Cara Lisa - smyrna

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lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,060

Posted 1438957272	Reply with quote #1

An old and popular variety in some rural areas of the western counties. Sweet and flavored (melon?) , crunchy and syrupy. Name : - Cara Lisa Francisco Portugal

elin

Registered:1360863025
Posts: 1,271

Posted 1438962435	Reply with quote #2

Thanks Amazing exterior color and interior. The cracks are lovely. I need to get hold of these wasps ! __________________ Eli ,Israel ,Zone 10? Too humid and hot, yada yada yada https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1298814119 Growing: Sbayi, Hmadi, Black Portugal, Black Brazil,Excell, Flanders, Hmari , RDB, Niagra Black,Natalina, CDDN,Maya, Preto Torres, Preto Arge

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1438962768 · Edited	Reply with quote #3

Wonderful photos and figs, like always, Francisco. I am also a lover of these figs with the skin full of cracks - love the "Coll de Dame de Ciutat" - in this one the cracks look like a spider web. Cara Lisa - Is this the one that may be similar to Bomfim? __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

figpig_66

Registered:1416870358
Posts: 2,678

Posted 1438973171	Reply with quote #4

Will my Smyrna purple produce fig with out the wasp. By the way your figs you post ate always so nice. __________________ RICHIE BONI HICKORY LOUISIANA ZONE 8B WARM HUMID WINRERS ARE VERY MILD LOW 20'S BUT WARMS RIGHT UP DURING THE DAY. SUMMER IS EXTREMELY HOT & HUMID 100 degrees 100% humidity fig tree grow like crazy but some split from rain & humidity Wish list. Col de dame blanc Col de rimada Lsu numbered figs

HarveyC

Registered:1212433117
Posts: 3,294

Posted 1438980895	Reply with quote #5

Beautiful, Francisco! Ritchie - Nope __________________ Harvey - Correia Farms Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14 http://www.figaholics.com https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

ChrisK

Registered:1415844271
Posts: 937

Posted 1438987370	Reply with quote #6

Beautiful figs Francisco. Thanks for sharing. __________________ ChrisK Atl GA Zone 7b-8a

figpig_66

Registered:1416870358
Posts: 2,678

Posted 1438987903	Reply with quote #7

Quote: Originally Posted by HarveyC Beautiful, Francisco! Ritchie - Nope I was told it would. Well its still a nice looking tree for the yard. Wont add it to the feild :(( __________________ RICHIE BONI HICKORY LOUISIANA ZONE 8B WARM HUMID WINRERS ARE VERY MILD LOW 20'S BUT WARMS RIGHT UP DURING THE DAY. SUMMER IS EXTREMELY HOT & HUMID 100 degrees 100% humidity fig tree grow like crazy but some split from rain & humidity Wish list. Col de dame blanc Col de rimada Lsu numbered figs

lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,060

Posted 1438989582	Reply with quote #8

Thank you all for your kind comments. Eli, In a way they look a Sbayi but not the cracks! Jaime, Bomfim is in between this and Sof.tradicional. Hopefully it will not require pollination. Richard, The point is that local climate and soils are ideal for fig culture Today's cultivars are the result of many years of an ongoing selection of the best fruit. but many were lost for good. Francisco Portugal

andreas

Registered:1401724296
Posts: 372

Posted 1439017672	Reply with quote #9

great pictures Francisco thanks for the info. and all your hard work. __________________ andreas-patras Patra Peloponnisos Greece zone..9a

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1439027009	Reply with quote #10

Hi figpig_66, You may get 2 out of 50 figs like I did with my Ice Crystal last year. If I get the same problem this year with IC, she's out to dry in the sun and will be replaced in October by a productive tree! I still want to give IC a chance a I wouldn't like to remove IC if it proved to be able to be productive in my Zone7. __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

Vladis

Registered:1390659900
Posts: 352

Posted 1439027788	Reply with quote #11

jdfrance, IC send cuttings in October in Russia. I am interested in the experiment with the variety. __________________ Зона 8Б ,Туапсе, Россия.

nelson20vt

Registered:1259864353
Posts: 1,847

Posted 1439041460	Reply with quote #12

Wow those figs look great. __________________ Mississauga, ON, Canada Z5B/6A

Bass

Registered:1188959030
Posts: 2,428

Posted 1439042530	Reply with quote #13

She's a pretty lady. __________________ Pennsylvania http://www.treesofjoy.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/Trees-of-Joy/110193909021138

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1439042559	Reply with quote #14

Thank you Francisco. You are blessed to be in Portugal. __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1439043691	Reply with quote #15

>>Bomfim is in between this and Sof.tradicional. Hopefully it will not require pollination. Thanks, Francisco. I was under the impression that, being similar to Cara Lisa or Sofeno Tradicional, for sure, it needed pollination - that's good news, at least for know, until i can secure the wasps. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,060

