A friend sent me this great article.

Airing out the truth on dissolved oxygen in hydroponics / Just 4 Growers

http://www.just4growers.com/stream/hydroponic-growing-techniques/airing-out-the-truth-on-dissolved-oxygen-in-hydroponics.aspx

  By sharing successes and failures, we hope to guide other's paths around the pitfalls of our hard-learned lessons.  But, again, it's the smallest of unbeknownst deviations that I continue to believe is all that is necessary to alter a successful recipe, hence, my caveat in adopting all of these 'Better Mousetraps' remains: Your Mileage May Vary! 

   (I eagerly adopted the cloners, as I have had just a little smidgen of experience with hydro-ag, having pioneered and operated an aquaponic operation in the past as a side-line business.)

   Here is my personal reason for shying from the practice of using Hydrogen Peroxide in these cloners:

    Contrary to some advocates persuasive argument, H2O2 does not merely enrich the oxygen in the plant's water.  Peroxide is citotoxic. (It kills both plant and animal cells.  Particularly newly formed cells)  As an intensive care RN, I realize that peroxide was at one time used to disinfect superficial wounds.  This practice ceased after studies revealed how toxic the solution was to newly-forming cells at the wound site, and that the substance promoted scaring.  In addition, gram-negative bacteria, responsible for the production of endotoxins, and which utilize a substance close to peroxide for their cell duplication, are highly adaptive at becoming resistant to antibiotics, and have been found to utilize the low-dosage hydrogen peroxide to develop a resistance to it, thereby becoming immune to its disinfectant properties.  These bacteria, responsible for many pneumonias, would then thrive in the cloner environment. 

  Anyway...   this was my reason for using chlorine vs hydrogen peroxide.  I was unfortunately oblivious to the fact that my chosen product had been adulterated with lye.


   Who knows?.......   these little guys may survive despite my efforts to kill them all off.

 

Would it not be better to use an air pump and stone to oxygenate the water. I have to believe the less chemical the better. JMO.

I'm terribly confused as to why there is any need to oxygenate the water.

The cloner sprays water/mist at the roots which are otherwise fully exposed.  How much more air could be needed?

Andrew (the 'not the science guy')

Thanks Blue!

The reason I add hydrogen peroxide is because my hydroponics shop told me too. They said, it cuts down on the bacteria and alge build up. With the tiny amount I add, I seriously doubt it is helping. The cuttings don't stay in the cloner longer than 8 weeks. However, if I left them in longer, I know alge build up will be massive.

I should have been more clear.  I understand the desire to reduce harmful mold/bacteria/other growth.  I'm questioning the rationale behind 'it adds more oxygen'.

Andrew

  Dennis, I hope that you didn't take my post as criticizing your practice.  The proof of your success is in your plants.  I'm in awe of your accomplishments.

   I purposely began the post by saying :   Here is my personal reason for shying from the practice of using Hydrogen Peroxide in these cloners. 

  I've learned a massive amount of knowledge from the experience of those that contribute here, and would be the last one to believe that I know more than anyone else.

   Blue

No. I didn't Blue. It's all good! Thank you for your kind words. I'm so glad to see others are having success with these cloners. I just had to share what I did.

Hey Jerry,

I just use the test kit for my swimming pool.  The lowest color on the chlorine scale is equal to 0.5 ppm.  They make another kit that will read down to 0.2ppm but it is a lot more expensive.  You can probably eyeball 0.25 ppm if you want.  You don't need the entire kit I have for the cloner.  This one is the cheapest that reads free chlorine, which is what you want to know for disinfecting power.

http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Basic-Residential-Pool-Water/dp/B00305A0QG/ref=sr_1_63?ie=UTF8&qid=1453343565&sr=8-63&keywords=taylor+test+kit

You won't be able to use the PH portion of it since it only reads from 7 to 8 and optimal for plants is more like 5.5 to 6.5 ish.  I posted a link to a good PH adjustment kit a while ago in this thread.

