Just wondering what everyone's expectations are, if any, when they give a fig cutting, tree, etc. I've learned that some people give unconditionally and are happy/detached with whatever the recipient does with it. Thanks for those kind of people! Others, however, give with conditions which are often, unspoken conditions, and the recipient is somehow just supposed to 'know' what they can/should and cannot/shouldn't do. I honestly give without conditions and if one gives, shouldn't it be without conditions? Otherwise, don't bother giving. It's like handing $100 dollars to the birthday boy or girl and telling him/her what they can and cannot spend it on.

I guess this will easily bring up the whole right vs wrong subject. But, right vs wrong are nothing but cultural and conditioned ways of beliefs. If I were in Asia and I was offered food, it would be considered 'wrong' if I left any food on my plate. Now, if I were in Brazil and I ate all the food on my plate, that would be considered wrong. So, these little wrongs that we have created are nothing but artificial belief systems with no backbone to support them. So, while the big obvious wrongs (taking another's life, stealing figs, etc.) are a given, I just feel that the little wrongs that we've established have no real basis, much like one eating with much gusto and slurping in the process would be considered wrong. Who is really getting hurt?

So, while I am very interested to know what everyone's take on this subject is, I also want to suggest that you give unconditionally. If you are going to give, give it away freely with no attachments. Otherwise, you are just setting yourself up for disappointment.

hmm.. you opened up a can of worm. lol "ethics and fig trading".. we can write a book on it. i would suggest that you know who you are giving the cuttings to. 

When I give a cutting or plant, I agree, I don't expect anything unless it was a trade from the beginning or I wanted the reciever to pay shipping which would again be made known from the beginning.

 Here is the flip side though. When someone freely gives me a cutting or plant(with or without paying shipping) and if down the road something tragic should happen to their mother tree. I would gladly give them cuttings or an extra start to replace theirs. It's the least I can do! Furthermore, if they are looking for cuttings from a variety that I have, I would be happy to get them some cuttings when they are available. The only caveat to this is sometimes certain cuttings aren't availble now and there may already be a waiting list for that variety. Let's be real, plant material from rare varieties is great for aquiring other varieties, so in the first handful of years I'm not going to have alot of extra rare plant material hanging around.

I apologize for not being clearer, but what I was referring to was what the recipient ends up doing with what he receives. If he or she ends up starting a u-pick farm with the cuttings or plants that I gave them and it becomes a source of income for them then I would be completely happy for them. If they end up selling cuttings and plants that originated from whatever I gave them, I would also be happy for them. I sense that some will give but they somehow don't want you to make any money off of it. I don't get it. Maybe, it's because of a less than ideal view or belief regarding money?

If the purpose of giving is so that the recipient receives benefit from it in any way, shape, or form and the giver is, at best, happy for them and, at the least, detached, then some of us have forgotten the true spirit of giving.

I think most forum members feel that if you give someone 4 cuttings of a highly desirable variety, and the recipient keeps two cuttings for propagation and then sells two on ebay, that this is unethical.  I think where there are more differences of opinion is an example where the recipient roots all four cuttings, to end up with four young plants, and then keeps one and sells three on ebay. In the latter example there is a value added on the part of a recipient (i.e. the effort involved in propagation); however, the recipient is not really following the spirit of the person who gave him the plant material for free.  When money is made off of figs things often get complicated.

once they grow the tree and then sell cuttings and air layers, i wouldn't mind it at all. if they make good money off that tree, i would even feel proud. but if someone sells the cuttings as soon as they get them, yeah, i won't like it. but, helping others by freely sharing them as soon as they get the cuttings, i would be very happy with it. 

i mean, it was a gift. play with it for awhile before recycling it. 

@IamKriya, where do you collect this unusual information from? Has something like that happen to you?
When someone gives a cutting (which is a dear thing to do BTW) the giver might assume the receiver is going to do their best to make it grow. Now anything beyond that is out of the giver's powers.
I, for one, wouldn't care what anyone does after receiving my cuttings... but after reading your post , I am assuming there are some who have hard separation time, LOL
One thing I really would hate to see is for someone getting precious cuttings from people who think they did a good dead and turn around and sell them for misly profit.
That would be so wrong! and once the word is out no one would EVER trust them.
What concerns to turning the cuttings into farm trees and making Gazillions... well, isn't it what we all wish for our cuttings? :) Turn a cutting onto an amazing tree and if you start profiting from it then more power to you...who ever you are.
I for one would love to see my trees being part of a beautiful orchard or a farm.

Ok guys, you are going to have to pretend that I am a 5 year old as I am not understanding it completely. 

I have always felt that when I give I give it away completely with no strings attached. If there are going to be strings attached then why bother giving at all? What the recipient does, in whatever time frame, irregardless of whether they put time and effort or none at all shouldn't matter. If they matter, then are those not strings attached, conditions that must be met in order to not offend the giver? 

