Dan,

What you say is true about the V/P mix regarding air and it also provides good drainage to help minimize the occurence of root rot. I observed during the course of the prior experiment that the thinner cuttings tended to fail if left in V/P for just the reason you describe - if photosynthesis is not established early, food reserves are used up. The thicker cuttings were able to last longer in V/P because of a larger food reserve.

The soil mix I'm using is equal parts of pine bark mulch, turface, perlite and sphagnum peat moss. It drains really well and stays loose and airy. But you still need to be careful with watering and moisture retention for the little roots. It will be interesting to see the differences in root formation between the two media type. If I can successfully control the conditions with the soil, I will be able to eliminate the V/P step in my rooting process and eliminate a transplanting step. These should greatly increase my yield at this step of the propogating process (it was not as high as I would have liked previously).

Although it is very early in this experiment, and I am only comparing 2 cuttings at this time, you can see a definite difference in the health of the roots in the soil (supporting both Dan and my comments in the previous 2 posts). I'll be monitoring the results as the rest of the cuttings root and develop to see if this holds true with a larger sample. The attached pics taken this morning show the roots in V/P 9 days after the cutting developed roots (baggie method) and the roots in soil mix 7 days after the cutting developed roots (baggie method). Both cuttings were treated the same during the rooting stage and are of similar diameter and physical characteristics. Both were moved to the "nursery" in humid envoronment and put on thermostatically controlled heat mat set at 75 degrees. 

Amazing what a difference in just 2 days ... same 2 cuttings as previous post (the one in V/P I took without flash to reduce the reflection).

The info in post #100 about rooting after 76 days in baggie is encouraging in the sense that one should not give up even after 6 weeks of no roots (like I do) if there is no mold and the cutting still seem to be viable (& not dried up). I used to get impatient after 6 weeks but not recently when I started losing my well rooted and shooted plants and will be happy if rooting is delayed until early May so the newly rooted plants can thrive outside.

Ottawan,

I used to give up too early also - If you can hold back the mold some cuttings take a really long time and will root. The other option is to store them in the refrigerator before starting rooting (this helped them root faster and more consistently once they were brought into the heat/moisture).

At this point, 11 of 14 total cuttings have rooted (all baggie method) and were transplanted to the cups with either V/P or soil. Good root development is seen in all of the cuttings and no real difference between V/P and soil. The only difference between the 2 groups is that the soil ones seem to have more leafy growth. However, this is not likely a result from the different growing media. I will continue to monitor their growth over the next several weeks but I am not expecting to see much difference. That would mean, with proper moisture control, both growing media will produce similar results - this is a good finding in that any transplant effects resulting from the traditional V/P first then soil can be reduced and overall yields improved.

Steve,
it sounds good to me, i have always used perlite and just a tad bid not much soil and starting with the VDB sticks i used a little more soil than i usually do and even a little more with the most recent santa c dark sticks. Hope they keep doing well for you as always nice to follow your posts .

Interesting comparison related to the first Experiment. If you recall, it was observed that the 4 weeks of pre-chilling on cuttings that were entering dormancy benefited rooting results. They rooted in less time (when brought into heat/moisture) and more consistently.

I had 2 Sal's - EL cuttings taken last fall (thanks Marty) and it took a long time to root them (45 and 76 days). I recently got a batch of cuttings from the same tree that has been dormant: three of the cuttings have rooted already (16, 23 and 23 days).

If you recall, the experimental design did not allow me to determine if the benefit derived from the pre-chill or the dormancy. If we consider this recent comparison, it seems that it might be the dormancy providing the benefit. Come this fall, I will have to try to put this to the test.

