seed as I recall with good flavor. I have tasted Eight Ball as well, that's why I referred to it as a ornamental. I think the color is why it was selected, not the taste.  In FL you have a wide selection that will grow well for you U.F. has  a project evaluating many types. See link below with a lot of great info in the drop down menu.  I prefer a sweet/tart mix but there are ones without tartness.

http://www.crec.ifas.ufl.edu/extension/pomegranates/




Thanks for this Strudeldog !!



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"We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?"
-  Gandhi
123456789

Registered: 09/13/12
Posts: 7
Reply with quote  #23 
Salavatski, suhr anor, kazake, kaj acikanor, eight ball, favorite(lyubimi), flora plena, dk from shevlon and state fair all grow well in zone 7.
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WillsC

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Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 1,602
Reply with quote  #24 
I am part of the study Strudeldog mentioned.  I have been growing:

Afganski
Azadi
Desertnyi
Gissarskii Rozovyi
Grenada
Nikitski ranni
Parfyanka
Sakerdze
Salavatski
Shirin Zigar
Sin-Pepe
Vkusnyi
Wonderful
Russian #8
Vietnam (Big yellow)

Just this morning I made the 3 hour trek south and picked up 13 more varieties:

asperonski

tabestani

sirenevyr

al sirin nor

kunduzski

angel red

kazake

surh anor

christina

kaj acik anor

mejhos 6269

girkanet

saartazski

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xenil

Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 40
Reply with quote  #25 
Hello Guys!
Thanks for all reply.
-8 F* is very good for a pomegranate, so i think i will try the slavatski, and kazake in the ground with a little protection. 
WillSc can you take up some pictures from Kazake?
From the tree and the fruit.

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Kristian

Location:Hungary,zone 6B 

Currently growing: Laradek EBT, Negretta, Mitchurinska 10, Hardy Chicago, Sal's El, Orsara (probably Rossellino), Soféno Pretó, Pingo de Mel, Colasanti Dark, Kutfeji Black, Black Plate, Khurtmanni

WillsC

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Posts: 1,602
Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenil
Hello Guys!
Thanks for all reply.
-8 F* is very good for a pomegranate, so i think i will try the slavatski, and kazake in the ground with a little protection. 
WillSc can you take up some pictures from Kazake?
From the tree and the fruit.


My Kazake is a 1 gallon in a pot:)  calling it a tree is generous.   Far as the fruit check back in 3 years lol.  

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Bass

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Reply with quote  #27 
I was recently contacted by a man who collected a pomegranate while Ashgabat, Turkmenistan. He brought the seeds home and planted them and one tree survived for several years and has lots of fruits. This tree grown here in Pennsylvania. He invited me to come visit him.
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alanmercieca

Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 2,242
Reply with quote  #28 
Bass - sounds like a wonderful find
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HarveyC

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Reply with quote  #29 
I just "discovered" this thread and some of you know I spend most of my pomegranate discussion time on a Yahoo group I started five years ago.

There are probably some pomegranate plants sold under the name "Russian", "Russian 8", and "Giant Russian" which are, in fact, Salavatski.  The confusion was created mostly because one hobby grower relied on Sharpie markers to really be permanent and discovered too late that they weren't.  There could very well be trees with different genetics called "Russian".  There are a lot of Russian pomegranates.

Kazake was mentioned somewhere above as being sweet.  It is a sweet-tart type, similar to Salavatski.  In the 2009 tasting at Wolfskill when I believe it was last included for tasting, the order of fruits from sweetest to most tart included Kazake at #10 and Salvatski was #11.  By comparison, Parfianka was #7.

Here is a photo from another member of the pomegranate discussion group which shows Kazake in the middle and Salavatski on the right:



Group is located at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PomWorldwide/

Someone mentioned the taste of Angel Red.  I have 8 trees of Angel Red in my orchard.  It doesn't ripen nearly as early as advertised, at least in my location.  When I let the fruit get very ripe in late October it was quite good.  I supplied fruit of it to Jeff at Davis and it was included at the Wolfskill tasting earlier this month and it was pretty well received but the seeds were harder than Wonderful, IMO.  The fruits are also smaller.  My earliest variety is Granada and it was spoiled already by late October.  I am also growing a couple of Kandahar Early but it's not producing yet.

