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Be Careful What You wish For...

You may already have it!  Jon's Encanto Farms Varietal Page (which is hard to locate on his site, and he needs to fix ...another topic) will give you all the synonyms for your desired fig!  I was sort of shocked this morning.  I was updating my spreadsheet with information about my new acquisitions and discovered I already have the same thing I just purchased under a synonym!

I'm not saying what this varietal is because I don't wish to upset anyone.  I'm happy!  This is simply a warning about due diligence!  Check for synonyms before you empty your pockets!

Suzi with smiles!!

Thank you Suzi, got it bookmarked now. alot of of info there.

Jon's F4F [Ficus carica] fig_DB is the best one on this good planet Earth!
Jon's mantra has always been to 'gather' (AS-IS...) fig_information from other sources.
Please ENJOY!

http://figs4fun.com/Varieties.html

I know before i joined i would use yahoo search for info and i seen alot of figs4fun threds pop up in the search. now im here and love it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzi
 Jon's Encanto Farms Varietal Page (which is hard to locate on his site, and he needs to fix ...another topic)


Suzi, he's got that as a direct link off of the main page!  If you use 
http://figs4fun.com
as the "main page" (that's where I always start), then the forums are the topmost link, and the varieties pages are the second link from the top.  There are other links there that are really helpful as well.  The site is way more than just the discussion forums.

By the way, be aware that some of the things listed there as "synonyms" are not necessarily the same variety, even (apparently) in Jon's own opinion, based on things I've seen him write in forums that contradicts some of those synonym links.  Some of the synonym links in those pages may be old, or maybe are things that he just doesn't maintain closely  (it'd be a huge job to do that maintenance, so who can blame him?).  Plus it's often a matter of widely differing opinion among the experts for whether two cultivars are really "the same" or not.  (Witness the discussions about Sal's EL/Gene, and Hardy Chicago... or Sal's Corleone and Sicilian Black, or Petit Negri and Ischia Black).  So if you want to do due diligence, you might have to look further than those specific Varieties pages to know whether two similar varieties are the same or not.  (For an example, look in those pages under Angelique and Madelaine Des Deux Saisons... one of those lists the other as a synonym, yet in various postings Jon refers to them as different varieties, both of which he keeps in his collection).  

Lastly, let me say emphatically that I'm not criticizing Jon in this (nor his Varieties pages)... quite the opposite!  I think those Varieties pages that he keeps are a wonderful resource, and I'm really grateful that he has put them together, and I think he does a wonderful job of continually improving them!  And further, the pictures and descriptive information there are an amazing resource... I'm so grateful that he put all that together as a reference resource!  I'm just pointing out that they're not necessarily definitive about things like synonyms / cultivar boundaries, nor necessarily even up-to-date about his own very well-founded opinions about cultivar distinctions.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5 

<< Edit:  the UCD pages, which Jon also links from that main page, include somewhere on them a chart showing genetic analysis of many of the varieties that we discuss here... it shows which are genetically very close, for example. But it's also limited by how current it can be kept... that is expensive in terms of human effort to keep updating.>>

This was not meant to be a criticism of Jon's site.  It was meant to help those who wish to pay bank for an off name that is a common fig.  Just do the diligence!  That's all, with smiles.... Suzi

I agree Suzi... "with smiles" from me too!  :-)   I didn't think you're criticizing either, but in the interest of pointing out all of the wonderful resources available on this site, I wanted to add a link to what I think of as the main page or top page for the site:
http://figs4fun.com

Starting from there, there is a wealth of great information on the site, so i wanted to share that as a navigation tip.  (And maybe got carried away about the synonym / cultivar discussion... it can be maddening at times, but great fun anyway!).

Again, with smiles toward you and the community.  :-)

Mike

Re: Synonyms

They are ALL taken from a source somewhere. As I find time I am adding the links to the original sources, though often the material under "Description" came from the same source as the synonym info.

Having said that, I do not believe that they are all valid synonyms, but I also am not going to take responsibility for "cleaning" them up, as that would only be one more opinion, not anything close to a true and official list.

Anytime I sell plants and cuttings, my only claim is that they will be true to the pictures figs in the Figs 4 Fun Collection, and only if grown in San Diego. There simply is no other way. I cannot guarantee that any trees/cuttings I have received were correctly labeled, and I definitely know they look different when grown at different locations under different conditions. Short of DNA analysis, you cannot be certain that two trees are the same, and even when the DNA is "the same", there still seem to be differences. If you cannot be sure from DNA, then trying to figure out if 2 synonyms are indeed that same tree by visual observation only is not going to happen. Just because one source says they are the same does not keep me from collecting both, and seeing what they do under similar conditions. That was the impetus behind collecting dozens of Celestes and seeing if they were really all the same. They were (by DNA) but still have differences.

Jon, I am astounded at the various names of varietals.  Some sound so sexy, and then you find out it's AKA...................  This is why we should all do the due diligence prior to purchase!  We all might have that AKA in our yard.  But we never knew!

Your site, and it's the only one I know of, truly points it all out!  I love it!!

Suzi

Jon it may not be 100% but its a great guide for newbies to figs like myself. I have learned more in the last week on here than in over several months of just searching the net.

I went ahead and printed out the kinds i got. and the kinds i want and put the pages in a binder for quick referance. nothihg on MvsB or RdB but i am sure in time. if i come upon any info in regards to those without info i will email the link to sombody who probly Jon.

Jon's list is as comprehensive as any list can be.
If I find out I have duplicates with different names, it just means I have more items to pass on to others who have neither.

Yes, Jon's site is really an incredible resource!  Having the photos attached to the descriptions and names really makes it!  (Not to mention all the other great stuff on this site).

Interesting the way discussions about cultivar distinctions (or not) keeps cropping up on here.  There's another one going on over at
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/most-desirable-fig-variety-6092425?trail=100      
(down around post #60 and below... a few interesting posts about the nature of cultivar differentiation).

How different the business of cultivar naming is for figs compared with roses... with a couple of rather broadly recognized cultivar "authorities" being recognized as such by a broad cross section of rose growers.  Maybe it's because there's so much money in roses?  Or maybe it's because figs have such a weird sex life.  With roses, the breeder knows exactly what they've bred and gets the "naming" rights.  The pathway to distribution is quick and widespread.  So different from the way these wonderfully ancient and primal fig trees are!

Mike


I've seen that link and never clicked on it, shame on me.  More fig info to digest.

I'm pretty sure it was Jon who told us that if he followed the trail of synonyms he could prove that a dark fig was identical to a light fig.

The DNA analysis doesn't cover enough of the fig genome to tell if any 2 figs are really identical or not.

Quote:
The DNA analysis doesn't cover enough of the fig genome to tell if any 2 figs are really identical or not.


But then, I'm not sure that ANY two distinct trees can be said to be identical.  By definition, it would seem not.    :-)

I do get your point though Bob.  

Mike

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