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pitangadiego

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Posted Reply with quote  #51 
See this article:

Let’s begin with actual wastes of water in the state of California. Thanks to Environmental Protection Agency regulations as well as local state regulations aimed at protecting the three-inch Delta smelt, a fish about which Americans supposedly care deeply, California currently pumps 150 billion gallons of usable water out to sea each year. Normally, that water would go to the fields of the Central Valley, the fruit and nuts producing region of California that supplies so many of those goods to the rest of the country. Instead, the entire region has gone dry, jacking unemployment rates up to 40 percent in some areas.

The smelt aren’t the only fish benefitting from generous water usage by the state of California. In 2014, Congressman Tom McClintock (R-CA) explained, “last month the Bureau of Reclamation drained Folsom and other reservoirs on the American and Stanislaus rivers of more than 70,000 acre feet of water – enough to meet the annual needs of a city of half a million people – for the comfort and convenience of fish.” The goal: to push baby salmon to the Pacific Ocean, where they swim anyway, and to change the temperature of the water for their benefit. According to the Center for Biological Diversity, the state of California wastes 260 billion gallons of water each year “saving salmon” and for “other conservation purposes.”

But the biggest problem in California is that the government has refused to build the reservoirs and dams necessary to actually save water when the rain does come. As the Wall Street Journal points out, Israel has weathered droughts for years. So has Arizona. Both built infrastructure. California has not, largely because politicians like Jerry Brown stopped such construction decades ago.

California’s drought is partly about weather, but it’s just as much about government mismanagement. Environmentalism trumped good policy; now, subsidies trump rational distribution via market pricing. The result: a very smelly situation.
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Posted Reply with quote  #52 
Yes greenbud it worked.   We got about 0.25" of rain and I think I put about 3 inches of water in my back yard.

Modifications: 1. Next season it might pay to have a reservoir.  2. a couple sand bags could help guide more water towards the funnel.  and one on top might hold the funnel in place  so I would not have to sit in the rain the whole time.

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           Tim   Zone 10a
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Posted Reply with quote  #53 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ako1974
I ran across this on CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/01/us/california-water-restrictions-drought/index.html
It puts a lot of pressure on everyone. How does this affect home gardeners/fruit growers? Do I have it right that farmers/nurseries purchase water rights to a certain amount of water?
I hope you guys get some rain...


The rain, even in a superfluous year is no where near enough for anything except the native plants (no surprise!). Specifically, in terms of fruiting plants in coastal-influenced metropolitan areas it is sufficient for Holly Leaf Cherry and not much else.

Agriculture in California is a product of irrigation. We are now in the throws of balancing our resources with the real need for drinking water, water for crops, and "recreational" water. People who study the regulations generally do well. For myself, I have fruit trees but no lawn. Years ago I noticed that my sister-in-law in New Jersey had a one acre lawn which only required supplemental watering by a rainbird sprinkler for 2 weeks out of the year. At that point I decided that trying to support the habit of having a lawn in California was pure greed.
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Posted Reply with quote  #54 
It's raining in Los Angeles again.

Less shortage of water hopefully for the coming summer.
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Posted Reply with quote  #55 
It is sprinkling , not raining :(
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Posted Reply with quote  #56 
Crunbar, I'm happy your hard work and ingenuity paid off.  Hope you weren't sitting out there in lightening, though...

It's in the mid thirties here in WI, raining, lightening and thundering.
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Posted Reply with quote  #57 
LOL   No lightening comrade.  Rest assured the likelihood of me continuing to sit my wet butt on top of the funnel would decrease with the proximity of lightening.  

please enjoy the miracle of your rain.

Tim Zone 10a
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Posted Reply with quote  #58 
I agree with you Richard, about lawns.   The water i brought into my yard was for the trees.  Santa Barbara is offering free mulch to put in our yards.  I plan to have a yard of mulch and fruit trees.  My massive redwoods are near the perimeter of the property.