Posted 1439046764	Reply with quote #16

Thank you fellows for your kind comments. Nelson, You were the first to bring up this name to the forum some years back on a list of local figs. Bass, Thank you. Bear in mind that here Brebas and figs are all male gender... The Spanish, politely tell Brebas are girls and figs are guys! Jsacadura, Right! We have to set up a plan to try and relocate some insects 300Km North. Last February spotted a small caprifig a few Km NE of Evora right at an old railway crossing near a house in ruin . There were not many figs (Mamme) in this tree but all had full galls with developing wasps. Couldn't believe it.. They may be already migrating north by themselves. as we speak (?) Francisco Portugal

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1439076038	Reply with quote #17

Francisco, >>They may be already migrating north by themselves. as we speak (?) Probably. But if they are still in Évora i can't wait until they get here - just joking... :-) It seems that your Caprifig Code 2 cutting, that i grafted, took and is developing nicely. Maybe next year it will already have some figs receptive to wasps. I still haven't had the time to try to find a caprifig tree in this region. Never noticed one until now, but next week i will make a few runs, just in case i get lucky.. . __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,060

Posted 1439115543	Reply with quote #18

That could be an accident...birds travelling up north and finding shelter on those ruins What you could do as well was to plant 3 ou 4 hundred fertile seeds on a selected area early spring and then wait.. (have plenty of seeds) Caprifig code 2 is very prolific, colorful and a good provider of pollen+insects. See what it looks like by the day of - São João - June 24 Not less than 500 insects and a big bush of male flower loaded with pollen Francisco Portugal

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1439125780 · Edited	Reply with quote #19

Very nice colors, Francisco. Can't wait to have those beauties growing and full of wasps to pollinate my figs. >>What you could do as well was to plant 3 ou 4 hundred fertile seeds on a selected area early spring and then wait.. (have plenty of seeds) That a good idea. I have a small piece of land (with quite rocky and not very fertile soil) - a couple of miles from here, with some very old fig trees, that i have to investigate further - and that could accommodate without problem some caprifig trees. Last year i gathered some cuttings from each tree and i am currently rooting them, so i can preserve and investigate those varieties. The trees are very old, some already very weak and fragile and when i have the time to go there i find that the birds didn't leave me any figs to taste or photograph. My wife grandmother talked about a big white fig Moscatel Branco, and at least two large Black figs, different varieties from what i have here. If i got the time i have to go there to see if i have any figs on the trees and take some pictures. Kind Regards, Jaime __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

nelson20vt

Registered:1259864353
Posts: 1,847

Posted 1439137636	Reply with quote #20

Olá Francisco, you are right my goal was to discover those old varieties with photos of fruits and leaves and you have absolutely filled that goal. My hats off to you my friend thank you. __________________ Mississauga, ON, Canada Z5B/6A

lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,060

Posted 1439151355	Reply with quote #21

Jaime, May I dare to say ..'Please set up an operation -fig rescue- to save those long forgotten fruit !! There are a number of excellent strains of Pingo de Mel with some specific particularities and some of them for some reason bring about the name Moscatel for their sweetness and fine flavors.. In my area there are a couple of them both light and dark .. And the ... 'at least two dark figs' ...as you say,.. just put my 3 lone hairs upright!! In your shoes I would do my very best to bring those trees back to life again and to identify/show those fruit, particularly the black figs If left on their own for years, with a bit of luck, you may also be surprised to find several natural air-layers, which appear on the lower curved limbs touching the soil and retaining dust/old leaves, debris, and some humidity around that area (a rich and natural compost) and if left for several months without moving much they shall create strong roots and sprout new trees you may uproot to replant. Hi Nelson Long time no talk! Hope you and Family doing fine. Out of your list with fig names from 3 years ago (?) had managed to root a dozen of those old varieties but lost some by the time the farm changed hands.. Trying now to repeat the exercise in pots. Francisco Portugal

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1439151678	Reply with quote #22

Hi, is there a map of the presence of the fig-wasp in Portugal ? I would think that you have the wasp near the ocean, from the South up to North. So you should have it already. Do you known "Montemor o velho" ? ... You should make a visit there ... __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1439164006 · Edited	Reply with quote #23

