WillsC,
Thanks for sharing the updated progress pictures and info.
With your long season, you could probably air layer all the vertical branches to get new rooted plants before colder temperatures stop growth.

Pete,

Oh i'm sure you are right but what on earth would I do with 100 VDB's?  This week is air layer week, doing a bunch of them but not on the VDB.  

100 VdB's would be nice planted along the drive way, pick as you drive.

Want 100?  To you I will send them:)   For me I would view that driveway as room for 100 new varieties......

WillisC,

That is one very darned good idea.  I does look very cool, too.
As to a solution to the problem of too many airlayered plants, I believe you are familiar with Ebay.  Could you consider it a third crop?

Your implementation of something similar to the Japanese method is pretty nifty.  And I know you put a lot of thought into the plan.  I wonder if you considered just running a cable through the top of the vertical posts and using a drop strip of webbing with velcro loops attaching the verticals.  It would result in a lighter structure.  One feature I really like is that it would be so easy to winterize it here in Kentucky.  I have an abundance of oak leaves every fall.  It would be pretty easy to just blow them into a strip covering the trimmed figs, then cover with some carpet.

Charley,

VDB really is not in very great demand even though it is an excellent variety it is pretty common so Ebay would be saturated quite quickly.  If I could find a commercial source that wanted a few hundred VDB plants that would work I suppose.  That step over project as it stands now would probably yield 700 or so 8" cuttings?  


I'm not clear on what you mean about the support structure.  I did try a cable through the arms but it did not work well because of the need for braces. 

Well if ag regulations would allow it without all the paper work I would take you up on that offer, winterizing 100 might prove to be a challenge though I would like the look of my driveway.

I figure I will use all the cuttings in the smoker, I hear fig wood is good to smoke with. 

WillsC,

My thought is that a slightly different support arrangement could be the posts with just one wire at the top.  Drop a narrow webbing strap from that to the rebar.  Attach the vertical growth to that strap using velcro loops.  The cross arms and the PVC would not be necessary in that design.  My question about it is whether you considered that, more along what I have seen of the Japanese method, and if you thought it would not work for your situation.

Charley,

Gotcha.  The thing is and it may not be readily apparent in the pictures as I am not the worlds best photographer lol is the verticals come off the horizontal trunk alternating from right side to left side.  So one lateral goes toward the screen and the next one goes away from the screen.  It allows the laterals to get the maximum light without shading each other.  In the configuration you suggest I would not be able to have as many laterals growing or if I did they would be very crowded.  Basically the laterals form a V so two angled walls.  If I could have I would have made the V even wider at perhaps 5 feet but that ship has sailed....should have planted them another 18" further from the pool wall.  This will work though.  

As it is I modified the Japanese style and have closer spaced laterals.  The reason for it is our exceptionally long growing season.  If I had spaced the laterals as far apart as the Japanese do I would end up with laterals 20 feet tall in one season and would be unable to protect them from the wind.  It is all experimentation and guess work.  I may not have spaced the laterals close enough as it is.....some of those lateral uprights are now topping 9' and we still have 3-4 months of growing season left.  Things here do not turn cold, well "Florida cold" lol till January.  

Wills:

Thanks for the update. I'm going to try that here outdoors as a good way to allow winter protection. If I plant any in-ground in the greenhouse I'll also use your method.

When you have an evaluation of varieties please consider posting on fruits and orchards as well as here.

WillsC,

Thanks for the additional helpful information.  As you are useing that V shape, the PVC is necessary to provide some degree of horizontal support.

Since I'm in Kentucky with a much shorter growing season, and would use something to have growth in completely vertical orientation because of location, can you suggest what the spacing should be for the verticals?

Someone asked earlier in the thread about pinching to control the height.  Do you have any thoughts or plans to try that?  I'm asking because I have very limited knowledge of fig growing and don't fully understand how different methods affect yield.  If I were to pinch, it would not be for purposes of creating a branched tree for next season but for yield purposes, if that would happen.  Because of winter die back I would be cutting the verticals back as you plan to do.

