DesertDance
Registered:1247674606 Posts: 4,518
Posted 1357227851
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#51
I saved that list to my computer. Loved all the descriptions and where the figs originated from. Been having computer issues lately, and Jon's PDF crashed my computer (not his fault), but the text version works great! Thanks! Suzi
__________________ Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!" Wish List: I wish all of you happy fig collecting! My wishes have been fulfilled!
Pattee
Registered:1345750012 Posts: 1,417
Posted 1357231223
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#52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BronxFigs Pete... Within a few weeks after being bit by the Fig "Bug", I learned about the Belleclare Fig Nursery. I drove out to see what all the fuss was. Unfortunately, I got to see only the final days of what must have been a a very extensive collection of exotic fig varieties. They closed for good within the next weeks after my visit. The owners were very nice to me, an obvious novice, but Chris told me everything I needed to know about growing a fig tree in a container, and how to keep it alive over the winter. I wish I had known about the nursery sooner. After only one visit, I knew by instinct, that I would've been a frequent visitor. The one tree that I can still picture in my mind is the 4-in-one, pleached/braided fig tree, growing four different varieties on one tree. I hope the owners are enjoying their retirement. They are missed. FrankEDIT: Due to my age, and probably some pre-senility, the 4-in-one braided tree was actually a 3-in-one braided tree. A good forum member contacted me to provide more accurate information, and informed me that many Belleclare trees are still alive and kickin'. Thanks, HJ for the help. F
Frank, I am soo happy to hear that info about the BC trees being alive and kicking ! I too am hoping that some of those varieties will become available again for those of us that sadly missed that wonderful place by. All those varieties !! Wouldn't it be fantastic to be able to collect many of those ?!!
__________________ 7a & 9b ►I assume all my figs carry FMV ◄ Seeking : Italian 376,395 , Galicia Negra, Negretta,UNK Pastilliere ,Pananas Purple, Malta Blk+purple/red, Italian + Calabrian UNK's , Catanzaro, Malone, Sucrette(Baud) "We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?" - Gandhi
nypd5229
Registered:1290455653 Posts: 1,903
Posted 1357231858
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#53
Approx.18 months ago there was one for sale on Craigslist from LI. I believe the person lived basically around the corner from the old nursery spot. Wanted about 8 for it if memory serves right.
__________________ Dominick
Zone 6a-MA
Pattee
Registered:1345750012 Posts: 1,417
Posted 1357233495
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#54
Dominick, I'll have to watch Craigs list ! Thanks !
__________________ 7a & 9b ►I assume all my figs carry FMV ◄ Seeking : Italian 376,395 , Galicia Negra, Negretta,UNK Pastilliere ,Pananas Purple, Malta Blk+purple/red, Italian + Calabrian UNK's , Catanzaro, Malone, Sucrette(Baud) "We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?" - Gandhi
71GTO
Registered:1290311646 Posts: 1,002
Posted 1357237015
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#55
Dom, I remember that one it was big. He wanted a lot for the trees he had.
__________________ NJ z7a
Wish list :
nypd5229
Registered:1290455653 Posts: 1,903
Posted 1357239426
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#56
Yeah LOL- he knew what he had. I bet he got close to what he was asking for. The closing of the nursery only boosted their value.
__________________ Dominick
Zone 6a-MA
victor
Registered:1336352473 Posts: 81
Posted 1357288148
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#57
THANK YOU,i have a lot of collecting to do,but now i have a list.
karima
Registered:1356601201 Posts: 49
Posted 1357298420
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#58
Dear all figs lover, i'm new to figs and from Malaysia where the climate is hot and humid. Very interesting to know that figs also can grow in tropical area. Unfortunately, we don't have nursery like Belleclare here.
__________________ wish list Violeta, LD'A, Côtio, Bacorinho, Maltese Beauty, Maltese Falcon, Genovese Nero, Galicia Negra
gorgi
Registered:1188888396 Posts: 2,864
Posted 1357319937
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#59
Thanks Leon for pointing out the BelleClare-MarthaStewad U-Tube video. I had heard of it for a very long time ago, but I think that actually this was my 1st time watching it! I wonder if that 'weeping-fig' shown is the same as the 'Black Weeper' one that a fig forum member (I think fignut?), a while back had asked about. Thanks also Leon for helping me with the Belleclare fig-list. I was lucky enough to visit the BC fig-nursery just before they closed. Currently, I own quite a few specimens from their 'unique' name fig selection. Some I bought directly from my visit [e.g., the (famous) Sal(C) - BC.31 and (less famous sister) FdCV - BC.95]. Some others, I acquired from reputable fig people [e.g., BC.39, which IMO is just another (small leaf) cousin of HC]. I also hope to still acquire some more rare BC figs too... Here is a couple of 'happy' (fuzzy/cell-phone) pics of me with the DiPaola brothers, Chris (on my left) and Bill (on my right) - during my visit in 2006.