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Harvey - Correia Farms, Correia Chestnut Farm, Figaholics, PurelyPoms, etc. Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

NOTE: Essentially all of my figs from 2013 and subsequent have been caprified so fruits may be different than those grown in areas without caprifigs/wasps.

https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

fildz

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #30 
food of the gods..full of antioxidants
fildz

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #31 
there are so many varieties.....
zene

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #32 
i heard the russian varieties are so delicious
HarveyC

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Reply with quote  #33 
Zene, my crop this year was large enough to ship mail orders of pomegranates to quite a few customers.  One customer in NYC is a big fan and ordered three times, getting 140 pounds of them.  He was very enthusiastic, to say the least.  I sent him sweet types, sweet-tart types, etc., about 12-15 varieties altogether.  Some other people hadn't tried more than 1 or 2 varieties before and had a fun time with a tasting part of their own.
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Harvey - Correia Farms, Correia Chestnut Farm, Figaholics, PurelyPoms, etc. Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

NOTE: Essentially all of my figs from 2013 and subsequent have been caprified so fruits may be different than those grown in areas without caprifigs/wasps.

https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

WillsC

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Reply with quote  #34 
Harvey,

You are responsible for me having 26 pom varieties:)  You were very helpful when I was researching growing poms here in Florida and when you directed me to Dr. Castle it was cased closed.  

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HarveyC

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Reply with quote  #35 
You're welcome....I think! ;)  I'm up to around 70 varieties now but have resorted to removing some inferior ones to allow room for something better.  I've used grafting in some cases but have had some grafts fail after over a year so I am not relying on that method very much.  I hope they are working out great for you.
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Harvey - Correia Farms, Correia Chestnut Farm, Figaholics, PurelyPoms, etc. Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

NOTE: Essentially all of my figs from 2013 and subsequent have been caprified so fruits may be different than those grown in areas without caprifigs/wasps.

https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

WillsC

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Reply with quote  #36 
I didn't say thank you :)  lol.  We shall see in a couple years.  I do enjoy the poms though and trading the varieties helped me get a LOT of fig cuttings so it is all good.
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oldvt

Registered: 12/09/11
Posts: 209
Reply with quote  #37 
Is there a place to buy pomegranate cuttings, Rex.
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strudeldog

Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 632
Reply with quote  #38 
Rex,

One great source  of Pomegranate Cuttings is UC Davis if you ordering fig cuttings they can be ordered and sent at the same time. Several places are selling more cultivars now, but I really don't know who sells cuttings. I have 3 young cultivars I take a few cuttings from if you have interest. I have about 12 more cultivars I just picked up this fall as started cuttings. Some places like Green seas farms  are selling a bunch of cultivars and reasonable priced at $10 for a started plant.

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HarveyC

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Reply with quote  #39 
USDA GRIN at Davis has provided cuttings in the past but their ordering deadline is past.  I sold cuttings last year and will probably do it again this coming January or February if there is sufficient interest.  I will probably post a notice in the PomWorldwide Yahoo group but you can send me an email in late January, if you'd like.  I'm not prepared to take a list of requests now.  Use my email address of harveycorreia at yahoo dot com or just join the pom group linked above (post #29).
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Harvey - Correia Farms, Correia Chestnut Farm, Figaholics, PurelyPoms, etc. Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

NOTE: Essentially all of my figs from 2013 and subsequent have been caprified so fruits may be different than those grown in areas without caprifigs/wasps.

https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

gorgi

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Reply with quote  #40 
I love the pomegranate fruit.
They are a pain in the butt to peel/release the pulpy seeds from the skin,
but then they are delicious...

One pomegranate that was mentioned here as being more hardy, is the "Salavatski".
Amongst other vendors; RollingRiverNursery has 2 such (rooted) plants left in stock...
http://www.rollingrivernursery.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=627&category_id=37&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26

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strudeldog

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Reply with quote  #41 
Harvey,

Curious what cultivars you are culling, and hoping It doesn't overlap to much with my recent acquired list. Mother nature I am sure will provide the initial culling for me hoping she leaves me a few options. Any Softer seeded ones you think might be hardy? I picked up a Sumbar, think there was a thread on your forum regarding it might be hardy or at least early.