Tim  Zone 10a
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Posted Reply with quote  #59 
A solution posted in the Dry Farming thread seems like the answer for plants, trees, and veggies during a drought and after.  It's kinda a wick system in ground and encourages roots to grow deep.  It takes 4 gallons of water at planting to get it primed, and no water after that.  The roots reach the water table, and they grow on their own.  Kinda amazing how it works.  They have tons of videos of trees they have planted in dry deserts, and rocky hills in Spain.  I'm planning to get 10 of these for new rooted fig and grapevine cuttings.  Robert Mondavi is testing these side by side with the growboxx next to drip irrigation rows, and after a year, the growbox roots were deep and the ground was easier to penetrate.  Their website is here.  I've spent a couple days learning.  Amazing stuff.  After a year, you reuse the boxes for new plants.

Suzi
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Posted Reply with quote  #60 
Ctrunbar, I assure you I appreciate our rain and aquifers.  We moved to WI in 1991 from No. VA.  There we were on city water and some summers the cracks in clay were frightening.  I mulched and watered and worried.  One summer here I spent more that an hour a day carrying buckets.  Right now we are about 3 inches below normal from the first of the year.  I'm not sure what's coming up for the summer.  I will be mulching heavily, and looking into future key hole growing areas.  Can't take anything for granted...
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Posted Reply with quote  #61 
In my experience, low water = low quality fruit. End of story.
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Posted Reply with quote  #62 
Richard, expand on that.  Low water in vineyards = great wine.  From experience.  Yours?

Suzi
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Posted Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDance
Richard, expand on that.  Low water in vineyards = great wine.  From experience.  Yours?
Suzi

Low water compared to what? For vineyards it would make more sense if we are talking about inches per week per season. In some wine growing regions the annual rainfall is over 100 inches, and in others it is 4 inches. The concept of low water in those two extremes is different. I was referring to the latter scenario and only watering 4 inches every other week throughout the year.
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Posted Reply with quote  #64 
Well, this thread is about drought in California.  Not about quality of fruit.  I do believe that we all need to cut back on the water, and we already have.  We replaced our lawn with a fake lawn AKA putting green.  It's just gorgeous all the time.  But hot as concrete if you go barefoot on it.  Looks good though. 

I'm really interested in how to increase our vineyard and orchards with zero water, and I think the Groasis Tech might be the answer.

Suzi
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Posted Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDance
... I'm really interested in how to increase our vineyard and orchards with zero water, and I think the Groasis Tech might be the answer. Suzi

I wish you well there. The prognosis from decades of research by UC Riverside is not good though.
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crunbar

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Posted Reply with quote  #66 
pitangadiego  Interesting article.    Do you agree with the article's conclusion that farmers are getting too much water based on their relative
economic contribution to the state?  For  example it points out that " A full 10 percent of California’s water goes to farming almonds – 1.1 trillion gallons of water..."  yet all CA farming only accounts for 2% of the CA economy.  

Maybe almonds are not the best use of limited resources.  However I must say, I am in favor of inexpensive food.

I heartily agree we should have been building more dams a reservoirs.

Tim Zone 10a
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Posted Reply with quote  #67 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunbar
Harvey

last night, I think it was ABC News that stated 80% of used California surface water goes to agriculture and 20% to "all other uses." 

As for exporting water intensive crops, is this not a case of the government subsidizing private business?  We in suburban areas pay far higher water prices, even if we are growing food.

Tim  Zone 10a

BTW I also collect rain water from my roof into trash cans.


Tim, that's because they knock off 50% for environmental uses before figuring out the percentage of other uses.  Ag uses 40% of water in the state.  See http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=1108 or many other resources which factor in environmental uses

I've also read that the through state and federal contracts/obligations, 120% of all surface water has been allocated.  First they started running deficits with our money and then our water.
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crunbar

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Posted Reply with quote  #68 
Harvey thanks for this reference: 
  • "Environmental water provides multiple benefits. 
    Environmental water use falls into four categories: water in rivers protected as "wild and scenic” under federal and state laws, water required for maintaining habitat within streams, water that supports wetlands within wildlife preserves, and water needed to maintain water quality for agricultural and urban use. Most water allocated to the environment does not affect other water uses. More than half of California’s environmental water use occurs in rivers along the state’s north coast. These waters are largely isolated from major agricultural and urban areas and cannot be used for other purposes. In the rest of California where water is shared by all three sectors, environmental use is not dominant (33%, compared to 53% agricultural and 14% urban)."
  • ..end quote.   I wish this would also be a wake up call against the ridiculously popular view that perpetual economic growth (which I believe is largely based on population growth) is always good and will always be possible.
  • Tim Zone 10a
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Posted Reply with quote  #69 
http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_24993601/california-drought-past-dry-periods-have-lasted-more?source=infinite

Good article on the history of Ca climate.