Attached Images
GM_Belleclare1_Oct2006.jpg (57.96 KB, 55 views)
GM_Belleclare2_Oct2006.jpg (58.51 KB, 42 views)
__________________ George, NJ_z7a.
slingha
Registered:1339292965 Posts: 656
Posted 1357320156
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#60
I had heard that their trees were uber-expensive. I can only imagine what these mother trees would command now.
Pattee
Registered:1345750012 Posts: 1,417
Posted 1357338038
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#61
My hope is that some of the owners of those wonderful trees will be willing to sell or gift cuttings . I only have one BelleClare variant so far . I would definitely be willing to pay for cuttings of those BC trees . I would love to be able to have a collection of BC figs eventually. I am so sorry I came to figs so long after BC closed. If anyone has any they'd be willing to sell/share , please pm me !
__________________ 7a & 9b ►I assume all my figs carry FMV ◄ Seeking : Italian 376,395 , Galicia Negra, Negretta,UNK Pastilliere ,Pananas Purple, Malta Blk+purple/red, Italian + Calabrian UNK's , Catanzaro, Malone, Sucrette(Baud) "We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?" - Gandhi
hungryjack
Registered:1313447992 Posts: 518
Posted 1357342310
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#62
Trees were "expensive" at Belleclare, a 4-5 year old fig tree would be priced at $495-695, some even more, some not for sale at any price.
So to see one of these trees today, 8-10+ years older with a resell price of $800 or more, although "expensive" for a single tree to many, considering the rarity and age of such a specimen, many would consider the price a bargain.
Even the old sales records indicate they were charging $149-199 for 3 year old trees in the very early 90's, before they became nationally known.
Actual mother trees from the nursery, the actual trees they used to propagate cuttings from, some still exist, they are around 20 years old or more, couple closer to 30 years of age. Atreano, Petite Negre, San Pietro, Pops Purple, White Barese, Gialina, and others still survive and flourish to this day. I would guess there are several hundred "first generation" trees that still exist, trees that were propagated from the mothers and sold to customers.
I would call trees propagated from these trees as "second generation" provenance can get murky and there might be a thousand or more of these and potentially "third, fourth, fifth ...." generation trees. Guessing, I would think about 60-70% of the Belleclare list might exist in "first generation" trees. We might have to do a Belleclare variety head count one of these days :-)
__________________ Big Apple/Fig, New York 6B
hungryjack
Registered:1313447992 Posts: 518
Posted 1357344019
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#63
Belleclare Numbering Changed over time, earlier lists show a different BC # for many varieties.
See pictures below from an early Belleclare list, you can see how they differ from the "final list" Also, the list was NEVER complete, many varieties that Belleclare sold were never listed, some of their most exclusive varieties fit into this category.
__________________ Big Apple/Fig, New York 6B
Pattee
Registered:1345750012 Posts: 1,417
Posted 1357344176
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#64
Wouldn't that be fantastic - having a Belleclare head count . Maybe we should start that ? I love the old price tags !! The lore connected to them would also be priceless. Too much to ask ? :))
__________________ 7a & 9b ►I assume all my figs carry FMV ◄ Seeking : Italian 376,395 , Galicia Negra, Negretta,UNK Pastilliere ,Pananas Purple, Malta Blk+purple/red, Italian + Calabrian UNK's , Catanzaro, Malone, Sucrette(Baud) "We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?" - Gandhi
Dieseler
Registered:1215735852 Posts: 8,252
Posted 1357345202
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#65
HungryJack thanks for posting that . I still look for an airlayer off the #93 that someone can prove they actually bought from Belleclare and not hearsay for a trade. Yes im picky as been mentioned in past when i turned several down.
BronxFigs
Registered:1333154764 Posts: 1,864
Posted 1357345676
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#66
Very interesting and nostalgic thread. It's always nice to read about the comments that are made about the Belleclare Fig Nursery. For sheer variety, no other nursery selling figs comes close to the Belleclare boys. Belleclare has burned it's mark deep into the world of fig collectors, and I'm sure will have a long legacy because of the rare and obscure, ethnic figs that they sold. Chris and Bill....do you see what you started! Frank
__________________ Bronx, NYC Zone-7
Pattee
Registered:1345750012 Posts: 1,417
Posted 1357346598
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#67
HungryJack thanks so much . Really makes me sad to see what I missed . I do agree Martin that proving the provenance is important .