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WillsC

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Reply with quote  #42 
Cindy at Green Sea farms is going to sell cuttings this winter @ I think $4 per.  They have maybe 80 different varieties.  They also sell one gallon plants ($10) and liners ($5).  
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HarveyC

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Reply with quote  #43 
I'm not culling too much, just preparing cuttings from pruning.  I am getting rid of one of two 'Evernsweet' and getting rid of my one 'Sweet'.  I have about 70 varieties with about 60 in the ground.  My price will probably be something like $2 per cutting with $10 minimum and lower prices for quantity orders, etc.  Still need to figure out what makes sense for the time involved, etc.  I have about 140 trees, so have plenty to select from but preparing cuttings and shipping is time consuming, not much of a money-maker. I also have about 300 potted trees for sale.  Write me off list since this is a fig forum.
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Harvey - Correia Farms, Correia Chestnut Farm, Figaholics, PurelyPoms, etc. Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

NOTE: Essentially all of my figs from 2013 and subsequent have been caprified so fruits may be different than those grown in areas without caprifigs/wasps.

https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

juicebud

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 25
Reply with quote  #44 
I'm just going to state the obvious here.............What the heck does pomegranates have anything to do with figs?
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HarveyC

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Reply with quote  #45 
Not much, maybe a little more than the discussions of prickly pear, guava, etc.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110947311747
    :)

I have suggested that folks take this discussion to the pomegranate discussion group I started where I do restrict posts to pomegranate-related topics.

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Harvey - Correia Farms, Correia Chestnut Farm, Figaholics, PurelyPoms, etc. Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

NOTE: Essentially all of my figs from 2013 and subsequent have been caprified so fruits may be different than those grown in areas without caprifigs/wasps.

https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

juicebud

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 25
Reply with quote  #46 
Alright man, you got me there.It's that picture.
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That wicked tongue
figfan_hungary

Registered: 11/12/12
Posts: 40
Reply with quote  #47 
Hello all,

I'm also from Hungary and know Xenil from a Hungarian gardener's forum. However, from a different region and topographic conditions, a zone 8 climate, we have fig trees, olives, loquats, laurel trees, etc, Xenil knows it from that forum. So I'm also interested in collecting pomegranate cultivars, not only the hardiest ones, I'd like to concentrate to fruit quality (size, flavor, quality of seeds, etc.) so cold hardiness is a great plus, but not a must. I'm open to exchanges, I'd like to obtain many of these Central Asian, Russian varieties especially Parfianka, Savatsky, and all others. I have enough place for them so I could collect, let's say 20-30 varieties.

I OFFER:
-Several figs as you can see here:
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/exchange-cuttings-europe-%28Ihave-50-varieties%29-6083536
-16 persimmon varieties:
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/OT-persimmon-exchange-6190225

Bass, Alanmercieca, WillsC and others, please contact me if interested.

Thank you,
Akos
WillsC

Avatar / Picture

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 1,602
Reply with quote  #48 
Figfan,

While I would LOVE to have some of the figs on your list sending you cuttings of poms and you figs to me would not be legal so have to very reluctantly say no:(   Good luck finding your plants.  

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Central Florida 9A Wish list: Perretta,  Dall'Osso, De La Seynora, Parsotta, Napolitana Nera, Malone, Coll de dama Blanca/Negra, Paratjal Rimada,  Cendrosa, Verdal d'Oriola, Rigato de Salento, Princesa
ChillyNPhilly

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 326
Reply with quote  #49 
Looking forward to hearing more about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass
I was recently contacted by a man who collected a pomegranate while Ashgabat, Turkmenistan. He brought the seeds home and planted them and one tree survived for several years and has lots of fruits. This tree grown here in Pennsylvania. He invited me to come visit him.

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Donna
Philadelphia Zone 7
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