Hi Francisco, >>'Please set up an operation -fig rescue- to save those long forgotten fruit !!.. >>you may also be surprised to find several natural air-layers.. Last year i went there and took several cuttings that have rooted. Also one of the trees had branches that had naturally created a air layer (the lower curved limbs), has you said - i think is the Moscatel variety. I managed to bring back two of them to replant - not much root but they are doing fine. The problem - there where no figs in the trees - so i couldn't confirm the varieties i took. They are all labeled, but with code names - so i am going to return there and if they, hopefully, have some figs, i can finally label them correctly, take some pictures and try to identify the varieties. _______________________________________ Hi, jdsfrance, Probably we should have caprifigs and wasps all over the country and not only near the coast, but unfortunatelly, i don't think anyone has ever made a map of their distribution - figs are not important, as far as our Ministry of Agriculture is concerned. Nevertheless, near where i am i have still to find a caprifig tree. Every piece of farm land over here is used to grow vegetables. Very few fruit trees, except for apples and pears that are grow industrially - not much space for other types of trees. The occasional planted fig tree, by local farmers, is rare and not one is a Smyrna type. So, without wasps and viable seeds no caprifig trees nearby - if they where already here i would benefit from them, as all my Sand Pedro Fig trees shed their second crop because of lack of pollination. I have to make a few runs and try to find one. You say to search in Montemor-o-Velho? Its about 100 km from where i am. Maybe i will - thanks for the tip. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1439194277	Reply with quote #24

Hi Jsacadura, No, you can't have the wasp everywhere. There are montains, and cold areas in Portugal, especially near Viseu or far (100 km) from the ocean. There, it happens to freeze at night even in July and August - and that kills the wasps and ruins the figs. Of course in a yard against a building, you still can try something, but in the wild, fig trees can't make it in such conditions, and I don't even mention the perpetual summer wild fires . If you don't have wild figs, there might be some climatological reasons for that. I've been in Southern France too and there if climate allows, fig trees will grow in walls and you never get rid of them. Of course, those unattended don't fruit at their best ... As I often say, I'd rather give 10 or 20 bucks for a known tree of a documented strain (still some discoveries although sometimes) than try random trees, but if you have land to try them ... and don't have other access to new fig trees . Last time I looked for a nursery in Portugal, I couldn't find one... So that didn't help . __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1439197436 · Edited	Reply with quote #25

Hi, jdsfrance, >>There are montains, and cold areas in Portugal, especially near Viseu or far (100 km) from the ocean. There, it happens to freeze at night even in July and August - and that kills the wasps and ruins the figs. Freezing at night in Portugal in July and August? Only if its a very unusual year. Normally, in the Summer months we don't have any freezing temperatures, even in the coldest regions in the North. For example, today's temperatures in Viseu are 33 º C (91 ºF) highest and 18 ºC lowest (64 ºF) and similar for the next 15 days forecast - they where higher in July. Nevertheless, you are probably right. I don't know if the wasps (the larvae at this winter stage?) can survive a cold winter even inside the protection of the figs. If i manage to develop my caprifig cuttings and manage to get the wasps, it will be a good experiment to see how they do. The lowest temperatures over here, usually don't go below -4 ºC (25 ºF) during the coldest nights (i don't know what is the temperature inside the figs in a sheltered location in this conditions) I wonder what's the lowest temperatures the larvae of the wasps can endure. I know, for a fact, from a Spanish friend, that in a mountainous region in Spain called Sierra de la Contraviesa, they have a large fig production of a Smyrna type fig used for drying. And they have lots of caprifig trees about. I have to ask him what are the lowest temperatures they have there. >>If you don't have wild figs, there might be some climatological reasons for that. I didn't say i don't have wild figs over here. I simply hadn't found any nearby (yet i hope), at least within a 1-2 km radius, but that maybe because of the reasons i pointed out - every piece of land over here is cultivated in organized faction, no abandoned sites. And the few fig trees are all cultivated and non Smyrna types. I will search further in the next few weeks and hopefully i get lucky. >>As I often say, I'd rather give 10 or 20 bucks for a known tree of a documented strain (still some discoveries although sometimes) than try random trees, but if you have land to try them ... and don't have other access to new fig trees . Last time I looked for a nursery in Portugal, I couldn't find one... So that didn't help . I understand your line of thought. Rarely random trees produce good fruits. Some nurseries (with website presence) that sell figs in Portugal (usually only within the country): Viveiros Albar (Bacorinho, Chateaux Kennedy, Bêbera Preta, Moscatel Preto, Pingo de Mel, Nazareth, Panachee) Viveiros Castromil (only Pingo de Mel and Bêbera Preta) Viveiros Plantula (Lampa Preta, Maia, Princesa, Pingo de Mel, Palmares, Bêbera Branca and more - they don't sell online though) Attached Images Viseu_10_Agosto.JPG (71.46 KB, 9 views) __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1439202846 · Edited	Reply with quote #26

An interesting chart i found. I wonder if its accurate (in "Insects and Spiders of the World. volume 4): __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

Vladis

Registered:1390659900
Posts: 352

Posted 1439203095	Reply with quote #27

Jsacadura, __________________ Зона 8Б ,Туапсе, Россия.

Vladis

Registered:1390659900
Posts: 352

Posted 1439203179	Reply with quote #28

The photo above is a wasp -blastofagi live in Tuapse, where every year there are temperature -10-12 degrees Celsius. __________________ Зона 8Б ,Туапсе, Россия.

