Wow, lots of great responses... thank you all.  (So far I mean, since it appears that parts of the discussion may continue).

Gina - I was surprised by how much the leaves on your tree look like maple leaves!
 
And Barry, assuming that mine grows enough this year to get some cuttings, I'll do a trade.  (I'm interested to trade to have both of the cultivars, and would happily line up to trade with you... I think we may have another trade or two pending for the dormant season even, would have to go check my "pending trades" list :-)

Herman / Vasilly, thanks for all of the info.

Likewise thank you Rafed.

Shah8, I appreciate the comparison info as well as all the rest.

(And many thanks to all who are helping me sort this out).  Meanwhile to all who commented about EL... yes I agree that EL is a good and reputable place.  I've ordered other things from them in prior years (besides figs), and have found Michael M there to be most helpful.  I too don't believe they'd purposefully send me the wrong fig (rather had just wondered if maybe it was a mistake... but I'm happy to learn that it's sounding like no mistake!).

(And you guys who commented about VdB... I've got one of those already from a very generous "Fig Santa Claus" member here, who prefers to remain anonymous but was wonderfully generous to me!).

OK, from all the responses so far, I've got some confusion too  (it's catchy, Barry!).  But I'll put that in a separate post :-)

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

So here's the bit that still confuses me... it's about how many spellings there are, and how many actual cultivars  (that you knowledgeable folks know of, I mean).  So much rampant confusion about cultivars and spellings (witness Abruzzes which also goes by Kadota and Dotatto according to Condit, versus Abruzzi which is a very different fig).
 
(btw, Jon's page says that Michael McConkey of EL introduced PN, and others say Condit did). 

So after reading what Herman and Rafed and others said above, plus all the info that Jon's "varieties" page says about Petit Negri and Petite Negri (which also includes spellings of P. Negra in its photos, as well as P. Nigra), quoting ideas from Ray Givan and the Alabama CE, I'm confused.

I'll ignore the spelling difference between "petite" and "petit", but we've then still got:
      Petite Negri    (from EL)
      Petite Negra   (sold by Park Seeds, aka Aubique Petite)  
      Petite Negra   (is there another of these?) 
      Petite Nigra
(And though I know about plurals and singulars in various Romance dialects, it seems as though you guys are telling me that at least two of the above are separate.

As for whether any of them match VdB or some kind of Bordeaux, that'd be interesting too.

How many of the spellings above are really the same fig?  Or, in case the spellings are so interchangeably used, I could ask it another way... how many different cultivars of this are there, and what source attributions would sort out the figs that go by P. Negri/Negra/Nigra?

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

Can of worms. I'm thinking the spelling is not real important, but it is possible one source spells it one way and different source another way and those sources may even have different trees. At any rate, it's a deal. I'd be happy to send you scion in the fall Michael, especially since it appears like we have 2 different figs. Same for you Gina, unless of course it is determined that we do have the same tree.

The majority of small Petite Negri I see on this forum, like what nelson or zaitun has posted, have three lobes as with the original post.  Of course, many of the larger tree examples look a heckuva lot like Noire de Caromb.

/me shrugs...whatcha gonna do?

I agree a can of worms about spelling.  But I'm still interested to understand  how many distinct cultivars there are that go by one or another variant of this spelling, and maybe find some way to identify them (even if not by the subtle spelling variations).  For example, source attribution seems a reasonable way to try... 

    Petite Negri - EL   (pictured above when young)
    Petite Negra - Pierre Baud   (pictured above also?)
            (same as Petite Negri - Park Seeds)
            (same as Aubique Petite - Pierre Baud)
    Petite Negra - is there another version of this?  e.g.  http://figs4fun.com/Thumbnail_Petit_Negri.html   (these photos match most closely with the 4 other PN's I've seen in person, btw, including limbs  having the 5-lobed and 1-lobed leaves on the same tree but different limbs being consistent).
    Petite Nigra - is this something different?  Or just another insignificant variant in spelling?   e.g.  http://figs4fun.com/fpix/FP940-12.jpg 

If any of you guys knows how many cultivars being called PN there are... seems at least 2 but maybe more?  