Steve,
makes good sense to me as i go by what i have seen or done , so recently you have done this and came to your conclusion and it did not dawn on me but recently i took 2 cuttings from my VDB to experiment, mother tree went thru cold winter when i did this and both rooted i cheated perhaps with root gel but both showed roots in clear plastic cup in 30 days from the start. 
So i think you might be on to something.
I remember saying those Sals cuttings for me where always difficult to root but it never dawned on me a certai time of year might have gave better or shorter time results.
Now thats for that particular type, but i have also learned about 1 and possibly another that seem to root almost too easily for me no matter what time of year, i think you have of of them but thats going off subject and i wont ramble on about it. You certainly have helped a lot of folks all around.
Best Health
Martin

SteveNJ
What is the size of the Duncan Donut cups? From the looks they appear to be 16oz but looks could be deceiving.

Actually they are 24 oz. I'm a regular at DD and I bought a sleeve of them. I used a heated nail to melt drain holes in them. I thought about the 16 oz but the 24 oz are taller.

That (24oz) is the best size for the purpose because of its height and horizontal space taken. I will check with 'Tim Hortons' which have replaced 'Drunken Donuts' here.

Last 2 of the Sal's cuttings rooted. This batch had an average rooting time of 22 days compared to an average rooting time of 60 days from the batch in the fall. Certainly there is a clear benefit from rooting cuttings in the spring after they have been dormant.

SteveNJ
Last year I had similar experience. While bringing out 5 gallon pots of Bifara from the cold store in basement I dropped the pot and the 10" top end of the dormant plant broke off like carrot. I tried to root it and it rooted vigorously in 14 days! The I cut a couple of more intentionally and they rooted as fast.
So if someone wants to root cuttings from their own plants, I believe the cuttings taken just before dormancy break may be the easiest to root and it avoid keeping them inside too long and the fun begins outside early too.

I have heard others had similar experiences with taking cuttings before the break of dormancy. I would like to try this fall/winter to compare this effect verse the cold storage (or "cooling-off period" as some call it). I'll have to keep this in mind when I prune the trees before winter protection.

Hey Steve!
I took a pic of the little Bella here in Texas.  Great work on the experiment, very informative :)) Great practice too Im assuming!

Little guy is really fighting to grow. I'll be sending a potted one soon!

Cant wait!  It will go next to baby Bella :)) Like a big Bro, hahaha.

It's still early to do a full comparison between the soil verse V/P for the cuttings but I thought I would share the attached pics. I'm a convert now using exclusively soil for the cuttings after they put out roots. The roots have been growing like mad and even climbing right out of the cup on several of the cuttings.

I have begun potting some of the cuttings from this "mini-experiment". The objective was to compare if placing rooted cuttings in vermiculite/perlite (V/P) mix or soil mix (custom blend) had any influence on root development and later cutting success and growth. So far, after 11 cuttings rooted, and half placed in each media in 24oz cups - I haven't seen much difference. Both groups have produced extensive root systems with good root branching. The only difference is in watering methods - V/P drains faster and requires more watering; soil mix requires less watering because it retains more water (important to carefully control watering in this case so as not to cause root damage or rot).

I have begun potting these cuttings (all into 1 gallon containers with soil mix). In each case, I try to preserve the root ball intact so as not to damage the roots during transplanting. I have taken pictures and plant measurements for each before potting. Each is being potted 30 days after they first rooted (and were placed in their cups). So far 5 have been potted. After completion of potting all 11 I will post the results.

I attached 2 pictures of the most recent cuttings I potted (just before transplanting) showing the health of the plants - taken 30 days after roots emerged. One is in soil mix (CABT04) and one is in V/P (CABT05)

As a side note: I now prefer to go straight into soil instead of using the V/P step. I find that transplanting is easier since the soil and root ball hold together better, less frequent watering is required, and it is less of a shock to the cutting because the growing media is the same as when potted up. I have used the soil mix on about another dozen or so cuttings of various cultivars and they have all been successful so far. I'll post more details later at the end of this experiment.

