Thanks Herman,

You never cease to dazzle and amaze! Sorry to any out there that I sent either scion or airlayers to, please change the label to Aubique Petite. So now I need to get me a real Petite negra. Michael, sure be happy to trade, but it looks like you've got AP covered.

Barry, I'm happy to stay "on" with our trade.  I didn't make it to that nursery today (work kept me busy 'til after closing).  So I'm not sure if they've still got them.  I'm also not sure if they're the same as your tree either.  But since you still want the kind of PN that I've got anyway, let's keep it "on".  

If I do manage to get one of those trees from the local nursery, I'll post pix.  (Won't be tomorrow... I know my schedule tomorrow won't allow me to get there).

Sure has been fun learning about these varieties.  Thanks Herman and everyone who contributed.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

It's a deal Michael, thanks.

If anyone has any extra cuttings of the real PN, I'd love some too.
I thought I had purchased a real PN, but... sniff ... no.

Gina,

No need for tears. If you have what I have and it looks that way, it is a very good tree, compares well for taste with VDB.

You are right Barry. It's not as if I don't already have a lot of nice fig trees, including my 'new' AP. :)

Don't cry for me Petite Negra
The truth is I never had you
All through my wild days
My fig existence
I kept my promise
Don't keep your distance

Life is too good to mourn too long for the one that got away.

Nice Evita reference. If when I get scion from Michael or anyone else, and am able to get more than one tree out of it, I'll send one to you, promise. 

Thank you. I'm sure it will all work out. :)

Gor my petite negri from el in 2010.

Thanks Nelson.  I see you also have some of the three-lobed leaves.  They all look shiny too though, unlike mine.  Nice pics.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

Hey Michal yes I have lots of 3 lobed leaves even last year I did also I did find a few photos from my PN last year.

Nice pics Nelson, your tree looks great. It also looks different than mine which just shows that Herman was correct about my tree.

Thank You BLB, I did notice last year fruits were very different in shape to my VDB from EL wich made me happy I didnt want to end up with two Identical plants. If its a true Petite Negri or not I have no clue figs are very tasty though and thats what really matters.

Vasile what is your thought on My plant?

Here is the right place to post my photos of Petit Negri (EL) and VDB (EL)    Can't really tell a difference.   I think when the trees get older there my be a very slight difference in size of the plant and fruit, but who knows.

Well, now I wanna see a picture of that so-called real petite negri (EL), if I could get a snap from the future, of course...

Honestly, I think Herman2 is wrong amidst the general confusion of bordeaux variants.  I think people just went to France, picked up some tree roughly approximating some variety and went home.

Only thing I will say about the picture is that the leaves are a smidge too cut for Petite Negri.  A few of my PN's leaves are that cut, but most 5 & 7 lobed leaves are fat, and can look slightly like some of the NdC and Black Beauty leaves, distinguishable by the higher gloss of the PN (and single lobe tendency).  Compare with the PN here:

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Petit-Negri-Not-So-Petit-5472207?highlight=negri

That one has leaves far more like NdC than mine, but mine isn't dissimilar in that it has relatively fat fingers.  The leave you're showing is cut like RdB or Valle Negra.  PN should also fruit before VdB/Negronne, et al.

Mike, it was labeled as Brown Turkey.  Wasn't it?

That's a Valle Negra leaf if I ever saw one. Matches mine to a 'T'!

I Just started it this year so I have no fruits for comparison. It supposedly comes from northern Italy in the Liguria region, not far from France I believe.

Some have compared it to VdB, favorably. There is only 1 or 2 posts on this fig so there is not a lot of info.

It has the thinnest leaves I have seen on any I have grown.

Dominick, that is interesting. Liguria is a long and thin coastal region that goes from Tuscany to France (borders with Monte Carlo / Monaco). The climate, especially in the winter, is a lot milder than the bordering region of Piedmont or nearby Lombardy. It is basically mountains and sea. I wonder where did you get your cuttings from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liguria

Liguria is bordered by France to the west, Piedmont to the north, and Emilia-Romagna and Tuscany to the east. It lies on the Ligurian Sea. The narrow strip of land is bordered by the sea, the Alps and the Apennines mountains. Some mountains rise above 2000 m; the watershed line runs at an average altitude of about 1000 m.

The winding arched extension goes from Ventimiglia to La Spezia and is one of the smallest regions in Italy. Liguria is just 5,422 square kilometres, or 1.18% of all of Italy. Of this, 3524.08 kilometres are mountainous (65% of the total) and 891.95 square kilometres are hills (35% of the total). Liguria's Natural Reserves cover 12% of the entire region, or 60,000 hectares of land. They are made up of one National Reserve, six large parks, two smaller parks and three nature reserves.

The continental shelf is very narrow, and so steep it descends almost immediately to considerable marine depths along its 315-km coastline. Except for the Portovenere and Portofino promontories, it is generally not very jagged, and is often high. At the mouths of the biggest watercourses there are small beaches, but there are no deep bays and natural harbours except for those of Genoa and La Spezia.