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1439204140 · Edited	Reply with quote #29

Thank you, Vladis. That is very enlightening and clears any of my doubts regarding the possibility of having wasps over here. An interesting article about Insect Cold Hardiness i found with strategies they use to survive freezing temperatures: http://http-server.carleton.ca/~kbstorey/insects.htm Sorry for the off-topic, guys. Specially you, Francisco - i got a litlle caried away by the caprification theme. __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,060

Posted 1439216810	Reply with quote #30

In our temperate climates the problems originated by temperature and affecting Caprifig survival do not come from the occasional frosts or snow/ice ..down to -4 to -6ºC or evem lower Think that the amount of flesh insulation built around the fruit cavity (Profichi) and the thermal gain radiated from hundreds of living creatures inside, keep the inside temps quite manageable. The problem is IMO. is right on the opposite side of the thermometer scale ! Have observed on some years, that 'heat waves' brought by strong SE winds (right from the Sahara across the Strait) do cause excessive temperatures reaching well over 30 to 35ºC around the fruit by the end of March and April. This will definitely kill practically all insects. The figs will turn yellowish immediately after the larvae are killed, shrink/dry and fall to the ground Very few figs, on the more protected limbs, under the shades will survive .Those are poor years for pollination and the southern farmers along the centuries have devised a strategy to try and diminish the damage. Francisco Portugal

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1439369279 · Edited	Reply with quote #31

Thanks for that last information, Francisco. I should be alright then with the introduction of the wasps, come next year - the problem here could be the cold, but never too much heat - we go above 35 ºC (95 ºF) on some very hot summer days only. My Spanish friend in "Sierra de la Contraviesa", a region known for the extensive use of Caprifigs in the production of a white type of fig, used mainly for drying ( Blanca de Pasa), has confirmed that his wasps have to endure freezing minimum temperatures that, in some years, can reach -10 ºC (14 ºF) and lower, and that he is only at 1.000 m. Acording to him, there are other farmers with caprifigs and Smyrna type figs on the top of the mountain and some on the Sierra Nevada, with temperatures even colder. A Spanish PDF on the figs of that region - on page 8 we can see a photo of the caprifigs placed on a fig tree of "Blanca de Pasa" - i have a cutting of this variety of Smyrna type fig in development. They mainly use one variety of caprifig that local farmers call "De perilla": http://www.agroecologia.net/recursos/publicaciones/publicaciones-online/2006/CD%20Congreso%20Zaragoza/Ponencias/15%20L%C3%B3pez%20Agudo%20Com-%20Localizaci%C3%B3n.pdf __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,060

Posted 1439380679	Reply with quote #32

Jaime, this is quite interesting In that area the climate is mild although being slightly above 3000' I was not aware they forced pollination on that variety most probably for sake of gaining good crunchy flavors on these small dried figs. Found that a sample town in the area (Los Morales) shows this average yearly climate, which I believe quite close to your place excepting altitude. http://www.chinci.com/travel/pax/q/2515946/La+Fuente+de+Los+Morales/ES/Spain/0/#1\|5\|travel\|pax\|5\|2515946\|La%20Fuente%20De%20Los%20Morales\|ES\|Spain\|Africa/Ceuta\|51\|PPL\|36.9666667\|-2.6833333\|Andalusia Their Caprifig could be a good candidate for your zone as I believe it ripens somehow at a later date. Francisco Portugal

Jsacadura

Registered:1419781955
Posts: 346

Posted 1439410953 · Edited	Reply with quote #33

Hi Francisco, >>I was not aware they forced pollination on that variety most probably for sake of gaining good crunchy flavors on these small dried figs. You are probably right. Nevertheless, he says this particular type of fig is a Smyrna - but also that no one studied it and because that are so many caprifigs around the area, nobody really knows. If they don't bring the caprifigs near the figtrees the production is lower - they do it 2-3 times during fig maturation, according to the number of figs that took and their rate of development. In the publication i mentioned they say that the caprification is essential to the non partenocarpic varieties in the area - but, in the supplied list, they don't specify which ones are Smyrna. >>Their Caprifig could be a good candidate for your zone as I believe it ripens somehow at a later date. I already have a cutting rooted. Here he is, alongside a Blanca de Pasa - a bit of what appears to be FMV on the first leafs, but seems better know (the small cutting was in a very bad shape, i am surprised it rooted): I also have two other varieties that are mentioned in the text - "Brevera Blanca de la Contraviesa" y "Cuello de Paloma negra o Calabacilla negra" __________________ Jaime - Zone 9b - near Caldas da Rainha - Portugal Wish List: São Luís, Valamandil, Sofeno Tradicional, Cótio, Cavaleiro, Belmandil, Coll de Dame de Ciutat, Strawberry Verte, Marabout, Sihagi.

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