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Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > Kathleen Black compared to Negronne/Vista/Violette de Bordeaux
 
 


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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 

Compare and contrast Kathleen Black vs other really good dark figs.  flavor, heat requirements, wet weather performance, quantity or whatever comes to mind.  Thanks.
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Zone 6, MO

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Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Does not compare to any other black fig,because it is large easy to grow and medium hardy,so with relative easy winter protection,will grow and ,ripe,even here in north east temperate cold climate.
Other dark figs of it's quality usually have smaller fruits,OR ARE late to ripe,and in our climate here might not ripe at all in cold rainy Summers.
noss

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Hi Herman,

Can we assume it does well in rain/humidity, then?

Thanks,

noss
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noss/a.k.a. Vivian Lafayette, LA Zone 9a Wish List: Col de Dame Blanc, Col de Dame Noir, Scott's Yellow, Tony's Brown Italian, any other fig that is good in the rain/humidity and has a real figgy flavor.
Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
It sure resist rain,because this is the most important quality for me too,outside early ripening,and it resist rain very well.
espo8

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Hi Vasile, What varieties are  "Other Dark Figs Of It's Quality". I am trying to determine top Dark cultivers for our north east climate.
            
                               Stay Well,
                                       Antonio
Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Hi Antonio:There is only one dark cultivar that compare with it,in quality and flavor ,if it wouldn't be so infected with fig mosaic virus.
And that is Burnisotte from UCDavis collection.
But in owr climate it will never produce fruit to be close to potential because of the FMV infection ,as the tree can't fight the Winters here.
I collaborated with other collectors,and I got in trade 2 other Burnisotte from Sources other than UCDavis ,in the hope to find a healthy cultivar.
I grew Them and they turned out to be inferior hybrids making some brown fruits,of mediocre quality.
So I am back to square one!.
Yet recently,I found proof that Burjasotte Noire (Violette de Sollies)is the cultivar that is identical to UCD Barnisotte,and It is commercially grown in France,and possibly those are healthy cultivars.
But I could not find a source to get cuttings.
Here it is how a contender to Kathleen Black look!
This fig is not identical to Kathleen black at all,but is the only one that is on the same level in quality flavor,cold & rain  resistance,sweetness etc.
So if you aquire a Burjasotte noire from France,I am intereste to get a cutting from you.
Till then Kathleen Black is the Dark King,just like Adriatic Jh is the White King!

Attached Images
jpeg BarnisotteDSCN0292.JPG (243.21 KB, 212 views)
espo8

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
OK Vasile, You will be the first to get a cutting if i am lucky in aquiring it.  Thanks for your help.
                                 
                                  stay well,
                                           Antonio
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 

Can I be the second?  :)
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Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Herman2, Any chance I could get a few Adriatic cuttings from  you?  I love that variety and can't find one.  I didn't get my request in to Jon in time to snag one of his.  Thanks for considering it.  :)
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Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
No ,My tree is too young and small but the results were great last Rainy cold Summer.
Cuttings ,can be taken only next Fall if it develops into a larger tree(I have 2 of them).
Axier

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Herman, I had Bourjassotte Noire (Violette de Sollies).
It is a good fig in Mediterranean climates but in not so dry and sunny climates it is not a recommendable variety.
It splits and sours badly at the minimum rain or wet weather, and it is a late variety.
I removed it.
Do you have Noire de Barbentane? it is a very similar variety, but it is a bit earlier and a bit more resistant to wet weather. It is of excellent taste according to P. Baud, even it seems that he prefers NdB to BN.
My NdB fruited the past summer for first time, but they didn't ripen well because it was an horrible season for figs, so I can't opine about its taste.
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Axier
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Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Yes:I have Noire de Barbentane,the Problem is,it is very similar to Kathleen Black.
It was too young past season,and did not ripe fruits so I can compare better but it was very similar to it.
UC Davis Barnisotte(in the above pix),was different,the main difference it was because it had a green growing tip,and not red,like the Kathleen black,and Noire de Barbentane.Also Burnisotte (UC Davis )( resisted very well to rain without splitting),
Second crop only,I mean,because the breba fell down.
Of course cultivars ,perform very different in different places,but my results were exceptionally good with UCD Barnisotte except the Fig mosaic deasese,which makes the tree die in the Winter here.
Axier

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
In my trials, Bourjassotte Noire was one of the worst figs for rain resistance, together with Madeleine des Deux Saisons. It is really hateful in this regard.
Talking about with Monserrat Pons, he confirmed this bad characteristic of Bourjassotte Noire. Despite this, he says it is on of the best figs in his climate, but it must be well ripened.
Both Noire de Barbentane and Bourjassotte Noire are strictly uniferes.
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Axier
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Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Axier:Again confusion:I grew Barnisotte from UC Davis and I can see discrepance between what Burjasotte noir- Barnisotte suppose to be and What UCD specymen,and Violette de Sollies look like,in that Burjasotte noire- is a very flat fig,and UCD Barnisotte and Violette de Sollies are much more elongated fruits.
They seem to be different figs?
Here is some pixes:
UCD Barnisotte

