Capri Fig from Glendale Church Parking Lot

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Aaron4USA

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Posted 1393290421	Reply with quote #1

I dug out this Capri branch and it came out with root but was attached to the huge trunk that was under ground, so i used my new cutter to separate it from the mother trunk. Will this survive and still hold the Capri figs on it? How can I make this work all around without any loss? I just planted it and watered with B6 water mix.

rcantor

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Posted 1393291778	Reply with quote #2

Plant it, fertilize it and hope for the best. __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1393293355	Reply with quote #3

I put in water with Vitamin B1, the nursery guy said B6 helps to root

jdsfrance

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Posted 1393335685	Reply with quote #4

Hi Aaron4USA, if the plant has roots, just treat it as a rooted cutting or as a tree if the roots are enough developed and water as appropriate. If the temp is ok at your location, I would just treat it as a tree - Fig trees are resilient . __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

greg88

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Posts: 800

Posted 1393338097	Reply with quote #5

Cant get pic to show but if roots look good treat it like an airlayer. If roots a bit skimpy and a lot of foilage, trim back most of the leaves so transpiration does not cause too much moisture loss the roots cannot keep up with. I typically do this with my Airlayers. Cut off half of the leaves and trim remaining leaves by half. Teh plant will respond with leaf growth related to what the roots can support. __________________ Greg North West Arkanasas Zone 6b Wish list: any SPECTACULAR cold hardy figs, and/or perhaps a Niagra Bl., Laradek EBT, Kathleen's Bl, Hunt, a great UNK or anything anyone wants me to have???

bullet08

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Posts: 6,920

Posted 1393340820	Reply with quote #6

what bob said. __________________ Pete Durham, NC Zone 7b "don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill "the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher *** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. * * and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...***

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1393348316	Reply with quote #7

Quote: Originally Posted by greg88 Cant get pic to show but if roots look good treat it like an airlayer. If roots a bit skimpy and a lot of foilage, trim back most of the leaves so transpiration does not cause too much moisture loss the roots cannot keep up with. I typically do this with my Airlayers. Cut off half of the leaves and trim remaining leaves by half. Teh plant will respond with leaf growth related to what the roots can support. Greg, as you see in the pics now there aren't many leaves , should I trim them anyway? seems like they are staying firm so far, this is since last night...it's been more than 16 hrs.

jdsfrance

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Posted 1393353444	Reply with quote #8

Hi Aaron4USA, Can't see the pics, try reposting them __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

greg88

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Posts: 800

Posted 1393353475	Reply with quote #9

Aaron, for whatever reason I still cannot pull up pic. Just keep an eye on it and if it does not droop or wilt too bad it should be ok. good luck! __________________ Greg North West Arkanasas Zone 6b Wish list: any SPECTACULAR cold hardy figs, and/or perhaps a Niagra Bl., Laradek EBT, Kathleen's Bl, Hunt, a great UNK or anything anyone wants me to have???

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1393353920	Reply with quote #10

I don't know why you guys can't see the pics, I reduced the sizes, and I see them now., Bummers. the original from January when I had just discovered...

lampo

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Posted 1393359743	Reply with quote #11

Hi Aaron, A swift transplant on good soil and the right amount of moisture (with or without vitamins) will make it. Have done similar exercises with far less roots without problems The Caprifig fruit (adult Mamme) will usually hang to its branch and with their 'reserves' will live without problems.. the question mark may go to the following crop (Profichi) still very young and delicate. See if around those figs on the picture are there any tiny figlets. Francisco

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1393366582	Reply with quote #12

There are Profichi at the top portion of the branch Francisco, and they still look OK so far, I have my fingers crossed on this. :) And BTW, the eye on the Mamme are open already, seems like the Wasps are out?, because there were a lot of Profichi on the mother tree, all firm and green but very large.

lampo

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Posted 1393368251	Reply with quote #13

The young Profichi on the top of the branch on the same (2013) wood as the Mamme is OK..they will grow very fast to be receptive by approx March 20th and by that time they will be the size of your index nail. Open ostioles on the Mamme figs now, is not normal.. wasps will only leave the winter fig by about above date to go inside i the Profichi and lay their load of eggs. Francisco

greg88

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Posted 1393368952	Reply with quote #14

NOW I can see them,, you should be good i believe! __________________ Greg North West Arkanasas Zone 6b Wish list: any SPECTACULAR cold hardy figs, and/or perhaps a Niagra Bl., Laradek EBT, Kathleen's Bl, Hunt, a great UNK or anything anyone wants me to have???