Not trying to stir up anything here, FYI. I'm just feeling a little passionate about breaking hardened belief systems that are rooted in air. It's peaceful here all the way :-)

I agree 100% with Steve! I don't have restrictions on the things I give but if I shipped cuttings out of the goodness of my heart and saw them a week later on ebay I would be really mad. I would also let everyone know what happened and that person would probably have a hard time getting anymore.

I have had people give me cuttings and ask me to keep them to myself for a year or two. No problem! If you ask for the conditions before giving them it should be okay but if not, you should have no say in what happens. That doesn't mean it's okay for people to take advantage.

Ryan, if giver and receiver understand what is expected of a transaction, there shouldn't be a problem. Whenever I offer a plant or cutting to someone, I make it clear I want nothing in return if that is what I truly want. The receiver should always ask if he/she can pay for postage and handling, or give something in return. If my answer is no, I want nothing, then it should be of no concern to me what he/she does with the plant material.

On the other hand, I am somewhat uncomfortable receiving anything for free and I always insist on trying to pay it back one way or another. That's just me.

What burns my ass (aside from a flame this high :)) is when someone requests a specific plant/cutting and promises to exchange something but then conveniently forgets. Gentle reminders usually provoke a litany of lame excuses.  Fool me once...

This may be an odd way to look at it, for me it's not unethical that they might sell the gift, it's rude....but it is theirs and if I gave it freely then it is their right to do with it as they please. I would probably make a note to not give them any other...

If I gave someone cuttings and they sold them instead of propagating them it would frost me....   If though I give cuttings and they grow and keep one and sell the other plants no problem.  I agree with Frank that people that don't honor trades annoy me.  Delays happen which is fine but if you owe someone it really is up to the one that owes to keep checking back with the owed party to reassure them they have not forgotten and are working on it, is only polite.  

In my opinion, it would be unethical to ask for cuttings for free or for shipping costs with the intent on selling them for a profit.  That is just preying on others' goodwill.  Also it's hard to see how that would be a very profitable business model. 

There are other situations where there's probably a more diverse set of opinions:  For example:

1.  If you negotiate a price (in excess of shipping costs) for cuttings, and then sell them for more on Ebay, I don't have a huge problem with that.  That's just how business works.  If I found out, I would just probably negotiate a higher price the next time.  Or sell them on Ebay myself.  But I've sold cuttings before, and it's a lot of work and hassle, so if someone wants to be in that business, they should be compensated for their effort.
2.  Anyone who has grown figs knows that it's impossible to predict how many of your cuttings will survive.  So if you start 4 cuttings, they all survive, I see no problem with selling the extras.  Or even all 4 of them.  Like another poster said, you are adding value so you should be compensated for your efforts. 
3.  The keeping 2 and selling 2 example is a little tricky.  Did they specifically ask for 4, with the intent of selling 2?  Or did the not even think about the number they would receive, and then when they got the cuttings they figured they had a good shot at getting the tree with 2 cuttings and decided to sell the extra?  If the latter, I wouldn't have a problem with it.  If the former, then that's a little shady.  But if the cuttings are so valuable or rare or sought after that you can make a substantial amount of money by selling 2 on ebay, then why are you giving 4 away to 1 person in the first place?  I wouldn't do so.  That's not generous, that's just silly.  Why not give 2 each to 2 people?  That would be better. 

I think that it is fair that when giving a gift that there are certain unstated expectations of what happens in the immediate future.  For example, if someone gave someone a pet, I would think it reasonable to expect the receiver to take good care of said pet and not abuse or (heaven forbid) eat it.  Certainly a fig cutting is a much different situation, but you do want that cutting to be used for a certain purpose, namely to start a fig tree.

If you want to state specific conditions when giving cuttings, you are free to do so, but it may be hard to enforce or monitor whether said conditions are met on an ongoing basis, and the only recourse you have if conditions are not met is to not give to the same person again.

I do expect that if I give cuttings to someone for free or shipping, and if my tree dies, that if I ask that person, and the cuttings I provided to them resulted in a tree, and said tree can yield a cutting, that they give me cutting for free or shipping costs if I ask nicely, provided it's legal, etc.  Why wouldn't they?  However, if someone is enough of a jerk to refuse such a request, then they've probably got a lot bigger problems than I have, and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. 

There are probably a million ways that someone could burn another just by the mere exchange of cuttings, whether shipping was paid, weather the cuttings were paid for, prior deals, etc, etc.  I'm sure everyone can come up with a scenario.  I had given away cuttings and noticed the same cuttings on someones list to trade.  I feel it's that persons business and that's it.  And I would give away to that person again because the cuttings were given away freely and I have no expectations.

I think the crux of @IamKriya's concern is profiting off a gift from another.  My feeling is that most of us are whacked out of our skulls for doing what we do for the hobby and after you figure in what we pay for everything associated with the hobby, there is no profit; only a little fig money which is dangerous in any of our hands.

