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timclymer

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Been busy the past few weeks working on a rooting setup that will support a larger number of figs. We went from around 150 last year to almost 450 this year, so some changes were definitely needed. Each set of tables holds 150 figs, and I have 3 sets of tables. I root everything in my basement currently but will hopefully root in a greenhouse eventually. The basement is kinda nice though because the temperatures don't swing greatly and it's relatively cool (around 66-68) so the rooting process is somewhat slow and steady. My method of rooting is pretty much the same as last year's with a few differences:

- Using the same 4x4x9" Stuewe pots but made my own frames (see pic) after finding that their carriers didn't really hold up. The new ones should work for years and carry more pots (25 vs 12), but boy they're pretty heavy!
- Switched to ProMix HP from BX after finding that the BX seemed to retain too much water after initially wetting the medium. A bale fills approximately 120 pots.
- Began wrapping all cuttings to approx. 1" below the soil medium to help further prevent cuttings from drying out
- Began double-sticking some cuttings to help ensure very close to 100% success (two cuttings per pot). Hoping this will also help with even more first year growth to help get the plants established and producing early.
- Went from a setup that was 6 figs wide to 5 figs to allow for easier watering, seems to be working better
 
Some of my pain points with the setup so far:
- Raising and lowering lights to water (not sure how to get around this)
- Filling 450 pots by hand is, well, quite a few pots (again, not sure how to get around this other than a commercial machine)
- Since humidity is so low (below 40%, see pic below), the top layer of medium gets dry quickly, I've been misting/spraying the soil with a bottle every other day to help. Not sure if I could do anything to avoid this or if this is fully necessary. Anyone else do this?
 
Is anyone else using this system (or something similar) and found any tips/tricks that are helpful to them and save time?
 
Enjoy some of the pics below!

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Looking good my friend. Best of luck with your rooting and new farm.
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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Hey

Looks like a nice carrier-holder.  Most likely too heavy for me these days but smaller...
Hope everything roots well.
I mixed small pine bark nuggets with my Promix.
Not sure which I was using since I have switched since moving down here
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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Looks like you should have a lot of trees to sell or plant.  Best of luck with them.
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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Looks great! Keep up the fantastic work.
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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Do you need to move the lights to water?  Is it possible to make the tables mobile (via something like casters)?  Or maybe something like rope ratchets would make adjusting the lights less arduous.  Just throwing ideas out there.  Not sure if they're practical in your setup.
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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
This was my set up last year and will be my setup again this year.

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/acclimating-new-figs-to-the-cold-6280934?pid=1277492575#post1277492575

I did not find that soil temp was a big factor. It may have taken a little longer for my figs to grow out but they were all pre rooted inside before going into the hoop house. As far as watering goes. I use a rainmaker wand. That may not be practical in your basement. I use the Steuwe trays. They work fine for me. I fill them 12 at a time. I put all 12 with tray into a large Rubbermaid container and fill all 12 at once letting the mix just spill all over. Once all 12 are full just pull out the tray and dump out the leftover soil as necessary. I will be potting about 300 this spring so we'll see how it goes. I do 50% pine bark fines and 50% Pro Mix HP.
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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Tim, I also have fluorescents hanging from chain.
I clamped an extra link on each side of the hanging chain, a couple of feet above the fixture, leaving one end open to use as a hook.
When I have to tend to the plants, I lift up the fixture and hook it higher up, to get better access to the plants.
Easy to move up and down with the plants' growth, too.
Nice setup you have.
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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
I'm a couple months into rooting now, following a similar system(less plants though!).   Thanks again for posting this tech on your blog, Tim, it got me going.  My containers are plastic sleeves that have similar dimensions to the treepots, but are clear so I can monitor root development, and these are packed 24 to a bin.  The bins I use are folding/collapsible plastic produce bins with open slats.  To water, I initially was carefully watering from above with a baster, then seeing that the medium toward the bottom of the pots was drying out, I've switched to giving each bin a few seconds' dunk into a water-filled tray.  After, I put the bin into a dry tray to drain.  Doesn't take long to water 4 bins, and the water gets to the root zone without having to wet down the surface.   I need to do this every 3-4 days with the most advanced cuttings:


bin.jpg 

bag.jpg 

I've got them under t12 shoplights currently, I bet they will really start shooting up once they meet the 600W HPS.

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Looks great Tim, thanks for sharing! I'm using this method, good results so far. I added a layer of limestone screens on my pots to slow moisture loss and control gnats. Adds a lot of weight though. 10414387_10107878566326814_2695854534308427551_n.jpg 
timclymer

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Thanks for all of the comments. About 150-200 of these plants will become producing plants in our orchard, and the remaining ones I hope to sell.

Thanks as well for some of the ideas for making watering easier: tables on casters, a more flexible rigging system with some extra hooks perhaps

Sounds like others are using ProMix HP with some success but have similar issues with keeping the medium moist on top. In a greenhouse I don't think this would be as much of an issue. Hopefully within a month or so the cuttings will be really going and I won't have to "baby" them this way. Once they're really going it seems really hard to overwater them.

For those using pine bark fines mixed with the ProMix, what was your reasoning behind it? Better aeration?

Kelby, I used to have issues with fungus gnats but haven't had any since switching to promix bales. I used to use miracle grow and some other stuff and was always fighting them. I don't know if their QC is better or the packaging of the stuff limits the gnats from laying eggs in the medium.That's just my 0.02. When I did have issues with fungus gnats I would stick one of those mosquito dunks (you can find at walmart) in my watering can. It contains Bt and seemed to take care of them.