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1393370169	Reply with quote #15

Thanks Greg for reassurance:) Francisco, you can see the opening on the top Right pic, the top fig has opening... maybe it's not fully open yet?

lampo

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Posted 1393371266	Reply with quote #16

Aaron, that opening could be enough for them to escape and try and find some receptive figs (which I doubt as they still too small as you say) Francisco

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1393375975	Reply with quote #17

I took these pictures just now, the mother tree is full of these sizes, from huge to all the way smallest , barely visible.

jdsfrance

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Posted 1393405884	Reply with quote #18

Hi Aaron4USA, I can see the pics now . You planted the tree just right. Just keep looking at the leaves. As long as they stay firm, the tree is doing good. That tree as really big roots - I would have given it a bigger pot because of the size/length of the roots. Just let the tree like that now - I is important to not stress the tree by re-potting too often . __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

lampo

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Posted 1393406235	Reply with quote #19

Nice tree and.. prolific! Assuming this is a good Caprifig, at this time of the season they could only be winter figs (Mamme) Have you looked inside one of these figs ? open a couple of them in halves and let's have a look. As per Nature's calendar, Mamme will only be ripe in approx a month time, so if these are in fact genuine, they will be still very hard, with a tightly closed ostiole The amount of stress created when the rooted branch was cut, may have altered the normal behavior of the plant and aborted the natural sequence... I guess Never seen such clusters of Mamme figs.. (Profichi's yes it's quite normal).. see pic

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1393431774	Reply with quote #20

thanks for the input jdsfrance. Francisco, that tree gets so much sun , maybe that's the reason it's ahead of the game so much, it's facing west, also is surrounded with barricading 3-4 feet walls that keeps the root and trunk so warm all the time. Here's what the insides liik like... I think you have seen these pics before..

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1393432034	Reply with quote #21

here's the mother tree and the way it's barricaded with buildings and walls. This pic is few weeks old now, the gigs on it are what above pic of branches are.

elin

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Posted 1393443082	Reply with quote #22

If we are talking on capri figs-- i have a question.. do capri figs usually have hair like texture on the figs? __________________ Eli ,Israel ,Zone 10? Too humid and hot, yada yada yada https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1298814119 Growing: Sbayi, Hmadi, Black Portugal, Black Brazil,Excell, Flanders, Hmari , RDB, Niagra Black,Natalina, CDDN,Maya, Preto Torres, Preto Arge

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1393454976	Reply with quote #23

nnnoish, lol

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1400021270	Reply with quote #24

Updates to the above Capri Tree from Glendale Church Parking Lot the pics of tree, flower (you'll see closely why it's called Flower and not fruit) and if you are really careful you'll see few Wasps. One add thing that I noticed that's common within these capri figs is that they are extremely light and spongy to the feel in hand. Enjoy ;)

donpaid

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Posted 1400022249	Reply with quote #25

Awesome pics! I have seen a few wild caprifigs growing near my house. Along with the clusters of unripe profichi, I noticed that some of the profichi were very dry and easy to pick off, no sign of wasps inside. Maybe it's just water stressed? I only opened one that looked dry and shriveled. I didn't try to open one that was hard and unripe, but it would be interesting to see if they produce viable pollen for pollination of the females. Are you thinking of doing some fig breeding experiments?

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1400022655	Reply with quote #26

These ones were soft and spongy, you could easily put your finger through it... don't expect to see Wasps flying all around you when you cut the capri fig, they will emerge so slowly from in between flowers...you'll see few here in the pics, last 2 pics have few... the last one if you see, Bottom Left side on the cut part... and the one before last pic... Top Left side of the cut fig has one . @donpaid, as to your last question: Breeding experiment sounds like a nice project. You got anything in mind? I have few things going on the side...

lampo

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Posted 1400065645	Reply with quote #27

Aaron, Thank you for showing those pictures of the Glendale Church Caprifig. On average circumstances Profichi are still through the ripening process and wasps not yet ready to hatch. This should happen approx in a month time, that's what I expect from the majority of Caprifigs around here. However if certain branches of the tree are over exposed, getting direct sun radiation, and the ambient temperatures go beyond 35ºC (95ºF) through consecutive days... with low humidity,.. the heat may easily cook the larvae/insects inside the galls and the figs may drop from the tree. Your pictures show Profichi for some reason ripening ahead of time. The gall translucid capsules do show a dark creature inside indicating that wasps are there, also figs display a large set of male flowers which means plenty of pollen. Are there any receptive Smyrna or Common figs ? ..about size of an index nail ? If you have some you could try and get several of those softer caprifigs on a string and place them on a branch under the shade of the leaves. Francisco

donpaid

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Posted 1400085633	Reply with quote #28

