You raise a good point although I haven't seen Dausername1 or any other known scammer selling BB10 cuttings on eBay. Other than that specific case, however, all the other BB10 cuttings have Dan as their provenance. Surely, no one would suggest that cuttings sold by Wills or by Dave or by Brian or by Joe or by any other known and trusted seller is any less worthy a cutting. To do so would put the question to any other cultivar cuttings sold by Harvey on figaholics.com or James on figcuttings.com or any other reputable seller of long known and pedigree varieties... One of our most respected forum members, KK sells Black Madeira plants and cuttings of the highest quality and yet the provenance of Black Madeira does not have at its root Keith... no one would be so short sighted as to suggest that Keith's Black Madeira doesn't have staying power...  

As another example.... we all know where Ponte Tresa came from.... if you are offered Ponte Tresa from a known and respected forum member and ebay seller, are you going to say that you refuse that Ponte Tresa or that you beieve that that Ponte Tresa, once in your hands, will devalue and become unpalatable to your friends becasue you are now the source of said Ponte Tresa?

Further to the point, all Cravens Craving plants and cuttings would become of zero value unless they were sold and provided by the old Portuguese fisherman who is the sole provenance for that fig and the source of Padsfan's plant and cuttings. I don't think anyone is rejecting the Cravens cuttings on eBay as being worthless because they came from padsfan or that anyone else that now has the cravens has a variety that lacks staying power....

People are sheeple! You can take an identical pair of blue jeans and put a MEK label on one and a wrangler label on the other and get two different prices, and to take it one step further you can put holes in one pair change the label and get even more money it is just the way it works.Dans cuttings will always bring more money.

I agree that if you grow your cuttings that were bought from Dan and decide to sell  the resulting plants on ebay at the same time that Dan decides to sell BB10 plants he grew from cuttings from his own tree, Dan is likely to get more for his plants than you will get for yours.... After all, anyone buying yours is not buying from Dan even though they are buying a BB10 whose provenance is Dan. There is no difference in anyone buying a Wills air layer on eBay for $393 or someone buying a BB10 air layer from you  on eBay for $393. Both plants have Dan in their provenance regardless of the path that they took to get to eBay. Anyone buying BB10 from Wills or Dave or Brian or Joe or you are getting the same variety and the same provenance.... You and Dave and Wills and Joe and Brian have the same plant and the same privilege to say your plants have Dan as the provenance of their BB10 plant. I guess that even Dan, upon selling cuttings from any other plant other than the original hidden and unknown mother source plant, can only claim himself, Dan, as the provenance of that plant material....  Your profile says your hobby is collecting rare fig varieties, I suggest that none of your rare fig varieties suffer in value from not having originated from the original source tree located in outer Idontknowwhereia....

Grant... Idontknowwhereia refers not to whom you bought it from but rather the original location of the original Mother plant and to the simple fact that it is very difficult to know where the ORIGINAL mother plant for any of the rare varieties was located... Sure, we know where the Ponte Tresa came from but my Ponte Tresa didn't get shipped to me from Italy... I acquired it from a very well known and reputable forum member. My BM didn't come from Idontknowehereia because we don't know where the original Idontknowwhereia is, it came from another well known and reputable forum member who sells BM on eBay. Similarly, I fully expect that you are as careful at documenting the source of your plants as I am and neither of us acquire our plants from Idontknowhereia becasue we don't know where that is. Can anyone point to the source tree for Ischia Black? If I buy Ischia Black from Harvey or from Hershell or Frank in Florida or any of those other well known growers and sellers, I am going to document them as my source but the plant is still Ischia Black. I was not trying to insult you with my comment and I apologize if it came off that way; what I am saying is that our plants are still the variety we bought them as if acquired from a well know and trusted source who also ensures varietal authenticity even though that source was not the original source wherever the heck the original plant came from.... We, all of us, are working with genetically identical plant material obtained via vegetative propagation in the form of cuttings from some source mother buried somewhere back in time, grown and regrown, pruned, cuttings passed along and regrown for countless plant generations. For the most part all varieties trace their origin back to a singular original mother plant. Regardless of how many clones of it exist in the world, they ALL trace their genes back to a single mother, you just have to go back far enough. Dan's BB10 comes from a singular mother which may or may not be a unique plant... that is unknown and will remain so until and unless someone does a complete genetic profile on the plant to elimiate the possibility that it is actually a known cultivar. All plants that derive from Dan's plant are the same genetic plant. If you decide to grow your BB10 cuttings and sell the resulting plants, you can certainly market the fact that they are 1 -  BB10 and 2 - originate from Dan's trees... well so can anyone else that has BB10 that originates from Dan's trees. Anyone buying from you and then growing and selling plants will also be able to say the same thing 1 - they are selling BB10 and 2 - their plant derives from Dan's tree... the fact that their plant first had to grow for you in order to make it to them so they could sell it down the line does not change the provenance or cultivar of the plant...