I dont know what the solution is for the west coast or even if there is a solution. There's plenty of blame to go around and that can be shared by everyone across the country. Knowing where your food comes from and the impact it has on the environment is something noone really thinks about.
Paving thousands of miles of road and diverting water to aquaducts that moves it out to sea instead of letting the land obsorb the water is also a huge issue noone ever thinks about.

I also think many forget that we live on a planet with finite resources and we cant just expand, create and consume. Nature eventually rights things. Everything in nature is self healing, from plants and small animals right up to Humans. This includes the earth and nature itself. Mother earth has one thing on her side. Time. We can destroy or air, water and soils. Mother nature will fix it all. It just wont be on our time. If it takes 100,000 years or a million or more she will fix herself. We just wont be happy because it wont be within our lifetimes. It may not even be within our species lifetime. 

I think we forget that the sytems in place on this planet have evolved over millions of years. Yes we can exploit those systems for a time but eventually we will do to much damage and it will catch up with us. I think it can be argued that its already catching up. Our soils get depleted more and more every year, our air is polluted, our water is polluted, cancer and other diseases are through the roof.

The bottom line is we cant keep going the way we are. Either we stop what we are doing and start working and living in harmony with nature or we will destroy ourselves. For the smartest species on the planet we definitely do a lot of stupid things.

Can we build desalinization plants? Sure we can. At what cost to the environment? Can we build more dams? Sure we can but at what cost? We could probably turn death valley into a green oasis but is it the right thing to do just because we can?

3-4 generations ago they would have laughed at you if you told them you wouldnt be able to drink the water from the lakes, streams and rivers in a couple of generaitons, yet here we are.
Right now we are probably at a point where what we do now will decide if there is even going to be 3-4 more generations. At our current rate of destruction my best guess is there may still be humans but the population is going to be greatly reduced. The reasons are many but the biggest one is we cant think about things more than an election cycle into the future.
We have over 100 nuke plants here in the US. I have no idea how many world wide. We are smart enough to build them and run them pretty much problem free for decades yet we have no solution for the disposal of the waste from them. arguably the most hazardous waste that humans produce yet we have no plan to deal with it other than to bury it onsite. I guess we can be thankful they didnt come up with this 10,000 years ago when the sea levels were 400 feet lower. None of us would exist now if they had. I know thats a bit off topic but just pointing out how stupid us humans can be sometimes.
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Posted Reply with quote  #70 
Jeff said, "...The reasons are many but the biggest one is we cant think about things more than an election cycle into the future...."    

 I agree with most of your thinking.

One of the big problems with our democracy is there is no practical nor severe penalty for lying while running for office (unlike the U.K.), even when it can be proved that the PAC or candidate know they are lying.  If not for this fact I would have no problem with  the "Citizens United" ruling.

You know there are plenty of politicians that know dar n well that climate change is aggravated by humans, but corrupt politicians say what they think their ill-informed  base wants to hear.

Think about it.  It's illegal to shout fire in a crowded theater, or joke that you have a bomb on a plane. However, when we are electing the person who has the power to precipitate World War lll,   PACS  (with anonymous super wealthy donors) can flood all media with  any lie they please about any presidential candidate.

The beauty of democracy is we all get to judge the competition of ideas, but this is only practical if we have the facts. Therefore, I believe all political lies are crimes against democracy and humanity.  

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              Tim Zone 10a
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Posted Reply with quote  #71 
Possible storm this week... Who-Raw!   The local Santa Barbara weatherman says possible Wednesday or Thursday.   The weather channel's web site says 50% for tomorrow (Tuesday).  Guess I'll lay out most of my 200ft of firehose (see post #33) tonight, just in case.

