Hello fellow figgers! Looking for a little advice here about the hardiness of cole de dame blanc and jh adriatic. I live in zone 6b (new jersey) I have a spot on my south facing wall where I would like to plant a high quality green fig to contrast the existing vdb. These varieties have both been getting such high reviews I was thinking of purchasing one or the other if they would survive here. The planting bed is somewhat of a microclimate as the snow melts here long before the rest of the yard and it is shielded from the north winds.
Which fig would you reccomend if any for being cold hardy?
If any of you grow both what one do you prefer to eat?
Thanks,
Chad

Hi Chad - one thing to consider is the vigor of the plant.  JH Adriatic seems to be a better grower than CdDB for most of us anyway.  Other Col de Dames may be better growers than UCD Col de Dame blanc.  As far as cold hardiness I haven't tested them side by side in the ground but from reading other's experiences I would expect JH Adriatic to be somewhat more cold hardy.  However, if you planted a CdDB that had been grown in a container for 3+ years it might be fine when grown against a south facing wall, especially if you protect it to some degree.  Finally, there's the timing of fruit ripening - CdDB is a very late fig in our area, especially when grown in the ground.  Some years you might not get much fruit though it might start to ripen fruit earlier with age.  Bottom line - JHA is probably the better choice for the in-ground spot but consider growing CdDB in a container.

Read my lips for our NJ climate,a green fig ,"No frills",is Adriatic JH.
It will compete with the best there is,in everything,Taste flavor,ability to fight our difficult climate!.

OK guys thanks for the responses. It seems that JH Adriatic may be the better choice for my climate and I am probably going to hunt a cutting of one down soon. After doing some searching on the JH I am a little confused however. From what I gathered the JH Adriatic tree is not really a Adriatic fig, or at least not a (UCD Adriatic) but was thought to be of that variety in the beginning. Please correct me if I am wrong, The fig tree I am looking for is the one that was grown in John Hoods yard than distributed to Encanto and has predominately 3 lobed leaves, rather than the (UCD Adriatic) that has FMV and larger 5 to 7 lobed leaves. Also, Am I correct in assuming that JH Adriatic most of you have and love are of the predominate 3 lobed variety that is not a true Adriatic? Sorry for all the questions but I want to make sure I'm going to get the right one.
Thanks,
Chad

I agree with Rewton and Herman and can add no more to their judicious comments. The correct name is Adriatic JH and yes it was originally grown near Houston by forum member Dr Joe Hood. The name is a misnomer as it is not related to the Adriatic from UCD. This variety has become fairly easy to find. KK in NJ usually sells some in spring on ebay so be patient. The only thing you need to know is that it has truly superior flavor and is cold hardier than CdD Blanc. Cuttings are also easy to come by. My plants are quite young or I'd hook you up.

Rafael - thanks for the correction.  I can never remember whether to put the JH at the beginning or at the end!

Thanks for the input fellas.
If anyone wants to trade or has one to sell let me know. I might even try both and put the Adriatic JH in the ground and the CdDB in a container.
Thanks again,
Chad

PepperMan :The true Adriatic,is way inferior to Adriatic JH, in everything, health cold resistance ,vigor productivity,adaptability.
Remember:You are not going to grow them in a ideal climate,(Fresno,Ca)but a difficult one( NJ).
Adriatic JH is god sent for us in NJ,so we can have it possible to grow a white fig,that will ripe here,and be decent tasting.

Chad,
If you want to try another green fig of great quality that will compete with both of these for hardiness and quality you might consider Battaglia Green.
I grow all three of these in 15 gallon containers right next to each other and all three are excellent.
So far (they are still young - 5 years or so) the Adriatic JH has been more productive then any of the 3 CdD B's I have and it is about the same as the BG.

The one thing that is different so far between the AJH and the BG is the AJH has ripened very good brebas the last 2 years. I like the flavor of the BG better but it's very close between all 3.

Below is my ripening list from this year and a few photos that are really bad. I take pictures of all my figs that ripen and this year I paid little attention to the quality of the print.

My favorite figs are the green ones with the super dark red inside that have a strong berry flavor. I pulled out the photos of a couple other varieties for you to consider. These are figs I would list along with the AJH and CdDB for flavor and pulp color. This is just FYI and I'm not suggesting you plant these instead of the 2 varieties you are currently looking at.
I am also not saying these are the best figs I grow -- only that these are very good figs that are also green with very dark red pulp.