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

Look like VdB leaves to me, but my Petit Negri has the same leaves and is not so Petite, either. Had another PN many years ago that was definitely Petite, but fruit was largely indistinguishable from VdB. Don't know if it was petite as a tree or for cultural reasons, At the time I just looked at it as a tree that didn't want to grow. Fruit was good.

My guess is part of the problem is the name itself - petite meaning small, and negra meaning black. How many different small black figs, perhaps closely related, might there be? This probably has added to the confusion as well.

I hope the one I have, whatever it is, grows well and tastes good.

I have two VdBs from different sources (one purchased with the 'PN'), that look quite different as well.

Maybe we could form a chapter of PNA - Petite Negra Anonymous - and hire a fig therapist. :)

It doeasn't Matter the spelling,There is only one Petite Negri,and that one is the one
in the post #1
It has that three lobes leaf.
Any other Petit negri,negra petite etc,that got deeply lobed five  lobes leaves,those are Petite Aubique,or Aubique petite,and they originates in France from Pierre Baud Nursery.
They were sold by many nurseries as Petite Negra negri By mistake.
It doesn't matter how many other cultivars are sold as Petite Negri,only the pix in post #1 is Petite Negri.

Um, Gina, ... what post are you quoting?  (in your post #35).  It sounds like the same basic point that Herman was making in post #34.  But, where's the quote from?

Herman and Jon, thanks for the info.  I liked your statement, Jon, about "At the time I just looked at it as a tree that didn't want to grow".  Kinda brought a smile... so far mine hasn't grown in a month either (but it's only a month).  My dad's has grown only a few inches in a year.  (But he has the "other" kind of PN that's apparently the fig that Pierre Baud introduced).

And yep Gina, I know it means "small black", but aren't many of these fig cultivar names equally ambiguous?  I just mean there are lots of them that sound like the same thing... you know, what's in a name?  (Tons of them seem to have names that are just descriptions).  Getting to where I'll just shrug too, like shah8.

Thanks again for all the info and discussion.  Herman, have you got any photo that is a good reference pic for Aubique Petite - Pierre Baud ?

Mike  central NY state, zone 5

I think there are no adult petite negri with dominant three-lobe, though.  It's a blend of 1 and 5 lobe tree.  Baud pretty clearly considers Petite Aubique to be the same as Negronne, and in general, PN generally has larger fruit than what Baud would think likely for petite aubique.

I hear you, shah8.  I think it's pretty interesting the way those trees have limbs that are consistent with 1-lobed leaves and also limbs that consistently have 5-lobed leaves, both on the same tree.  Also kinda fun that "petite" must refer to the tree itself, since the fruit is generally large.  (A "small black" that makes large black fruit).  Also kinda fun that some of them seem to grow like weeds (there are three that I know of locally that have grown more than 3 feet on each of their two main limbs this season), and others seem to be dwarf-like trees.  Just lots of variations I guess... begs the question where to draw the line between different cultivars versus variation within a cultivar.  The very-slow-growing versus the fast-growing seems significant enough I guess (though it could be cultural / conditions, so without some careful comparison that's ambiguous... I do suspect there are gene differences that separate those cases though).

Interesting that you say Baud considers Aubique Petite the same as Negronne... Ray Givan seems to think the same (from the quotes attributed to him on Jon's reference pages).

Thanks again.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

My Petite whatever the heck it is, is a large tree, producing small black figs with larger and very long breba. My tree has leaves similar to VDB, but not the same. I'm thinking that Parks, EL and other sources interchange Petite Abiqua, Petite Negra and even VDB either intentionally or unknowingly. Just my thoughts. I will post pics of my leaves in a little while.