Aaron, I have two large trees of an unknown San Pedro variety. For some reason, the main crop rarely gets pollinated; so it's nice to have delicious brebas in early summer, but a little disappointing to see the main crops never reach an edible, jelly-like state. This year I wanted to try and hang some caprifigs in the trees like they do in Turkey and I'm sure other parts of the world, to see if I can get more main crops to ripen. Also, I want to try and save some seeds from those pollinated mains and see what happens. The caprifig I found has awesome prominent red/orange stems. Would be interesting to see what comes from a green/yellow fig pollinated by a dark variety with red stems. Are you conducting any experiments/fig projects as well? -Daniele

gorgi

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Posted 1400086300	Reply with quote #29

Any fruit on any stressed tree is a big energy drain... __________________ George, NJ_z7a.

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1400087327	Reply with quote #30

-Thanks Francisco,Unless this phenomenon is strictly due to the mother tree's settings, location, orientation to the sun and overall environment. I'm wondering if this is a variety of capri that produces wasps for a very long lasting season, if so, this could be a very valuable variety to have as a pollinator for any Smyrna, San Pedro or even common fig. I threw the cut capri figs into the bucket of the Capri from church that I had pulled from the mother tree (picture in post #1) and I'm sure there are a lot of wasps that will emerge from those cut figs, If they make it and find the baby figs that are forming on the freshly rooted trees then they will survive I guess, otherwise next year for sure...I have very few baby figs flowering , they are all of the January-February rooting, but there are few figs developing here and there. -Daniele, I have a pollination project developing but I am not in liberty of discussing it at this time... too early, also it's going to require Copywriting.

lampo

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Posted 1400107441	Reply with quote #31

Aaron, Profichi, I am aware of, do ripen either by mid June or mid July but never liberate wasps for more than a period of over 3 or 4 weeks (effectively 3 weeks is the average).. Favorable climate, a moderately warm Spring , frequent irrigation, etc may promote earlier ripening on that Caprifig... and on ground trees, their roots occasionally find ample supplies of hidden, good nutrients, boosting its development. Let me show you on a couple of pictures how a particular Profichi looks like now, in my environment. It is still 'green' unripe, very hard on touch, the insects still through their metamorphosis, and the male flowers too stiff and not yet letting any pollen out. It makes sense to say that it still needs an extra month or so to be ready. As soon as it becomes 'spongy' a good sign of being ripe, then, time to pick them up from the tree and hang them on the receptive figs Francisco

rcantor

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Posted 1400121150	Reply with quote #32

Is there any way to tell if this is a persistent caprifig or not? __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1400130707	Reply with quote #33

Francisco, do you think this is abnormal for the tree to behave like this or we tapped into a new type of Capri fig that provides longer season of wasps?

lampo

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Posted 1400142070	Reply with quote #34

Aaron, All books, reports, writings, papers from many authors from the last quarter of the 19th century up to now always relate the ripening of the pollinating Caprifig (Profichi) to the receptiveness of the Smyrna, Common and San Pedro (main crop) figs. This date, with slight variations, is referred as the 16th of June on every year. I believe Nature decided this way, which makes good sense, once as wasps leave the wild fig carrying the pollen, there will be many female fruit (caducous) ready and anxious to get it. On some years my potted Profichi may start sending out wasps around the 10th of June So, it would not be normal for your Caprifig to ripe their fruit one month ahead of time..If this is so, where the poor insects go ? I am not aware of any caducous or persistent figs receptive now... May be I am wrong ... at least mine are not at all ready, be they ground or potted figs. Bob, Good question. I don't think so. My understanding of a Persistent Caprifig from what has been written in the forum by many members is a fruit from the Profichi crop (the first) that do not contain any wasps, just plenty of male flowers loaded with pollen. Nobody here cares for such Profichis. I would welcome a good definition of such fig and if at all possible some pictures. I know it is there... but where ? Francisco

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1400170841	Reply with quote #35

Francisco, this is puzzling indeed, all remains to see is how long is the wasp season for this tree... Would be awesome to see it outlast all the other capri wasp release seasons, :) Then it would be an unusual find indeed.