The last of the cuttings from the "Cutting Media Mini-Experiment" is now potted-up into 1 gallon pot. I will follow-up with a more detailed write-up of the methods and results but for now here is a summary:

METHODS:
(a) All cuttings were Brown Turkey and rooted using the "baggie-method"
(b) After roots emerged, they were put into rooting media in 24oz cups
(c) The media was either equal parts vermiculite and perlite ("V/P") or equal parts pine bark mulch, turface, perlite and sphagnum peat moss ("soil")
(d) Cuttings were kept in the "nursery" at 75F and humidity 60-80RH
(e) a total of 10 cuttings were used in the experiment(5 in V/P and 5 in soil)
(f) the objective was to determine if there was any difference in the results as measured by visible root development and top growth

RESULTS:
(1) Overall measured characteristics were only negligibly different and not significant resulting in my conclusion that equivalent results can be obtained by either method
(2) Preference for one media or another should be based upon other factors related to the methods used. For example, lower occurrence of damage imparted by transplanting.
(3) Root development and root branching were similar between V/P and soil
(4) Root rot was not a factor when media moisture and watering are properly controlled (frequency of watering is different between the 2 media)
(5) Minimizing root disturbance and damage during potting-up is essential for ultimate success of the cutting and amount of early top-growth (damage during this process will set-back the cutting and retard growth for a period of time, in some cases will result in failure)
(6) The moisture retention of soil is higher than V/P so less frequent watering is required
(7) Potting-up is easier with those that were in soil because the entire rootball and media hold together better when removing from the cups - this resulted in less disturbance of roots
(8) If the cutting was producing top-growth at a good rate before potting-up, those in the soil continued this growth rate and were not retarded by the transplanting step when using soil (this is related to root disturbance an similarity in the media used in the cups and pots.
(9) The cuttings in V/P experienced a period of retarded growth following transplanting (again, related to disturbance of the roots and the integrity of the root/media ball)
(10) Measurements of top-growth were made while still in cups 30 days after they first produced roots and were planted in the cups - see below

Top-growth and branching:Both V/P and Soil cuttings averaged 1.2 branches and 5 leaves after 30 days.

Branch thickness: The Soil cuttings produced slightly thicker and longer branches (0.2in diameter and 3.4in length) than the V/P cuttings (0.18in diameter and 2.8in length). However, this is attributed to the thickness of the starting wood as found in the earlier "Rooting Experiment". The Soil cuttings averaged 0.56in diameter and the V/P cuttings averaged 0.39in diameter.

Greatest leaf size: The Soil cuttings had an average largest leaf size of 2.8in L and 2.6in W while the V/P cuttings had an average largest leaf size of 2.8in L and 2.7in W (not a significant difference).

So, I have concluded that there is no difference in results between the 2 cutting media types provided one adjusts the methods appropriately. My preference is for "soil" due to the lower occurrence of root damage during transplanting and the reduced watering requirement.

Steve,
overall of the soil mix as opposed to the v/p mix .
 Steve any other experiments you going to do perhaps next winter?
Hey how about rooting sticks in sphagnum moss in container, sticks in peat moss mesh pellets that expand in water to size, and baggie method perhaps to see which method does better for you if you have a long winter and get bored! I have used recently sphagnum, and peat pellets but did not compare to baggie method for time spent i just rooted them . Im basically done rooting things except for personal extra's just in case, so next winter you have lots of plants again!!!  ; )
Thanks for posting your experience im sure it helps folks or at least gives idea's .

Thanks Marty. Right now I am done rooting also. I have 2 stubborn sticks that haven't rooted yet, but after that I am done until fall pruning (Unless someone wants to donate a bunch of sticks for me to play with). I'm thinking of a few things to try in the fall/winter and your idea is one of them. Another would be to re-test the chilling vs. dormancy on the cuttings but that experiment would span a long time because I would need to wait until plants are truly dormant to harvest some of the wood. I'm always looking for suggestions for other projects for the fall.

Steve,
i say this with a smile, when i say done i mean im done for good. Just except for personal in case i want a double.
Hopefully sometime late fall i can send a little something for starters.

That would be very welcome Martin.

The fig craze will get you again, I'm certain of it.