Burjasotte
Last pix is Burjasotte noire
UCD Barnisotte and Violette de Sollies seem to be the same, as I had some pixes from France and it checked out.
All the pixes of UCD Barnisotte are mine from my back yard tree I grew about 5 years ago.And all are main crop fruits.
It seem to me thre are 2 different figs
One Barnisotte,Burjasotte with flat fruits
Another Burnisotte Violette de Sollies with elongated fruits.
Axier:were your fruits elongated or flat?

Attached Images
jpeg 2008BarnFrtDSCN0301.JPG (118.79 KB, 100 views)
jpeg 2008BarnisotteDSCN0300.JPG (145.96 KB, 92 views)
jpeg Barnisotte_blkRSCN0295.JPG (137.36 KB, 93 views)
jpeg bourjassotte.jpg (19.97 KB, 97 views)
Axier

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Yes, it is confusing, according to your pictures they are clearly different varieties.
My Bourjassotte Noire was the same as P. Baud site, it is a flat fig, very characteristic. Noire de Barbentane has the same shape.

According to P. Baud, Violette de Sollies and Bourjassotte Noire are the same fig, are synonyms.

Your Barnisotte pictures are, apparently, another variety.

P. Baud's description of Bourjassotte Noire:



And Noire de Barbentane:
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Axier
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Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
OK Axier:That means that Universiyt of California has a different fig ,as Burnisotte.
On the other hand This is the specimen I am looking to find a healthy cultivar ,because this is the one that was  growing well,here and made very good fruits ,despite the Rainy climate here in NJ.
The problem was the very bad infestation with fig mosaic virus,that made the tree die in about 5 years with all the good care I gave.
I am looking for this specific cultivar,in a healthy shape?
On the other hand,I can say looking to the pixies you listed here,that UCD Specimen look closer to Noire de Barbentane ,to me,because it has a neck!
Edit note:Even the leaves of Noire de Barbentane are closer to UC Davis Specimen,compared to the leaves of Burjasotte noire.?(see pix of plant above)
drivewayfarmer

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 

Vasile , how does Maltese Falcon compare to Kathleen's Black in your yard ?
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Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Maltese Falcon is just as good in the rain,and it is also wonderful in taste,but it dies faster from cold injury,if it doesn't have srious Winter protection.
Of course this year it is going to be just fine because I did give it serious Winter care,so I have a lot of expectation for next Season.
Kathleen Black is in the open only with 5 inches of mulch at the base,so we will see.!
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
First of all, great work using the search function  :)

Herman2 is in 7a if I remember correctly.  If you're really in 6b it would be worth a shot.  Let the plant outgrow a 5 gal pot and plant it in early Spring in full sun.  I wouldn't do that until you have a back-up plant in at least a 3 gal pot.  I also wouldn't do it until the one you want to plant has at least 2-3 summers of growth. 

If your sig is accurate, however, you're really in zone 4b - 5a and I wouldn't put any fig in the ground.  USDA zones are defined by minimum temperatures.  Sunset zones take a lot more in to account.  Find yours here

http://www.sunset.com/garden/climate-zones
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Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
eboone

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 

I am in SW PA, very close to where you live Chuck, I think we are both in USDA zone 6a; I am pretty sure that the closest 6b areas are right along the Mon River and the urban areas of Pittsburgh.  Historically we were always listed as 5b until they reclassified us few years back on the basis of global and urban warming.  Last winter for me it was again a 5b winter (-14 degrees maximum low).

Those Sunset zones might be accurate for California, but for our area they look like someone drew random lines and random conclusions across the map.  Their listing of us as the 'inland plains of Lake Erie and Lake Ontario' is silly both geographically and climatically, and they do not have our local ave winter lows accurate.  Our climate here in SW PA is significantly warmer in winter than in SW NY state, and we get 1/3 to 1/2 of the snowfall here that they do there or in NW PA north of I-80.
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Ed
Zone 6A - Southwest PA     
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Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid),  Col Littman's Black Cross.   And any cold hardy early fig.
eboone

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Hi Chuck,

Sorry for taking so long to respond, Christmas and all, you know.

If you look at this link to the USDA planting zone website - http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/ - there is a place ot enter your zip code and it will give you your zone.  I entered your zip code and it said 6a.  [NOTE TO FORUM: I am not a stalker, I have sent Chuck cuttings :) ]

You are probably pretty close to the 6b border but your temps are similar to mine, and consistant more with 6a, I think.
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Ed
Zone 6A - Southwest PA     
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Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid),  Col Littman's Black Cross.   And any cold hardy early fig.
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