RichinNJ

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Posted 1400175583	Reply with quote #36

Those do not look very appetizing.

rcantor

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Posted 1400183405	Reply with quote #37

Quote: Originally Posted by lampo Bob, Good question. I don't think so. My understanding of a Persistent Caprifig from what has been written in the forum by many members is a fruit from the Profichi crop (the first) that do not contain any wasps, just plenty of male flowers loaded with pollen. Nobody here cares for such Profichis. I would welcome a good definition of such fig and if at all possible some pictures. I know it is there... but where ? Francisco http://waynesword.palomar.edu/pljun99b.htm about halfway down the page. 1. Female trees (incl. the Smyrna-type figs such as the Calimyrna) produce 2 crops of syconia annually: a breba crop (which ripens in early summer) and a 2nd or main crop which ripens in fall. Smyrna-type figs are homozygous recessive for the caducous (early deciduous) trait [pp] and require pollination in order for the fruit to set. Note: numerous varieties of edible figs are heterozygous for the dominant persistent gene [Pp] and do not require wasp pollination. Since [P] is lethal to the egg receiving it, homozygous dominant offspring [PP] are not possible; caprifigs may be caducous [pp] or persistent [Pp]. So a persistent caprifig is the only type that can produce seeds that will become common fig trees (the ones not needing pollination to bear edible fruit). __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1400189010	Reply with quote #38

Quote: Originally Posted by lampo Aaron, All books, reports, writings, papers from many authors from the last quarter of the 19th century up to now always relate the ripening of the pollinating Caprifig (Profichi) to the receptiveness of the Smyrna, Common and San Pedro (main crop) figs. This date, with slight variations, is referred as the 16th of June on every year. I believe Nature decided this way, which makes good sense, once as wasps leave the wild fig carrying the pollen, there will be many female fruit (caducous) ready and anxious to get it. On some years my potted Profichi may start sending out wasps around the 10th of June So, it would not be normal for your Caprifig to ripe their fruit one month ahead of time..If this is so, where the poor insects go ? I am not aware of any caducous or persistent figs receptive now... May be I am wrong ... at least mine are not at all ready, be they ground or potted figs. Bob, Good question. I don't think so. My understanding of a Persistent Caprifig from what has been written in the forum by many members is a fruit from the Profichi crop (the first) that do not contain any wasps, just plenty of male flowers loaded with pollen. Nobody here cares for such Profichis. I would welcome a good definition of such fig and if at all possible some pictures. I know it is there... but where ? Francisco Francisco, for the part that's Bob's question, I think it was the Capri Fig tree in Beverly Hills that I mentioned that wouldn't carry wasps but it will be loaded with pollen... These pictures were taken on March 23rd this year... the eyes are so tightly closed then, I have to go back for update pictures. These figs, contrary to the other Glendale Church capri figs were very heavy and juicy, just not sweet enough to be pleasant, and were full of dust, which when I mentioned , you said it must've been capri fig-pollen.

lampo

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Posted 1400198636	Reply with quote #39

Bob, Thank you for your transcription and link. It will not be easy to find those figs. The Mammoni crop, should in my view be the one to consider first as it is the only crop of the Caprifig with genuine female flowers and to take wasps from the Profichi more or less loaded with fertine pollen Francisco

lampo

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Posted 1400201151	Reply with quote #40

Aaron, I refer to the pictures you have sent a while ago and ask you if you have any cutaway of those figs you say dated March 23rd. Around that date, a genuine Caprifig will show : A few Mamme or winter figs, near the tops of some branches, changing color, becoming ripe, soft and letting many wasps to leave this Mamme synconium to enter into surrounding new/young Caprifigs, the Profichi, the following crop. These Profichi will accept the wasps which will deposit their load of new eggs inside the fig's gall flowers. At this point in time there is NO POLLEN involved Three months after that March 20 ish (more or less one or two days) i.e. around 20th June all those Profichi shall gradually ripen issuing thousands of wasps loaded with pollen . This is the only Caprifig crop with wasps and pollen You have to bear in mind that over and above the genuine Caprifigs, there are many more wild figs which are not necessarily Caprifigs...To be sure of what they are, we have to cut these fruit open and inspect its inside. I shall include a picture of a genuine Caprifig on the 20th of March 2012 to illustrate what I said above Francisco

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1400202009	Reply with quote #41

ok, Francisco, I am getting it now... this wasp business is not so simple, LOL

HarveyC

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Posted 1400215664	Reply with quote #42