Charley,

While you don't have to use the V shape I don't see any reason not to unless you wanted to just grow them up a wall or something.  I don't feel qualified to give recommendations on spacing as this is new to me.  I believe the Japanese use 12"-18" between verticals on the same side so that would mean there is a lateral every 9" right left right left.  I have also seen pictures from Japan of laterals spaced much further apart.....so basically just have to guess and experiment and watch what happens and adjust from there. 

I am a great proponent of pinching but in this case with this system it creates problems.  As soon as you pinch out that apical bud the lateral will respond by firing off the side buds in an effort to get a leader back.  Once that happens you will spend the rest of the season removing 1000 side branches that keep forming.   As I mentioned earlier......so far growing this way none of the myriad of laterals has made a branch....they are just 6'-9' straight fig laden whips.  Now you might say ok so who cares if there are branches?  Well I think the branches would be a shading problem.......all that mass of branches would also give the wind something to grab on to and push against.  The branches would grow toward the screening which I don't want and last the branches would ruin the look of the plant and I think it looks cool like it is.  

Thanks for the help with the good information.  I really appreciate you going over the thought process that you followed.  Since you have so many of the verticals anyway, it probably makes no sense to increase the shade with branches that are going to be removed at the end of the season.

The v system is much more efficient.  It allow maximum light into the canopy and keep things even (assuming you oriented them properly ie with the line of the sun path).  If they aligned with the sun path perpendicularly then you will have un even ripening from side to side where the east side will tend to ripen faster and the west side will tend to have less sugars.  

I would be really interested to see this done with something like col de dama, I bet you could get a really high yield doing this.

I can believe the V system will give higher yields as there are more verticals.

However I'm not as certain about other parts of the comparison.  The leaves on the upper side of the slanted verticals will always shade the lower side.

In my case I need to have a somewhat flat form espallier, as if grown against a wall.  It could be in a garden bed adjacent to an open fence.

Charley,

There is always shading but Chivas is right that angled it reduces the shading as the plant takes up a larger foot print.  There is no reason not to grow it the way you describe, it will work fine.

When using the v system, it may be advisable also to trim a few lower leaves for air flow, but I doubt you would need to take many, if they are constantly shaded, 1 or 2 from the bottom should not be an issue and would free up some resources for the tree.  

An example is in greenhouse vegetable production, the most common way to grow tomatoes is on a v system.  It works very well provided ample spacing between the two plants in given to maximize light penetration.  This of course is different since tomatoes are annual crops and figs are perennial, tomatoes growing like this will end up get 2-3 leaves taken from the bottom each week depending on weather and variety etc.  As far as less sugars and uneven ripening it has been proven in vineyards and apple orchards that having them go in the correct orientation of the sun will reduce variances and make for more uniform crops, I believe in Napa valley it depends which part of the valley you are in having your rows going east to west or north to south is advantageous but for the most part east to west was shown to be more beneficial.  In northern places like canada, spindle apple trees have also shown to be more uniform in crops and sugars/ripening time when going east to west with the rows.  The reason for this is the sun intensity and fruit temperature, morning sun tends to get more energy out and the fruit warms up more quickly given places for sugars and sap to flow sooner than the shaded side which will have cooler fruit temperatures and then by the time afternoon sun hits it it has lagged behind with fruit temperature and this is what will cause delayed ripening and lower sugars.  Sap will always flow to the warmer part of a plant/tree before the cooler parts, this is why cooler night time temperatures are excellent for fruit sizing as they are where the sugars go as temperatures drop first, followed by the stem of the plant of tree and lastly the leaves.   Sorry if i rambled on here a bit but I thought maybe I should explain my previous statement a bit.

WillsC,

If it's not too much to ask would you post an update this fall?  

I'm curious, did your verticals continue to grow above 9'?  Did the verticals continue to fruit?  How was your harvest?

Thanks!

Don,

Isn't that a coincidence....just this morning I posted an update to it on Rafed's facebook fig forum.  Sure let me write one up.  

 Thanks for sharing such a cool way to prune/train figs. Do any of you experienced growers have an opinion if this method would work well in extreme temperatures of over 110F. I am thinking about providing a little afternoon shade (10%) next summer in the extreme heat, any opinions?

Wow, great job Wills looks amazing.