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A newbies lamentation. Rooting in zone 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by potatochips101
What do you all think about using perlite in a ziplock bag? Would I have more chances of mold using the bag than if I used a clear plastic shoe box filled less than halfway up with perlite?
I'm short on space and still trying to keep things "simple". 


I tried this and ruined the cuttings, the bag filled with mold ASAP. And the perlite was not very damp at all! It is certainly the last and only time I try that method.

Thanks for the heads up about the perlite in the ziplock bag. Scratching that from my list of "things to try" right now. 

Funny thing is I did get my hands on some "guinea pig" cuttings and one out of four rooted and leafed out. 

I did find that some cuttings were more prone to mold than others and others were more prone to dehydrate. Some were easy to root but I think figs don't care to have their roots disturbed at all so, I've made note of that. 

I have three cuttings that I stuck in a one gallon pot because I was short on space and they are all growing together in that pot. I'm chicken to move them and figure I'll just let them hug up and love up each other through the winter and by sometime in the spring I'll consider whether it's worth my while to separate them. It's so nice to have a few successes and I don't want to make them unhappy.

 

Potatochips101,
Thanks for the reply.
The pre-rooting in sphagnum moss should be the easiest step in the rooting process.

The heat mat may have cooked the cuttings if the bags were placed directly on the mat. The ambient temperature around the cuttings need to be between 72 deg F and 78 deg F for fastest and healthiest root growth. With higher temperatures above 80 you will get faster mold growth and excessive drying of the peat moss.

The Long fibered moss needs to be damp, almost dry, water needs to be sqeezed out completely. It should be about as damp as a damp sponge or a damp wash cloth after being wrung out, lightly damp to the touch and no visible signs of moisture.  Cinnamon is actually untested and may do more harm than good in the rooting stage. No additional moisture is needed in the rooting stage if using Tupperware type containers or Zip lock freezer bags with air tight seals. Peroxide spray should only be used 1 or 2 times at most it actually affects the bark and lenticels.

The cuttings should be completely surrounded by the fluffed up Long fibered Sphagnum Moss and the bags should be inflated, completely sealed and only opened every 2 - 3 days to check for mold. They should be quickly inflated and resealed. The moss has anti fungal properties but it has to be touching the cuttings. The object is to keep the humidity inside the bag at 85% to 90% RH. By keeping the bag sealed (air tight) no additional moisture is need at this stage.

The bottom end of the cuttings should be cut just below a node, because the pith will die and create a hollow which will be a opening for microbes. If you are using a liquid rooting hormone it should be applied at the start of the rooting process and only on the cut bottom end of the cutting.

In the early stages of rooting and growth organic additives and fertilizers will introduce microbes and spores which may cause molding and rot on the cuttings. In this case remember the motto "Less is More".

Good Luck.

Thanks Pete. I will keep these pointers in mind next time around and will most likely leave well enough alone once I get to a stage were there is growth of roots and no growth of mold. 
What an adventure it's been. I think that I prefer rooting in the spring because I can do it outside and nature knows how to handle things better than I. 

I too am having major headaches and heartbreak, attached is a rotted Col de Dame cutting, ouch. I have also had major mold issues trying to root in long fiber spaghnum moss. Help!!!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafaelissimmo
I too am having major headaches and heartbreak, attached is a rotted Col de Dame cutting, ouch. I have also had major mold issues trying to root in long fiber spaghnum moss. Help!!!!


I have 4 varieties of cuttings that myself or my father have cut and stored. They root similar to each other. They do very well in perlite but rot in potting soil mixed with perlite. Other cuttings I have received have had mold issues despite the rooting media. Some got stuck in the mail during the holidays and some looked like they had been stored in a very wet environment.

I think that there are a lot of variables with cuttings but freshness and storage have a big influence in how successful rooting them will be.

one of the reason why i don't store my cuttings, and take my cuttings day before shipping out is that freshness counts. i don't know how USDA/UCD does it. but they send out so many cuttings and they look as if every one of them were cut right before shipping. 

some cuttings will just mold more easier than the others. but it's due to stuff that's hanging there around the leaf scar. or the cut on top and bottom are not clean cuts. two things i always do. 1) clean the leaf scar as much as possible. some cutting will not get completely cleaned off. and mold will keep come back. 2) unless the cut is very clean on top and bottom, i cut them again. bottom cut very close to last node, and top cut slanted to prevent water sitting on it. 

if mold keep comes back on same node, and if it's on top or bottom node, i cut that node off. 

rot is purely due to too much water. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet08
....sand is too heavy, and vermiculite holds too much water. ...... 


Ok Ill let Bill know that know that "bullet08" disapproves of his method that he developed over 12 years of fig farming next time I'm over there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet08
.....rot is purely due to too much water....


incorrect

another article on rooting... 1) humidity chamber, 2) bottom heat, 3) non organic rooting media (perlite, vermiculite, sand, rock wool) 4) light.

http://www.practicalwinery.com/mayjune99/rapidpropagation.htm

Rich who is Bill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafaelissimmo
Rich who is Bill?


Bill Muzychko

That's funny I just sent Bill an email!

I don't know if last year I had beginners luck or not. I followed advice from Robert Harper in using green moss. If you live in a northern latitude, the key, I truly believe, is to wait until the spring equinox. You are fighting nature when you start before. It is very difficult to wait but when you do you increase the chances of success. I didn't have to worry about lights, which helped a lot with expenses. I transferred them from the moss, (and I did learn that they must not get tangled roots) to one gallon pots, which I put in the tallest plastic bins I could find. I put these bins on the north side of my house. As the summer progressed I opened the lid of the bin a little more every week. I had success with black madiera with this method.

Advice about quick draining potting soil is good. I simply used 1-1 MG seed starting and perlite. The only thing I had trouble with was a few that failed to put out top growth. They did not rot and the roots were coming out the bottom of the pot, but no leaves. For this I will try using Keiki Power Pro Orchid Plant Cloning Paste as greenfig suggested in a different post.

I have found that the fig tree has some quality that bewitches it's owner. FMD mentioned on a previous post the sacrificing of a chicken. Will this increase the chances of success, or simply make you want to possess more fig trees? 

  • Rob

I think all of pete's advice is good.  My additional comments:

I would not use a heat mat, unless room is cold.  65-75 is fine.

I don't think the creepy crawlies you are seeing are the cause of a problem.  I think they are a symptom.  I think your cuttings had already started to give in to rot, then the creepy crawlies move in.  Fungus gnats will feed on living roots, but usually they start off on a dead cutting first, then move to live ones. 

I also agree with others' comments that it's likely too much water could be the culprit.  It's hard to keep the right balance when winter rooting in the northeast.  Indoor air is far too dry, but if you put it in a humidity bin, mold can be a problem due to lack of airflow.  So you have to put in a bin and keep it cracked, or you put it in a ziploc and open it every couple days, etc.  This way you have enough airflow to prevent stagnation issues, but humidity is still high enough. 

After you put a young cutting in a pot, it can be even harder to keep the right moisture balance.  The top of the soil can dry out, while the bottom or middle can be soaking wet, and it's hard to judge how much water to add.  I have resorted to misting in the past, which works pretty well, because that way there is much less temptation to overwater.  I used a 2 gallon mister, which is usually used for pesticide application.  But then last year I was too lazy, I just stuck plastic bags over the top of the pots, or put them in large bins. 

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