The ring of hills lying immediately beyond the coast together with the sea account for a mild climate year-round. Average winter temperatures are 7 to 10 °C (45 to 50 °F) and summer temperatures of 23 to 24 °C (73 to 75 °F), which make for a pleasant stay even in the dead of winter. Rainfall can be abundant at times, as mountains very close to the coast create an orographic effect. Genoa and La Spezia can see up to 2,000 mm (79 in) of rain in a year; other areas instead show the normal Mediterranean rainfall of 500 to 800 mm (20 to 31 in) annually.

Michael, I have to tell you when I seen a picture of your tree I had to order to see for myself. Well they showed up last evening and they look nothing like yours. The one's they sent me look like Aubique Petite. I was a little upset so I called EL up. They tell me they only have one tree and the one I recieved was it. I can tell you they are surely different leaves then what your pics show and would like to see if your tree leaves change when it gets older.


luke

Hello all, I have been reading this thread from the beginning because I had ordered both plants from EL. Attached are pictures of the the leaves of both plants, and they are different. The Petite Negri is only 18 inches tall but it has 3 and 5 lobed leaves. The Violet De Bordeaux (which was tagged Negronne) is 3 feet tall and has mostly 5 lobed leaves, very few 3 lobed. The question still applies.
   .

Thanks for bumping this thread, Pete.  It reminds me that I promised to post pix of the actual figs that I got off of my (Aubique Petite, or Valle Negra / Liguria, or whatever that tree actually is).  I've eaten about 8 or 10  of the figs from that tree... just picked one this morning actually, and I've taken pictures of most of them.  So maybe this evening (or sometime soon) I'll locate where the pix are and post them.  (Unfortunately, though there are 15 or so more figs on the tree, that's probably the last of them that will ripen... the nights have been so cold here, and the leaves have gotten so yellowed and browned, I doubt the figs will ripen).

Meanwhile though, a couple of comments about the original tree that motivated me to start the thread.  My Petit Negri (EL) didn't grow very much at all this year... no new growth and no new leaves, from the time I got it in June through now (last day of September).  It "looked" healthy right through the summer, just didn't grow.  It was treated well and lived in among many other trees that were treated similarly (but the others put on LOTS of new growth).  I'm just hoping it survives the winter.  (And to those folks who wanted cuttings of my Petit Negra (EL), I'm still keeping track of your names and willing to do cuttings, but I'm afraid they'll have to wait until 2013, because this one just didn't grow.  

OK, about the leaves  (and the implicitly related question of ID).  Pete, your leaf pic on the left looks like the 5-lobed version of Petit Negri (EL)... that's gotta be from the same mother tree as mine.  (Did yours grow much this year after you got it from EL?).  And the Negronne leaf (aka VdB) on the left.  I've been convinced from the start that Negronne is a different variety from Petit Negri, and also different from Aubique Petite (in my opinion anyway).  So thank for posting the pictures, Pete!  Luke... you said yours look different... can you post pictures?  

OK, last bit for this post... I promise to dig out the pix I took of my other tree that I posted pics of (the Aubique Petit, or Valle Negra, or Liguria, or whatever that tree actually is).  Those pix are all still on the camera, and for me it takes a little more effort to get them uploaded and resized so that I can post them.  (My pix are huge files... too big to post, so I have to do resizing and all that sort of junk).

Again, thanks for bumping the thread Pete.  And thanks for posting the pics.  I think our Petit Negri (EL) trees are from the same mother tree.  And Negronne is different.  I don't know what Luke got from EL, but await his pictures.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

Mike, You're welcome. I ordered the Petite Negri (EL), May 27,2012 and received it 10 days later. It was a rooted cutting with two leaves 2 inches above the soil line in a 2 inch pot. I up potted in a 1 gallon and then a 3 gallon planter. Today it is approximately 18 inches tall, 2 branches from the soil line, and currently has 10 figs growing. I was planning on growing the plant indoors therefore I have not removed the figs as yet.

After reading all the great info posted on this Forum, I followed their advice. Three things changed from my initial foray (about 1 dozen plants).

1. I bare rooted the fig plants that I received with the water bath method (tub of water and swishing), removing all potting material and de-tangling the roots, but not pruning.

2. Using gritty mix (5-1-1) potting mix, Dolemite Limestone and adding organic fertilizer Espoma Garden-tone (not time release).

3. Installing a homemade "Smart Pot Pot liner" made from Spun landscape weed fabric (containers larger than 2 gallon). The smart pot is a trademarked fabric pot liner commercially available.

My biggest problem has been the fig Rust that came with these plants. The lower (older leaver) are covered, giving the appearance of severe FMV discolored leaves. I have used Copper and Sulfur sprays but am barely keeping ahead of the rust in the last month. Hopefully winter will destroy any That I miss (all fallen fig leaves will be burned or discarded in the garbage). My night time temperatures are already dipping into the 40's

If you look closely at the leaf pictures that I posted you may notice the Rust. The Negronne leaf has some FMV discoloration but most is rust.

The Negronne came as a multi-branched tree in a 3 quart container. It has grown about 12 inches on each of 7 branches, and is 3 1/2 feet tall. I have eaten 2 figs from this plant and have just pinched 3 dozen figs. I am planning on letting this plant go dormant because I want to destroy the leaves (Rust).