__________________ 7a & 9b ►I assume all my figs carry FMV ◄ Seeking : Italian 376,395 , Galicia Negra, Negretta,UNK Pastilliere ,Pananas Purple, Malta Blk+purple/red, Italian + Calabrian UNK's , Catanzaro, Malone, Sucrette(Baud) "We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?" - Gandhi
hungryjack
Registered:1313447992 Posts: 518
Posted 1357349544
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#68
Belleclare Nursery Those price tags are from a couple of trees I purchased from a collector a few years ago. He saved them from his purchase at Belleclare.
They were easily accessible for me, so I took a picture, I have many more price tags from Belleclare. I guess when people paid allot of money for the tree, they liked to save the "proof" I have a considerable amount of ephemera from the Belleclare Nursery.
Below are some photographs from the Belleclare archives, photos were taken by Chris Dipaola. There are thousands of photographs, these are just a few that were handy for me to photograph right now, notice the heavy use of lime, enjoy.This photograph was identified by Chris as being a Pop's Purple
__________________ Big Apple/Fig, New York 6B
hungryjack
Registered:1313447992 Posts: 518
Posted 1357352622
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#69
Found a good one Was putting away some of the photographs and came across the first Belleclare Fig Tree list, 2 pages with 14 fig varieties.
This copy has Chris' hand written notes on it, which include the history of Hardy Chicago, how it arrived in the US and traveled from New York to Chicago.
__________________ Big Apple/Fig, New York 6B
pitangadiego
Moderator
Registered:1188871011 Posts: 5,447
Posted 1357356619
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#70
See this thread as well.
__________________ Encanto Farms Nursery
http://encantofarms.com
http://figs4fun.com
http://webebananas.com
"pitangadiego" everywhere
gorgi
Registered:1188888396 Posts: 2,864
Posted 1357578424
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#71
@hungry(fig)jack: Thanks for showing your old nostalgic documents from Belleclare. I still do have a (faded) label from my Sal(C) ... (will post a pic later). I had bought their last two starters before they closed, one for me and one for a famous fig friend. I bet that 75+% of all Sal(C)'s that you all FF members have, can be back-traced from those two starters by twigs that were later given/traded/sold. One comment/question: Speaking for myself, I am more interested in those "unique" named figs that were ONLY available from Belleclare; e.g., Sal(C) and Popp's Purple. I give less importance for the more common names available 'elsewhere'; e.g., PN, Celeste. Chris sold most of the mother trees at closing time. I did see one marked 'sold' for Martha Steward (who else?) for $400+. I think it was his 'Der Grossen, originally from the Graz clock-tower area, Austria'. Christ did keep some of his mother fig trees just for himself to enjoy in his retirement (e.g., Malta Black - he showed it to me - hidden in his back yard). And I am sure that he kept his father's (very sentimental) fig tree - aka., Popp's Purple, too ...
__________________ George, NJ_z7a.
Pattee
Registered:1345750012 Posts: 1,417
Posted 1357581423
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#72
George you are so right about the "unique" named figs that were only available to BC. Those are most desireable for me too. As I am collecting , I find the "neighborhood" figs to be more interesting , better tasting according to owners ( mine are tiny), time tested and of course have a wonderful history to boot ! The whole package ! The more readily available varieties , even though sold by BC were not the main interest for me either.
__________________ 7a & 9b ►I assume all my figs carry FMV ◄ Seeking : Italian 376,395 , Galicia Negra, Negretta,UNK Pastilliere ,Pananas Purple, Malta Blk+purple/red, Italian + Calabrian UNK's , Catanzaro, Malone, Sucrette(Baud) "We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?" - Gandhi
saxonfig
Registered:1258080612 Posts: 1,370
Posted 1357584675
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#73
@ hungryjack. Great info. Thank you for posting. I have been "studying" some of Belleclare's old fig lists recently and learning a lot just from the list alone. I greatly appreciate how they tried to give some description/info with each variety listed. It can be frustrating to see the name of a fig on a list that you've never heard of and there is no description with it. There are a few on their list that I would really like to try. I'm considering just starting a thread on "looking for Belleclare varieties" etc. Thanks again to everyone who is posting additional info on some of the lesser known varieties. Great thread. I look forward to the thread on "Belleclare varieties head count" :-) .