I hope to be sitting in the rain by this time tomorrow.... go baby go!

Tim Zone 10a
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Posted Reply with quote  #72 
I don't know what I'm going to do with all that rain..<G>

http://www.wunderground.com/weather-forecast/US/CA/Simi_Valley.html

Oh well..

Latest tiers,2-9.......

http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/waterrights/water_issues/programs/drought/docs/emergency_regulations/draft_usage_tiers.pdf

I'm in Ventura District 8,looking @ -28%.I'm on clay so I think I can make that work.

Good Luck!

Paul


 
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Posted Reply with quote  #73 
Yes, CA is a historically dry part of the world. The elephant in the room however, is the effect that the ongoing geoengineering program is having on weather patterns worldwide. The people of Bologna, Italy, took to the streets this past weekend to demand that this program be stopped. We in the US, blame cycles or bad luck to the rediculous amount of weather events that have no precedent. Perhaps it is too late already, but for my kids and grandkids, I hope not.
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Posted Reply with quote  #74 
Why can't you use a pool for water storage? I'm sure it's not legal but eventually it will be released or evaporated. You could burry a cheap pool and build a cover over it.
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Posted Reply with quote  #75 
Good Luck!

Paul

Thanks Paul.  My street is on a long hill.  So, I think I can corral even a fairly modest flow of water, into the funnel connected to my fire hose, with some plastic trash bags turned into sand bags.  I like the non-water-permeable plastic so the sand (dirt really) doesn't become waterlogged and too heavy to pull off the street curb when I'm done. 

Gary, I'm embarrassed for US, particularly for my short-sighted, self-indulgent, baby boomer generation.

Hershell, I'm going to look into your Cheap Swimming Pool idea, for next season.  Tanks for the great suggestion.

giggle 
Tim zone 10a
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Posted Reply with quote  #76 
This rain shortage is really a big issue for our nation as a whole.  Our politicians need to plan a way to protect our agriculture in Ca.  I like Hershell's idea though.  Its like having a huge rain barrel!
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Posted Reply with quote  #77 
It definitely falls under the category "national security issue".
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Posted Reply with quote  #78 
It definitely falls under the category "national security issue". 
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Arne

It should Arne.  Imagine all the people needing food stamps if cheap California produce were no longer available for the rest of our country.

BTW If memory serves, I believe I heard a report that some $120,000,000,000.00 (over 10 years) was recently cut from the Food Stamp Program.  

That's good, so the underprivileged 0.2% can leave over $10,000,000.00 to their inheritors tax free.  

Let the aristocracy begin!

Cheers,
Tim Zone 10a
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Posted Reply with quote  #79 
50% chance of .03" of rain this week! Be still my heart!
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Sue
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Posted Reply with quote  #80 
Sue.
I remember when I was young, carefree, and dared to curse the rain.   oh sweet regret!   

Oh BTW Sue, you kindly sent me 5 "saratoga" cuttings and I'm pretty sure one of them is not Saratoga.  What fun!  It has completely different leaf structure and I can't wait to see the surprise figs it will make.

Thanks comrade!

Tim  Zone 10a
pitangadiego

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Posted Reply with quote  #81 
Sue, that sounds like the 0.00" from the last so-called rainstorm.
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Posted Reply with quote  #82 
Tim,
I only have the saratoga aka chico strawberry cuttings so it would be a miracle if the one was not saratoga. I don't know how that could have happened but c'est la vie!
Those that requested cuttings towards the end of my offer got a few more than the 3 advertised as they were smaller in diameter. First come got the big, juicy cuttings. Those that came later got thinner but more cuttings to try to make up the difference. So far, no complaints. :-) I still have a couple hundred in the refer and I've started 20 trees...
Sue
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Posted Reply with quote  #83 
I use intellicast.  That hourly thing.  We might just get o.o3 inches of rain.  BUT, Svanessa AKA Sue, I did buy some Statice seeds.  Your plants are amazing, and I think tomorrow, I'll just go spread the things and with the rain, one or two might germinate.  And there is this Lyrid Meteor Shower tonight, but go figure.  Cloud cover.