Hey Dennis,

you are probably correct about over thinking the cloner thing.  But then again, the cloner thing at all is over thinking rooting figs.  Mai's bag technique looks "dirt" simple and also seems to solve the fungus gnat issue.  But for me I am interested in the cloner for cloning green cuttings of other plants as well as the figs.  I may or may not continue to use the pool shock in the future.  It has definitely taken care of my slime issue.  The question for me is does it retard or damage the cuttings in any way?  It is no big deal for me to add it and gives me something to do while the cuttings root.  I agree it is probably not needed at all if the reservoir temperature is kept cool enough.  I turned the temperature up a little on mine thinking it would accelerate the rooting process.  It seems to have definitely accelerated the slime growing process.


Dan

Hi,
I read in a post, that people were adding clonex to the water/ on cuttings.
Normally, it is written on those products "don't breath near the bottle", "don't touch/avoid skin contact" , "wear gloves".
With the cloner you're spraying the water and the chemicals into the air ... Probably not a good idea ... Rooting hormones are not a safe product - it is a dangerous one when misused - read the label.
Chlorines are ok in the water, but I wouldn't use rooting hormones - just my take on it - stay safe .

As for oxygen in the water, for the exotic fishes, we use the bubblers to turn "nitrites" to "nitrates" and break the crust that may appears on the surface of the water. Refer to the cycle of nitrogen in the water. The breakdown is done by bacterias that one needs to introduce to the tank first. They call that process: to cycle the tank.
"Nitrites" are not usable by plants and can kill fishes. "Nitrates/nitrogen" are used by the plants in the tanks, so is safer.
In the cloner, as long as you replace some water every week, you should be safe. If you don't, the first problem might be a bad smell from the water after say a month of making no replacement at all. Algae growth produces a bad smell after a while.

Dennis, about how much peroxide do you use...estimated?

Meg,
A teaspoon every 3 days.

Sorry to jump in late, but that link posted in #251 is soo very wrong.  The author asserts that "if we bubble air through the water then we raise the pH and force the DO level down over time". I've taken enough aquaculture courses to know that's very very wrong. I'm suspect of most of that article.

In my opinion - I wouldn't use bleach or hypochlorite in a reservoir.  Peroxides in small doses are better. Both will oxidize roots, which isn't a great thing. 

In soil, I've seen calcium peroxide used when planting trees - it slowly breaks down and provides additional oxygen in the soil which the roots appreciate. But most of it's oxidizing power is used up on the organic matter in the soil, not on the roots.

As for air in a cloner - if your cloner is a sealed box, you need to introduce air somehow. An air pump will do the trick. Some cloners run a fan. Otherwise the oxygen levels will drop as it's consumed by the cuttings and bacteria.

Ok, I'll get off my box and stop preaching now ;-}

Matt, it is not preaching. I for one appreciate all the imput given as this is totally new to me. Thanks

Matt, it's all good.  I don't think you're preaching.  All comments are welcome.  Thank you.

Blue - Yeah I think i'll be there. I hear they have cider apple scions.....

OK Fine!  You guys are freaking me out.  I just changed out the water and dropped the temperature to 68 degrees.  I guess that is where water holds the most oxygen?

Anyway I will see how this goes.  I am slapping in some cuttings from my Osborn Prolific for an experiment.  I will get the cuttings nice and full of roots, then I will soak one of them in plain water and the other in water laced with the pool shock at 0.5 ppm.  I will then take lots of pictures and document what happens to each of the cuttings.


Dan

I am a little behind everyone, but my cloner is coming along.  I was surprised at how long it took me considering the idea is so simple.  The devil was in the details.  Cutting the holes in the lid was easy, but de-burring and sanding the holes to make sure the plastic chips didn't clog the spray nozzles was quite the pain.  As with everyone else who purchased the Lowes special, my lid leaked.  I double wrapped in weather stripping and the leak is almost gone.  But when I check the basement floor, I see a dark circle meaning there is a tiny drip.  I am running the system with bleach and water tonight, then I will rinse and run tomorrow night.  Should be ready to go by Sunday.  But now I am afraid to put all my cuttings in as I don't want to kill them with temperature, oxygen, negative ions, free radicals, or some other strange issue.  I think I will do one cutting of each plant and hold some back.  The spring is still a long time off.  I also bought PVC pipes to create an enclosure and hang grow lights.  I want to see how the plants progress post cuttings.  From what I've read, that's when plants benefit from this system.  Getting close!  I purchased peat plugs that are supposed to be for growing seeds.  I may have tomatoes by March!

Andrew, could you post some more info on the peat plug you purchased for the cloners. Thanks