I don't want this discussion to take a wrong turn so that is the last I am going to say on the subject of BB10....

You didn't see Charlie's one node experiment?  http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/single-node-cuttings-experiment-7144815?highlight=one+node+experiment&trail=50

Charlie for President! :)  (please, please put me on your list Charlie)

Charlie the experimenter, he has my vote.

It is amazing how threads evolve from the original posting subject/thought, not always for the better.

Three Black Beauty 10 cuttings from Dan - $100. + S&H

Peace of mind having them - Priceless 

The only problem I have with that kind of thinking is this, does that then mean that CajunB is not somehow trust worthy? To my knowledge, he is the only other source...that I know of.  

Does that mean that the 30+ people who obtained/invested in BB10 through CajunB directly or indirectly via others now have junk?

I want this fig to be all everyone else does.  But still no one has compared it to Kathleen's Black, Azul Azul, etc.

Louisiana does not have the wasp.  This fig has to have been imported from somewhere else, if it is that good it will still be elsewhere.

Dan is laughing all the way to the bank, his ultimate revenge on us fig crazies.

Put another way,

If your gonna cast doubt on the authenticity and honesty of CajunB's BB10 (albeit indirectly), who I don't know, on a forum viewed worldwide then why shouldn't I doubt the integrity of Dan and authenticity of his BB10, who I also don't know?

That's my issue with this too Don.  I already have a lot of fig plants under different names that ended up being the same.  What's the probability that BB10 isn't already in our collections?  Worth experimenting with, but worth dropping $100 on?  I was really hoping that the early growers with large collections would be able to confirm Dan's opinion before selling it.

Fair enough, I do see your logic.   

Being one who has BB10 from "other source" makes me a little sensitive to implications that any other BB10, not from Dan directly, is not indeed the same BB10.  And I'm sure the others who also have BB10 via CajunB feel similarly.

But I concede that mine are "twigs" and I have no idea what the heck I really have, yet.  I'm with you and may have to shell out another bill just to satisfy my curiosity.

What is known is, Dan (or CajunB) does not own or possess the original mother tree. That maybe we can agree on?

 Like a lot of forum members, I do not know either of them, I have to take both CajunB (or re-sellers of his cuttings) and Dan at their word.

Thank you Don, we don't disagree on anything that I can see.

Mine have leafed out and match the photos. Mine are from Wills.

Having made the purchase I finally got a direct line to the man and asked a few questions I been dying to ask the source for awhile now, for myself and a few others.

The problem I've had is, it was told to me that somebody went on Dan's place and stole some cuttings from his tree and passed them around.  I didn't get a name, wish I did and also wish I knew who got them knowing they were stole, if that in fact happened.  So I just now sent Dan a message and asked him if that was true and who it was.  Maybe he answers me and maybe he doesn't.

Some people have said this is better not talked about.  Better for who?  The thief I reckon and whoever shared in the spoils.  One thing about it you can be sure.  If they stole cuttings from Dan, they would steal them from anyone.  From you or me, even somebody they claim to be friends with.  

It's been said Dan was rude, an ass, loud, obnoxious and maybe even violent towards some.  Tell you what, come in my yard and steal something special from me and see.  Let something be stole from you and see yourself in the mirror.  It makes you rude, an ass, obnoxious and probably violent, unless you're a better person than me.

I won't stop until I learn the truth.  Buying these cuttings doesn't mean I gave up.  I don't care what people thought of or still think of Dan, nobody had the right to take them from his tree unless he cut them his self and handed them.






  

Charlie,

  I sincerely hope those cuttings were not stolen.  I personally would never have bought them if I had known that, bad mojo.

Like most others that are self employed I had hoped to make money off the tree or at the very least make my cost back, but that does not mean I don't love the little trees, and I wouldn't want that kind of energy here.   

Dan replied.  Didn't name anyone but verified he had two starts disappear from his year a couple years ago. 

Hoosierbanana was that for me?  Stand up and say so if it was and I'll be happy to reply but for now it's simply a generic bashing without a place to land.  You must have somebody in mind.

As for the rest of you BB-10 owners, I hope if it matters, you can find sufficient evidence that allows you to feel comfortable with your possession of it.

For the thief and those knowing, your day is coming. You need to make it right with Dan. 

It is a quote from Dan, Charlie. And yes, that sort of generic bashing was one of his favorite activities.