Francisco, the fig breeder told me a couple of months ago that the only way to determine if a caprig is persistent or not is to bag it or somehow prevent access to if from a wasp. If it is not visited by a wasp yet it matures on the tree (doesn't drop), then it is judged to be a persistent fig. I now have about 11 caprifig selections and hope they will all bear fruit next year at which time I will bag some of the fruit to evaluate persistence. I will leave some without bags so that I can better determine dropping/maturity, etc. __________________ Harvey - Correia Farms Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14 http://www.figaholics.com https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

lampo

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Posted 1400227024	Reply with quote #43

OK Harvey I see what you mean. This 'eye blinding' exercise shall be made on the first Caprifig crop (Profichi) ? Please clarify. There are many wild figs around here some Caprifigs other not. On a number of them there seems to exist certain varieties which look like good pollinators but once inspected inside, they show an empty synconium, no gall flowers but plenty of male flowers with pollen..farmers discard these figs for lack of wasps to convey the pollen to the female trees. When there was the mentioning of viable seeds from Caprifigs I thought of the Mammoni, the only crop with female flowers eventually pollinated by wasps when they moving in after leaving the previous crop (Profichi) and this to happen sometime during the month of July or August for late Profichi Francisco

HarveyC

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Posted 1400256708	Reply with quote #44

Sorry, yes, I should have said, the persistence should be evaluated on the profichi crop. __________________ Harvey - Correia Farms Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14 http://www.figaholics.com https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

rcantor

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Posted 1400284945	Reply with quote #45

Thanks! Please let us know. Aaron, are you game to ask the church people if they'll let you try the same thing as Harvey's doing? __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1400306171	Reply with quote #46

Francisco, regarding this tree being off a month or so... would the early wasp release benefit surrounding local breba crops of any type of bifera figs? either Common, San Pedro or Smyrna? This Church Capri is a confused one for sure... but I will follow further with her and see how long her wasp season lasts, this is an important issue to me ... Bob, what do you want me to do exactly? I have full access to the tree, not to worry, just tell me when and what to do. OK guys, shell I remove the post #38 in order to concentrate only on the Church Capri Tree, so, we don't get confused with the Beverly Hills Capri that does NOT produce wasps? Because that one has a different dates involved with Mamme and Profichi than the Church Capri.

lampo

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Posted 1400310875	Reply with quote #47

Aaron, My understanding is that brebas (any brebas) will not accept, nor need waps. They are already ripe or about to be at that time . Regarding your post #38, pls keep all your records.. My big question on this post relates to the development of the figs shown at that date (March 23rd) The smaller and last pic on this post, shows: -That those 'green' figs are excessively large to be Profichi, which would be smaller, glossy and 'solid' ! -Mamme (winter figs) at that date do not sport those colors nor shape neither appear on a similar association..... they look some other wild fig , hollow, not a Caprifig. A cutaway of one of those fruits would be required to bring some light on the subject. Francisco

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1400344894	Reply with quote #48

Francisco, I think you are taking about the tree in this thread..Do I have a Caprifig?

rcantor

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Posted 1400354107	Reply with quote #49

Well, first of all I'm not going to tell you what to do but I will, with the help of Harvey and Francisco, dream and scheme and enlist your help. The overall purpose is to find as many persistant caprifigs as possible to use in breeding and see what characteristics each brings to the table. Your 'Mission', should you choose to accept it, is to 1. Find out if any caprifig you meet is persistent or not 2. Bring some wasp bearing caprifigs to the BevHills caprifig tree to see if it can start producing wasps on its own. 3. Mail me cuttings (at the right time) and wasp laden caprifigs (at the right time) until I have my own colony of wasp bearing caprifig trees. I am prepared to help with expenses for 1 & 2 and reward you handsomely for #3, of course :) I don't think there needs to be much secrecy here for what I plan to do. If 1000 of us did exactly the same thing we'd all get different results. That's the nature of genetics. Harvey may have more sophisticated stuff up his sleeve :) Now if any of you have friends with a genetics lab it would be great to have them develop a non-destructive test for the heterozygous Pp seeds. That would save a lot of time! For step 1, Harvey's the expert there. You'd have to cover a few of the tiny profichi with a plastic or organza bag to see if they drop when not entered by wasps. Harvey, Francisco, we'll need you to fill in the details. __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

rcantor

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Posted 1400354437	Reply with quote #50

Francisco, is it possible that Aaron's climate may have more variability than yours and that would cause some variation in times of 'off-wasping' (like off-gassing :- ) Or wasp emergence between different cultivars of caprifigs? I'm would guess that a cooler climate than yours would have later wasp emergence, wouldn't it? And a warmer climate might have emergence sooner? __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

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