First time trying to root cuttings.

Most of the cuttings are starting to get leaves with no visible roots. Some of the first leaves have turned are dark colour/black and curled up. Some of the cuttings the small leaves fell off. The cuttings are in a humidity bin under a fluorescent light. The rooting medium is perlite and vermiculite. Here are some pictures

First picture the black curled leaves (see red arrows)


next curled leaves and first picture leaf has a little black on it




Leaves fell off


Any help is welcomed.

The first thing, that I will say, at this stage don't move any of them. Just make sure that they are getting enough humidity and do not overwater.
Despite forming leaves, some will make it and some will not. I've had many form leaves and then eventually died. I root mine differently. I never water from above and allow osmosis to do the work. I use different containers and mix and don't like to repot any cuttings the first season if I can. Good Luck.

Yikes - Wee Fishy!  

I'm feeling you here. Painful to see them start then drop off. I'm not as seasoned as some of the others here starting to root cuttings just earlier this year but I had a few do this. I got some to come back and others perished.

One thing I noticed is that while the cutting in the soil (I'll call it that) was humid, the air was so dry  that the tops above ground dried them out and everything above grade dries out and dies.

I've also noticed less success when leaves arrived before roots. It seemed like the cuttings blew everything they had on making the leaves and had nothing left for roots. Still not sure why one starts before the other.

I don't know what mix recipe you're using but, I wouldn't eat it. Could they be nutrient starved? I also had some start to look rough and when watering with a super diluted fertilizer, they came right back.

Some others I had grew leaves that fell off. I waited and no roots. The cuttings didn't look dead and I wanted to save them. I pulled them out to find no roots. I peeled back 2 inches of bark of the bottom and added rooting hormone. 2 weeks later crazy massive roots....Still waiting for more leaves to come back.

Just my $0.02

Good luck. Let me know how it goes....

"Nutrient starved", interesting point Joe. I never thought about this since I always use moisture control soil these days, which has plenty of nutrients in it.

As with most of my input...It's nowhere near scientific as yet. Just that it occurred to me that some of the crazy mixes we use to keep soil light - might also remove a lot of the organic fertilizing properties of normal soil. In my case these cuttings perked right back up with some (again very diluted) fertilizer.

Maybe worth a try. The mix tinyfish is using looks (to me) like sand....Something I add to my outdoor potted mix for drainage...but looks nothing like sand...which this does. That's what made me thing some nutrition might be the trick...I don't think there's much food in sand...

I'd be very curious to know if any roots have sprouted underground. (Don't check! on my account!)

I would spray with a diluted miracle grow mix.

Most of us seem to use a soil-less mixture of one sort or another.

What these seem to lack is the nutrients to promote growth, and nutrient starved as mentioned above.

Once the plants get a bit bigger than shown, I sick in a little slow release 14-14-14 and some lime.

They get a little each time they are watered and is making (a newbie) noticeable difference.

I will also spray, here and there, with plain water, and for the dry winter air as also mentioned earlier.

My plants, dormant, and sprouting cuttings, are in a small washroom with a gas (couldn't be worse for humidity) furnace.

Root end in water longer and Paradigm "M", I believe helped this same issue also.

All this typing and my plants are probably just waiting longer to die this time, lol.

Happy Holidays everyone!

                                          Mike

Tiny, I have to agree with Joe. The cuttings appear to be starving, but not for just nutrients, but for oxygen as well. The mix does appear to be to fine and does resembles sand. When using perlite and vermiculite you want to use a course size. This allows tiny pockets of air for root to grow in. What you have appears to be to fine. Also make sure your cups have holes on the sides as well as the bottom. This will let air in. Good luck.

Hey Mike - Do you spray the leaves and stem with fertilizer as well? I've never done so and just wonder if it helps...

leaves only ( no root ) is "fake" living.
once when the energy is gone, the cutting will die in most cases. 

the best is there are roots first and then leaf out. 
I agree with above remark to add some food to the soil.