Suzi
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Posted Reply with quote  #84 
Santa Barbara weatherman says there's another storm coming from Alaska and maybe...  Go baby go!

Sue all 5 cuttings are each happily growing in 1 gallon pots.  I'll keep you posted if something metaphysical happens from the 5th.
Every time I see them, I think of your generosity.

Suzi I'm sorry, but I got an impression from the Hubbel Space Telescope site, on youtube, that the best time to see that meteor shower was the wee hours of this morning.

    I was so bummed to discover I didn't manage  to get up before day break.

Cheers,
           Tim   Zone 10a
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Posted Reply with quote  #85 
Procrastination is a good thing I think.  It's raining now, and yesterday we carefully planted those tiny statice seeds all over our mountain.  The instructions said 1/16" deep, so we just laid them on some dry dirt with a fork in the ground to mark where we put each one, pinched a little dry soil on top and gave them a spray of water from a water bottle.  I was prepared to go out this morning and spray all the forks, but no need.  It's a nice light rain.  Hope it doesn't wash them away from their markers!  I also hope you all get some of this nice rain too!

Suzi
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Posted Reply with quote  #86 
Woo Hoo......... we received a little over 0.30 inches of rain last night.   Maybe a wee bit more before this front heads east.    God willing........!
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Posted Reply with quote  #87 
I think it's over now, but it was a light off and on rain all day long.  I like it that way because it wasn't a torrent that washes all the seeds away.  It was gentle enough to break the dry crust and allow the water to penetrate the soil.  I know, not a lot of penetration, but I am thankful!

Suzi
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Posted Reply with quote  #88 
Pardon my East coast ignorance, I've heard a lot about cut back of water for lawns... but can suburban gardeners still water their fruit and veggie gardens in most areas of CA pretty freely? Is it turning more expensive?
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Posted Reply with quote  #89 
Persianmd2orchard, it's too early to say. 

The wheels of government regulation take time to turn.  Each county is in charge of informing it's water customers of cutbacks.  Last year, prior to the governor's edict, our county cut us all back to watering on certain days depending on your address.  From what I understand it applies more to water being wasted on lawns and sidewalks, etc.  A lot of those in suburbia prioritize which trees get water and many have converted to drought loving plants.  Each individual will have to decide to use or not to use water for fruit trees.  Many save rain and gray water for irrigation purposes.

Our home is in the agricultural water district and is not in a city or town, but they cut us back last year, and may do so again soon.  Time will tell.  The drip system works for us because we can regulate days and timing.  HOWEVER, leaks happen.  Just last week, I was on the walkie talkie (necessary for the size of the property we own), and I paged JD!  "WE ARE WATERING THE DRIVEWAY!!!!"  You have to be out there when the water is on to see these things happen.  It's all fixed now.

Thanks for your concern.  People in the central valleys of California have it much worse than where we are.  Entire orchards have dried up and died there.  Very sad.

Suzi
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Posted Reply with quote  #90 
I believe the consensus is to cut the water usage by 5-36% percent depending on a city and a household. If you achieve that level of reduction , I hope it should be fine to water whatever else you grow especially with a watering can or a drip line.
I think different cities will issue different regulations and fine schedules and what you can and cannot do would depend on that.
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Posted Reply with quote  #91 
persianmd2orchard  For me you're right, water is now much more expensive in Santa Barbara, especially if your use is a bit above average.  Ground cover in my front yard is converted to ivy and paving stone. I take very water-miserly showers... Personally, I feel a bit self righteous about spending some water to grow food.  Still, I try to take every opportunity to maximize every rain that does occur, see message #33 this thread.

So pleased Suzi and Jack got a little taste this last "storm;" Santa Barbara was in a rain shadow, but maybe today...

Think happy thoughts!

Tim Zone 10a
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Posted Reply with quote  #92 
I'm pulling out my fire hose (see entry #33).   It's raining in Northern California and Santa Barbara has shot at it.  Here's wishing the best of luck to our friends to the south.