 Fig Ripening List 2014.docx    

Again these photos are not ones I would ever publish and were just taken to supplement my memory. The sizes are not necessarily the mean sizes of the crop last year.     
       
Blanch de Deux Saissons
Brooklyn White
Ischia Green
CdD B
AJH
Battaglia Green

I think any of these varieties should be considered excellent and all are certainly on my must have "keepers" list.
mgg

Hey Michael, how does Blanch de Deux Saissons compare to the others. I have all the others, would it be worthwhile to add BdDS?

My understanding is that Battaglia Green is not especially cold hardy for in ground. If you want one, Bills Figs in Flemington, NJ is one of the only places to buy the real deal.

Michael, thanks for providing the ripening list!  It's great that you were able to get CdDB to ripen around the beginning of September last summer, especially since we had a rather late Spring and less than average heat.  It's also interesting that for you the flavor of BG and AJH is on par with that of CdDB.  Hopefully, I will be able to make this comparison with my own taste buds this year.

Waynea,

Well, let me say this first; I am going to put some cuttings on Ebay for the first time.

Things like Cavaliere -- you know - real high quality but not easy to find varieties.
This offering "splurge" will also include BdDS and whatever else I can narrow down and am willing to honestly say I think the variety is worth bidding on.

So, that being said -- yes -- I absolutely love the look, flavor and production of my BdDS's. 
I posted a much better picture a couple years ago and you should look that one up.

I have 250 varieties and am trying to narrow down 25 for a future grove.
So far I have "found" less then 10 varieties I will definitely include. As I only got figs from half my plants last year it is easy to see that this project will take a few more years (I figure 7 at least. I have been at it since 2007).

Herman said something a couple years ago that I agree with - paraphrasing and it may have been one or three years ago not two as well.

Anyway he said that to sell things on Ebay you should first grow them and get harvests in your own back yard so you can honestly present that variety. This was said in response to something now deleted in a thread that became very heated. It was about certain members claiming on Ebay that certain "rare" figs were worth bidding on when in fact the scion wood had come straight from over seas and had not been grow by the seller. What may be a great fig on a dry island in the Med or the plains of Spain may be a complete flop here.

Not to point fingers or start any ill will as it is not my business to police other's ethics on Ebay - just want to explain why I have waited until now to offer things like Angelique that I have had for a number of years but have been unwilling to sell. It is inferred I believe that if I, for example, sell a fig and make certain claims about it's quality the buyer believes I have a certain amount of experience with that variety. Anyway I do believe unless clearly stated that the seller should not only have the mother tree but the fig picture should be one taken from that mother tree as well.

So -- was that way more then you wanted to read? sorry.

So, yes -- I love BdDS. The green figs with very dark red pulp and strong berry flavor are my favorites. There are certainly other figs that are exceptional that aren't g/r like Ronde de Bordeaux which is an absolute "must have" variety. I will not be offering RdB on Ebay as I sell locally and that variety is excellent for my area and all cuttings will stay here.
mgg
just FYI - my taste notes on BdDS for 2014 were, "very sweet, juicy, strawberry jam,little crunch, very strong flavor".

Rafael, as Michael has written previously Battaglia Green was found many years ago by S. Battaglia growing in-ground in Virginia (probably a zone 7).  I doubt if they protected the tree every year.  Gene Hosey also had it growing in southern Maryland (zone 7b) for several years unprotected and it did great.  So based on that I have thought that BG is relatively cold hardy and planted mine it in ground last Spring.  I'll report on cold damage on all my varieties in a couple months.

Rewton

I look forward to your reports. In the meantime, it is just so darn cold these last few years here in the northeast, and the summers have been nothing to write home about. If I was planting anything in ground in these parts, I would only plant the most cold hardy figs or look for an extra protected microclimate. Anything else you should expect considerable dieback. At least in the near term, the northeast is most definitely exempted from any global warming trends.

Yes, it is frustrating that 2014 was the warmest year ever recorded world-wide but in eastern north america it was brutal during the winter with not a very warm summer either.  I keep looking at the 10 day forecast hoping for consistently warming temps but so far I'm not seeing any sign of Spring here!