I guess it all boils down to the recipients culpable mental state.  If a recipient accepts cuttings or trees with the thought "Oh boy, I can't believe this person is giving this to me.  I can't wait to sell it and make a profit!", it is flat out wrong and that person should be pelted with rotten figs.  If a recipient accepts cuttings or trees with the thought "Oh boy, I can't believe this person is giving this to me.  I can't wait to grow them up and eat some delicious figs.", does just that and then sells the tree, then there is nothing wrong with that.

I am of Italian culture. My father to this day grows over 300 tomato plants and god knows how much of everything else in his garden. My parents live by themselves. There is my sister's family and my family. We take what we can but 95% of it we can't even eat because there is just too much. My father loves to garden on a big scale even at 78 years old. The rest gets given away to anybody and everybody they know and some people they don't.  Sometimes people go over and by the time they leave they have 200$-300$ in vegetables packed away in their cars. I was always brought up that if you can give you give. That's what society is supposed to be about and you give freely without concern as to what the people do with it.

With that said when it comes to something rare. I don't know.... but i wouldn't just give it away to any Tom Dick or Harry. I don't know anybody personally here on this forum but at the very least i would check to see if the person participates here. You can pick out the genuine people quite easily. If it was a plant or tree that is common i wouldn't give a second look to who the person was as long as they had a few posts. If it was a rare plant or a tree i would give it away on the condition that i choose who gets it, Not just the first person to P.M.

Right or wrong that's my opinion.

IMHO,

If you are given cuttings as a gift you should not sell them. If they grow then you should pass on some cuttings to someone else at a later date when the plants are stable and mature. I have had several nice people from the forum give me cuttings and this is what I will do when the plants mature.

If you traded or purchased them with people on the forum you can do what you want but for me I treat them like they are a gift and I will trade or sell cuttings from them later

Ebay is just a store so you can do whatever with the cuttings you get from there.

It seems that our reputation is less about our actual actions but more about how others feel about our actions; and fair or not, others will treat us accordingly to our reputation.

Simple communication before asking for or accepting a gift will tell us what others expect and whether we can honor those expectations.  If we can honor those expectations, great, if not, then we deserve the reputation we get (and the rotten fig pelting from nycfig).

Giving is nice, Exchange is even nicer but if someone hit the forums just to get material for the shipping cost or even for free I consider it a fraud or theft, sorry guys.
If someone conns me to giving cuttings and pretend he's a "nice figgie grower with passion" yet his only intention is to get what he wants at no cost that's STEALING!

There was a category, and may still be, with seeds, cuttings, tubers, etc. when sold through Seedsavers that the recipient had to propagate and offer them in the future, when it was an item that was rare, or seldom seen. That categorization was at the discretion of the seller, and for understandable reasons. I don't know that saw things in the category re-offered by the recipient, but there was no enforcement mechanism.

I do give things away, and donate then under certain circumstances. When I do so it is without strings or requirements. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with "strings" if they are clearly stated and understood. People donate to charities all the time, with the understanding that the money will be used for a particular purpose or project.

There are times when I receive, say cuttings, from someone, for free, and if they are successful, I keep two for the Figs 4 Fun collection, and the rest are usually traded for additional varieties, or sold to pay for the maintenance of the collection. Adding new things is a priority.

i would imagine it would be a common courtesy to not sell a gift... but some culture might be different. if i did that in korea, at least when i was growing up there, either they beat the crap out of me, or people will pity me for being extremely poor. i think it's about the same all over... but kriya's culture might be different.

or, some culture might not define fig cuttings or trees as gifts, in which case, i think i can try to understand.

we are all different. i mean, french consider jerry lewis as a comic genius.

My 2 cents - I give, it is no longer mine, it is yours, you may do whatever you want to do with whatever is yours, including killing it.  I personally would not sell cuttings or trees that were given to me, my wish list is for me to have, not to sell, I want those because I do not have them, If I were to sell them I would not have them, which is exactly where I started.

I do not like the attachment of strings on gifts, you may, I don't care what you do with your stuff, if you want control of your stuff, don't give it away, either way does not matter to me.

Just my 2 cents worth, not looking for a debate, just saying.

My grandmother was never happy unless she had something to give away. By the same token, she came from a culture where it was impolite to show up at someone's door empty-handed. I give knowing I cannot control the outcome, but also pay attention to mongering. I receive knowing that my receipt also creates a debt, if only of gratitude, but often to be just as generous to the next person.

To play devils advocate Ryan, what if it was you who gifted the cuttings? The receiver sells some but they are not the correct variety, it could have been that you had the wrong type, or the seller mixed them up, or the seller purposefully misrepresented them to make a little extra. Now what was a gift has become a liability. The seller will no longer be financially responsible by the time the buyer figures it out so all that is left to lose is credibility. 

Reselling or selling gifted cuttings is bad business. A credible seller grows them out and takes pics as evidence. My 2 cents.

Giving without the expectation of anything frees you to experience and receive the pleasure in giving instead of worrying of being wronged in some way. On the other hand, just clearly state what you expect if you do expect something. That way chances are less you will be disappointed, or just call it an exchange. Try it both ways and see which one works for you.