Go Baby Go!

Tim Zone 10a
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Posted Reply with quote  #93 
Its been pouring for hours!  Just noticed the birds don't chirp in the rain.  I'm pretty chirpy today!  Wishing all of California and other drought areas a nice rainy day!

Suzi
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Posted Reply with quote  #94 
Hope you all get a big rain soon! Fingers crossed!
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Posted Reply with quote  #95 
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With the state of California mired in its fourth year of drought and a mandatory 25 percent reduction in water usage in place, reports of water theft have become common.

In April, The Associated Press reported that huge amounts of water went missing from the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta and a state investigation was launched. The delta is a vital body of water, serving 23 million Californians as well as millions of farm acres, according to the Association for California Water Agencies.
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Gordenia
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Posted Reply with quote  #96 
Well that sucks!  How are they getting away with this?  Where is big brother?

Rain is expected again on Friday, but for one day and not enough to help the drought.

Suzi
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Posted Reply with quote  #97 
Stealing water is nothing new in CA. Nestle Corp., a SWISS company, has 5 bottled water plants in CA, taking millions of gallons of our water, and selling it around the world. One of their plants, in the San Bernadino Forest, bottles water from a spring. Millions of gallons. The permit was issued by the US Forestry Service. Of course, it EXPIRED 27 years ago. So, for 27 years, they've been stealing water.
Nestle lost a battle with the residents of McCloud, CA., as they wanted to bottle the pristine water from Mt. Shasta. That water is the headwaters of the Sacramento River, which supplies much of the state. It was a long, legal battle, but their permit was denied. One of the reasons I left the Monterey Peninsula, was the cost of water. I had clients whose water bills were in the hundreds to thousands of dollars per month. Some of these properties were not that large. Cal-American Water controls most of the water on the peninsula. They are owned by a German Corporation. Many homes in Carmel are 2nd or 3rd homes, and vacant much of the year. Constant problem was nearby, full time residents running long hoses from someone else's faucet to do their irrigation. Stealing water will only increase.
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Gary in CA 9A  Seeking: Bebera Branca*, Colonel Littman's Cross
ako1974

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Posted Reply with quote  #98 
Is there a noticeable number of people leaving the state due to the water issues/cost? Similarly, I live in NJ, where property taxes are high. We're always seeing stats about the number of people who leave (likely for that reason) versus the number of new people coming in. Of course, it isn't always easy to tell with numbers what exactly people are doing in life, but there is definitely some correlation. It'd be interesting to know if CA's water issues are causing a shift in where people choose to live.
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Arne
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Posted Reply with quote  #99 
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Originally Posted by ako1974
Is there a noticeable number of people leaving the state due to the water issues/cost? Similarly, I live in NJ, where property taxes are high. We're always seeing stats about the number of people who leave (likely for that reason) versus the number of new people coming in. Of course, it isn't always easy to tell with numbers what exactly people are doing in life, but there is definitely some correlation. It'd be interesting to know if CA's water issues are causing a shift in where people choose to live.
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Arne, the short answer is …. NO.  At least if traffic on all freeways in So Call is any indication.  And, recent census trends are correct…   Golden state population trends | first tuesday Journal   I'm sure it is way too early to know the real impact, but seems like strength in California economy may be offsetting losses from long drought.  So far Anyway!  

Although we seem to have been guilty of timely reaction to this drought, it is now front  page fodder on all media and public awareness is high.  People are coming around (finally) to the realities, water provider enforcing usage, so there is hope we survive until the next rains.   Interestingly, it is actually a badge of honor to have a brown lawn now and landscapers are working 7/24 installing drought tolerant plantings.  Succulent planting are all the new rage
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figgary

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Posted Reply with quote  #100 
Arne, I'm not sure how noticeable it is, but I do think some leave due to water scarcity and cost. Everything in CA is expensive, though. When you love to garden, as we all do, you want a great climate and plenty of water. The climate we have. I've known several people who've moved north to Oregon and Washington, but nowhere is perfect.
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Gary in CA 9A  Seeking: Bebera Branca*, Colonel Littman's Cross
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