Battaglia Green was in ground unprotected at Folly Castle for at the very least 75 years and quite possibly since 1783. There is a lot of history here that I've posted before.
I got mine from a member who's family has been growing this variety since before WWll, and has been active and very knowledgable about the tree that was at Folly Castle.  

The fig was originally from Folly Caslte in Petersburg Virginia.
I do not know if the nursery Rafael mentioned has one of the "true" BG's or not, but if the one he is selling is not very hardy perhaps he has a different variety.

I know I have one of the Folly Castle ones and those are the real ones. As the variety was "introduced" by Paradise nursery here in Virginia and they have closed there is no way to ask them for further clarification. 

I gave one to Monticello and I think they'll start calling it the "Folly Castle" fig as that is a much more accurate name.
Several years ago I gave out a lot of cuttings to folks who wanted to make sure that the BG they had was from Folly Castle.

It is my understanding that the Battaglia Green is a hardy fig but my first hand experience is only with trees I bring in in the winter, but there certainly seems to be folks in this area that leave them out here in zone 7.

I sell trees locally and I certainly hear about any deaths as folks want replacements. I sold one in 2012, 14 in 2013 and 2 in 2014 and so far have not had anyone call about problems. I also supplied at least 15 f4f members with cuttings and only had to replace one set and that was due to the cuttings being neglected according to that member.

mgg

Steve, I have grown CdDB from 5 different sources (but how closely related is the question as they may all have originally been UDC stock) and as you know my little project here is to find the varieties/cultivars that work the best here. If I did a ripening list that listed individual trees it would look very different. The list is first ripe fig from any tree of that variety. For example my #3 large CdDN produces brebas and is earlier and much more productive then my other 2 large CdDNs. If this continues for 2 more years then I will get rid of the slow pokes.
Steve I wonder sometimes if the fact that that CdDB was in the front southern facing row and in an unprotected black pot may have helped as last summer was not very warm. I also watered either in the AM or late afternoon instead of at lunch so the pots weren't cooled off like they are usually. I also had a lot of my pots sitting on black plastic which gave them additional heat.

Good philosophy and explanation Michael, not too long at all. I will be on the watch for your listings.

Michael

Thank you for the Battaglia facts. Burnt Ridge nursery is the only one selling a documented Battaglia, and they are always out of stock. Bill is not really into pedigree so I have no idea if he sells the real thing. I will send you some pics of mine someday, maybe you can confirm.

W - thx
R - sure, but I have to warn you I'm no expert at ID. If possible try Herman. I could of course send you leaves and a fig or two if you were really serious. My Battaglia Green is taste-wise my absolute favorite fig so if you aren't getting figs very much like CdDB's look into your BG. Those pics above represent a great bunch of figs - really top drawer figs.

Vasile, I agree, Adriatic JH has been the best for us NJ gardeners. what a great fig, thanks to Joe Hood. It has been the overall best fig in my backyard. My question is I haven't found a black fig with such an impact.When I started tasting these incredible white figs it was worth all the hard work that I put into years of selecting. What black fig would you say is at the same level as this Gem. Thank you always for your wisdom.



Anthony

Antonio:I can't say what black fig would be ,as good as Adriatic jh for your particular climate.
Of course there is one,that is just as good and better ,here in my yard,but I am afraid it will not ripe early enough for you because it is a late cultivar and,you are more northern situated compared to here.
The fig I am talking is Italian 258
This past Summer,it was not even colored black as it should be,even here in my location,because ,it was a cool Summer,but it was ,delicious ,at the superlative.
I do not know if you got any spot in your garden with totally full sun,because it is a must,with this cultivar.
Best Regards

Oh no Vasile, don't say that, now I'm going to have to get an Italian 258!

(But really, I'm a green fig girl through and through.)

Donna, 
I am so happy to hear there is another one of us that prefers the green figs! 
I should get figs from a few more varieties that are green w/ dark red pulp this year (like Vasalika Sika, etc.) and that's exciting as the dark green figs with very dark red pulp berry tasting are my absolute favorites.

There are some really good varieties with lighter colored pulp like Marseilles Monticello (which may be a St Anthony - I will compare this year as I finally received my St Anthony).

I bet I'm the only one on this forum with a large collection that has more green figs then dark figs.

Back before so many of the older members left there were a number of "dark fig only" members.