__________________Fig Well An d Prosper! Bill - SW KY. Zone 6b. 36.5N I'm fruitnut on ebay.
hungryjack
Registered:1313447992 Posts: 518
Posted 1357608478
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#74
Glad you enjoyed some of the documents I posted.
I have allot more to dig through and will hopefully be able to organize most of it this winter.
I think you are making a large assumption on what happened to the mother trees, based on what you might on saw on your one visit to Belleclare at closing time. Just because you didn't see the mother trees, does not mean they were sold, that is an assumption on your part, and I will leave it at that. Figgies don't give up their babies that easily :-) And there was more than what was in his small backyard. There was actually TWO "pop's trees" two different varieties, pops purple was one. It still alive and well.
According to Chris, Martha purchased 25 trees from him after the filming of the show, so potentially Martha has some unique specimens, maybe she will trade cuttings, lol :-) I'm off to China for a couple of weeks on business, will try to post more when I return. Time permitting on this trip, I might make a visit to see what is supposedly the oldest fig tree in the world, 500+ years. The single tree takes up an entire acre of land.
__________________ Big Apple/Fig, New York 6B
Dieseler
Registered:1215735852 Posts: 8,252
Posted 1357609305
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#75
Hmm HungryJack i wonder if Martha has Belleclare #93 and would be willing to make a trade airlayer for airlayer. Might even let her peak at our family spaghetti gravy recipe. Wait cant let her peak theres only a few living left in family that know it and its in our heads ! Oh Martha are you around ? - chuckles. Wouldn't that be a kick ?
Pattee
Registered:1345750012 Posts: 1,417
Posted 1357610057
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#76
Pictures of that tree Jack would be awesome !! Is that permitted ?
__________________ 7a & 9b ►I assume all my figs carry FMV ◄ Seeking : Italian 376,395 , Galicia Negra, Negretta,UNK Pastilliere ,Pananas Purple, Malta Blk+purple/red, Italian + Calabrian UNK's , Catanzaro, Malone, Sucrette(Baud) "We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?" - Gandhi
hungryjack
Registered:1313447992 Posts: 518
Posted 1357611369
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#77
The tree is in a remote area of China, western part, near the border with Afghanistan, lives at an altitude of 4800 feet and is "documented" in historical records to be 500+ years old.
Currently winter time now, so tree is obviously dormant. Pictures are allowed, as its a popular local tourist attraction, supposedly 50,000 people a year visit it. They claim the tree produces around 30,000 figs a year. Fruit is yellow and flattish in shape.
__________________ Big Apple/Fig, New York 6B
Pattee
Registered:1345750012 Posts: 1,417
Posted 1357611850
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#78
Mind boggling ! Have a great trip .
__________________ 7a & 9b ►I assume all my figs carry FMV ◄ Seeking : Italian 376,395 , Galicia Negra, Negretta,UNK Pastilliere ,Pananas Purple, Malta Blk+purple/red, Italian + Calabrian UNK's , Catanzaro, Malone, Sucrette(Baud) "We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?" - Gandhi
hungryjack
Registered:1313447992 Posts: 518
Posted 1357617340
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#79
Martin,
Martha doesn't do air layers, cuttings only, lol.
I wonder if her trees are still alive. I know they had a problem with them several years after buying them, Chris told me the story. They transplanted them into white containers and Chris felt this was the problem, roots were too cool, and the trees weren't as happy.
I wonder if the caretaker for Martha's garden has a facebook page or some other way to interact with the public. Would be interesting to find out if the trees are still at her place in CT and what varieties are left.
Next time I speak to Chris, I will see if he remembers what she had purchased. He mentioned she had wanted one of his Petite Negre's but he had refused to sell that particular tree to her.
I don't have #93, sorry.
__________________ Big Apple/Fig, New York 6B
leon_edmond
Registered:1188903453 Posts: 923
Posted 1357619444
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#80
HungryJack: I am very curious about Pop's Weeping Italian Everbearing tree. The one that was loaded with figs in the video. Do you know if this is the one that is referred to as "Popp's Purple"? Also, do you have any information on the Santorini Aspra Syka Fig? Thank you, Leon
bullet08
Registered:1284496248 Posts: 6,920
Posted 1357646259
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#81
hmm.. maybe i'll write an email to martha and see if she replies. maybe invite her to this forum.. tell her how the fig is becoming fruit of the future.. it's way to reach out to more people out there.. wait.. that migh flood this forum.
__________________ Pete Durham, NC Zone 7b "don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill "the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher ***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. ***** ***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****