Ray Givan makes 2 statements about Petite Negri:
In his  Fig Booklet he states:There are 2 distinct cultivars labeled Petite Negri:
One is Negronne,the other seem to be Black Ischia.
Notice he said,"SEEM TO BE".
Then he states:I am convinced,that the one that reassemble Ischia Black is the Correct Petite Negri.

On Ray Givan Internet site,he changes the statement and writes:
Identical with Negronne. Introduced under trade name of Petite Negri by Mike McConkey of Edible Landscaping. This fig is Negronne: The name Petite Negri was given Ischia Black by a Frenchman in the late 19th century. It was eventually imported into the U.S. and became confused with Negronne in a commercial nursery. (An understandable error since the very young, reddish-brown fruit is easily confused with that of Negronn
e.

My Conclusion:Petite Negri was from beginning a fig that resemble Ischia Black but was it's own kind and not Ischia Black.(Look like pix in #1 post)
Yet it has leaves more like Ischia Black and not like Negronne aka Violette de Bordeau,and  Also not like Aubique Petite.
Pixies of Aubique Petite taken today,Below.

My young Ischia Blacks (photo below) from Jon look more like the photo in post #1 than do the leaves of my 'Petite Negri' from EL.

Well, if they (Aubique Petite) are above average figs, I guess it's OK. Not much I can do anyway. 

I agree the leaves on mine are like the ones in Herman's photos. So what name do I put on my plant?

See last year's discussion ..


http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Petit-Negri-Not-So-Petit-5472207?highlight=negri

So, I guess I have a Petite Aubique rather than a Petit Negri.
Apologies to all those that I gave plants and cuttings labeled as PN. You are the new proud owners of Petite Aubique.

I think we're just bumping up against climate and age determining what the leaf should be.  I do not think there ever was a PN that was actually an Ischia Black or something similar--in fact I would be unsurprised if some PN are flavors of Barnisotte, because there were definitely strains of Barnisotte meant for pots in the English nursery trade, and they tended to go by "petite"-x.  The name Ischia seems to have been given to a number of figs that's supposed to be from that island in the English nursery trade.  We're dealing with English misidentification just as much as we're dealing with US misidentification.  This should be obvious what with all the similar figs with different names and mysterious origins.  I mean, Vista Black Mission?  Where did that come from, originally?  Beers Black?

It's not as if my plants ever looked like Vasilly's plant.  The outer thumbs in five lobed leaves do not strongly recurve, but sticks up, or simply straight out.  Only seven lobed leaves has thumbs like the one in post 42.  Of course, I can't remember my figs ever looking dominant three lobed, but they were sold bigger than the ones in the original pic.  If anything, the lack of shine on the leaves of the teeny plants, unlike Gina's young plants, are a bigger indictment against PN-hood.

Gina:The fig in post 18,has leaves similar to Aubique Petite, Pierre Baud sells,so you can safely label it as  Aubique Petite.
It is not a bad fig,by the contrary it is an excellent fig cultivar.
Gina :Ischia Black  you have  has  leaves similar to Petite Negri,and that is why ,some say it is Ischia Black,but I think Petite Negri is it's own kind.

Thanks Herman. Good to know. I'll relabel my 'PN' to AB. :)

Here are the leaves of my Petite negra. Much to my chagrin, surprise and embarasement, I found 3 lobed leaves on it. Herman what is the verdict? negra or abiqua? 

Michael:There are no many varieties of Pierre Baud tree,there is only ,one but specimen are different because they are infected with more or less damaging Fig mosaic Virus.
The Virus mutates,and some keep the tree small and unproductive more than other.
That is why it looks like there are many different varieties of the same cultivar.
The Aubique Petite I have ,has a mild strain of FMV,that allow tree to grow normal,just like a healthy tree.
I get up to 2 foot of grow in one season,without applying any fertilizer,just leaf mulch,and minerals limestone .
BLB,:Your tree is just like My Aubique Petite,a good grower.