Visiting a neighbour, I noticed a vine like berry with no thorns, and asked what was...like all giving gardner, he started pulling a branch off for me, while telling me the story... a guy who travel to N. California, every summer got berries from a farmer and started selling 'special pies' from these special berries...then he got plants and started a big berry planting and more pies... Not sure if it is a tale, or not, but I got my branch and will make it root in many others... It is a strain of Boysenberry... thornless. I feel lucky!