I thought it was top heat, more leaves and bottom heat more roots?

I've only started cuttings once (last winter) but I did a fair number (~60) and had pretty good success.

I agree with Pete.  I started mine in the dark.  Damp sphagnum moss in baggies, kept warm.  

I think that light encourages premature leaf growth.  

Leaves and stems.

It is also easier and some will hit the soil. I spray more when the leaves and plant get larger.

I have two shelves with @80 starting on each. Easier means a lot sometimes, lol

Is it hard to tell if your mix is damp being sandy?

If they dry too much once or twice they can weaken and die

Possible to get a closeup side view of cup and stem?

I use "superthrive" product (there are others that are good as well) , one Teaspoon per gallon. At least once a week....maybe it will help you.

I just started 12 cuttings in builders coarse sand in trade gallon nursery pots with a little ( very little) peat moss....out of five that leafed out immediately I lost one and might loose another.

(There was also a cold spell, too much sunlight, all corrected with sports drink bottles on top and heating mats below, as well as better weather I can not claim credit for.).

Point being is they often come back from a lower / different node so long as they don't rot/ mold.

In all 10 out of 12 are looking great.  Never did humidity bins as I live in FL....

I think it's the lights; either lights are too strong or too close to the humidity bin.

If overwatering is the cause, leaves will droop not curl and shrivel like this.

Some varieties can tolerate a strong light (sun or artificial) and some do not.

It is a 18" daylight fluorescent bulb, not sure the wattage. The light was about 1" to 3" higher then the cuttings. Earlier this week I moved it to about 3" to 5" higher. Should it be even higher?

Hi Tinyfish-
Lots of advice coming your way, here's my take, hope it might be helpful....

-#1 enemy of rooting cuttings is too much water in the rooting medium causing cuttings to rot. Vermiculite can get pretty soggy and absorb a lot of water...some folks use straight perlite to root or preroot cuttings I would be hesitant to use vermiculite at more than 20% of a blend, and you could get the same effect by adding in some peat or coir to a perlite base. Maybe try another mix next time? I use promix hp, which is mostly peat and 20% (I think)perlite, and try to keep it just moist, never fully watered. I judge the moisture level by the weight of the container.
-Temperature should be kept between 70-80F.
-I don't ever fertilize until I see some healthy root development, usually a month or more after I direct pot the cuttings.
-Florescent lights can practically touch the leaves without burning them, so I doubt that is your issue.
I have followed Tim Clymer's, Harvey's rooting method for the past couple years and have gotten around 90% success.

Best of luck!

Woah!

OK - Again, I'm no botanist but the sun is a whole lot stronger than any light you could put on a cutting. And tiny suckers grow in some pretty hot areas.

Maybe water...

I must admit I've never seen a mix that looks like that.

One more thing that I just learned from ADelmanto. It's "roots first" and roots come from the nodes. I used to plant them with most of the cutting out of the soil like you. The roots come from the nodes. He advised me...and it makes a lot of sense.... to plant with only one node above ground for the shoot to take off but all other nodes below grade for more root opportunities.

When I think about it....Say a node has a 25% chance of rooting....If you have 1 root below grade that's 1 in 4 that will take...If you have 4 nodes below grade that increases it dramatically. Not to mention less chance of the above ground portion drying out on you. This is just my reasoning...nothing more....But it seems to be working better form me.

I'm planting all my cuttings much deeper now.

I'm starting to mess with temperature now as well so see what effect it has on rooting time.

Last thought. I had some good thick cuttings that just wouldn't take. I peeled back a layer of bark from the bottom few inches (like for air layering) and put them back in the mix. Within a week I got massive, thick roots. I'm going to be trying this a lot more for rooting cuttings...especially the thick ones.

Please keep us updated

Great idea planting them deeper. The cuttings are planted as deep as the cups, I will need to find some deeper cups next time.