One important thing I did change this year: I hardly ever root tip cuttings, and if I do, I'll remove the terminal bud. With wrapping with parafilm I think it's difficult for the topmost bud to break when it's wrapped like that. Most of the lateral buds seem to push through the parafilm just fine.
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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by timclymer
Kelby, I used to have issues with fungus gnats but haven't had any since switching to promix bales. I used to use miracle grow and some other stuff and was always fighting them. I don't know if their QC is better or the packaging of the stuff limits the gnats from laying eggs in the medium.That's just my 0.02. When I did have issues with fungus gnats I would stick one of those mosquito dunks (you can find at walmart) in my watering can. It contains Bt and seemed to take care of them. One important thing I did change this year: I hardly ever root tip cuttings, and if I do, I'll remove the terminal bud. With wrapping with parafilm I think it's difficult for the topmost bud to break when it's wrapped like that. Most of the lateral buds seem to push through the parafilm just fine.


I think the gnats came in my lemon tree or some of the fall cuttings that were outside, not from the potting soil I'm using. I used Mosquito Bits, but liked the idea of the screenings to help as a mulch because figs love lime, as they say.

That's a good idea on the terminal buds, I've had a couple with issues from that, thanks!
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Posted Reply with quote  #13 

For watering, you could always rig a flood and drain table/basin to the bottom of your existing pot holding table. It wouldn't be too difficult to make the addition and you can have a reservoir and pump under each table.
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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Nice set-up.  I have also rooted cuttings directly in HP Promix with decent results.  The only difference is that I placed mine in humidity bins so my issue was the potting mix staying to wet as opposed to drying out.

Wrapping each cutting in parafilm could be pretty labor intensive.  Do you think dipping the cutting in Gulf wax would serve the same purpose?
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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Tim, it looks great but what do you use to deal with gnats?
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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
I use pine bark fines to help with aeration and to reduce overall cost. The PBF are 1/3 or less the price of Pro Mix HP. Works great.
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timclymer

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Bill, I'm not familiar with gulf wax but anything that's breathable but prevents desiccation should work. Parafilm is a wax-like product. It does take a bit of time to wrap the ends of each one. Anyone on the forum experiement with it that you know?

Steve, I have no fungus gnats. Since using ProMix HP or BX in the larger bales I haven't seen any. I do not overwinter any other plants next to the figs which can be sources of bugs (last year spider mites were really bad due to a houseplant under the lights alongside the figs until I was able to get the plants outdoors).

In past years when I did have fungus gnats I used a pond mosquito control product that contained a bacterium to take care of them. Seemed to work pretty well.

Interesting note about the PBF. My only concern with them (maybe unfounded) would be bring in overwintering insects. I use it in my potting mixes and it is a nice and inexpensive product.

Calvin, interesting idea on bottom watering. My only concern (again, maybe unfounded) would be that it'd draw up too much moisture and lead to rot. Once the plants are rooted it would be a great quick option for watering.

Thanks for some great ideas, all. I can always stand to improve and cut down on time.
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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Tim I am new to rooting figs and so far seem to have no success. I am learning and going to try your method with some new cuttings. Can you clarify your success rate? Since you put two cuttings in each pot is your 93 percent success rate per pot or cutting? I think I may live near your farm and depending on my luck with cuttings I may be interested in buying some plants from you this spring.
timclymer

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Dmiller, my success rate last year was with primarily single-stuck plants (there were a few where I had extras and put in two per pot, but not a large percentage), so it's per cutting. I've experimented with a few methods and this has given me the best success rate by far. Good luck with your own rooting!

Would be happy to have you stop by the farm this spring. We'll have plants available around mid-May timeframe (though I certainly wish you luck with your own cuttings!).
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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Tim, I ordered the Parafilm online.  I could not find Pro Mix BX locally, where do you purchase it?  I did see PRO Mix HP at Lowes and Home Depot.  Is that okay?  Where do you suggest I get BX in Harrisburg area?  thank you
timclymer

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
ProMix HP is what I use now, so it would be a good choice. ProMix BX is what I've used in the past and it's worked well too. I've found it at local Agways.
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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
I wonder how much draping some clear plastic sheeting over the pots (maybe with some supports attached to the frames) would help out with the drying out.  It should help to keep the humidity up and limit the evaporation.  It wouldn't make it any easier to water, though.  Those frames look pretty nice, too. 
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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Tim, how do you handle cuttings that send out shoots before roots?

I've lost several to this since the shoots dry out and cutting dies.

I have some doing it currently that I've covered with large clear plastic bags, but I have no idea if it will keep the shoots alive until roots develop.
timclymer

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Kelby,

I'm unable to see which of mine do this (due to black pots), but I imagine some of those that die are doing this. There's really no way of controlling which comes first (roots vs shoots) that I know of (maybe rooting hormone? I don't use it), so you're probably best off handling it the way you are.

I've had several cuttings put off an initial leaf only to have it fall off. Some of the cuttings will recover by presumably photosynthesizing enough with the green tip or stem to put out roots and eventually push out new leaves. I've seen some where the initial bud will die but one below it (even below the potting mix surface) will push out. So, don't give up too early!

That said, I imagine this shouldn't happen to a large percentage of your cuttings. Even with this happening I still had a very high success rate (90+%) and I did nothing to temporarily increase humidity. And that's with an ambient humidity in the 30-40% range.

I'd love to do some good stats on this method to determine best chances for success but there are just too many variables in my mind: diameter of cutting, health of parent plant, differences between cultivars, age of parent plant, chilling hours elapsed, potential tissue damage due to cold, viability of dormant buds, pot type, buried depth, watering technique, etc etc. The best we can do is to offer anecdotal evidence as to what works best and experiment from there.
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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Thanks Tim! I only know they didn't root by gently moving them in the pot after the leaves shriveled off.

I haven't done many cuttings this way yet, but certain varieties seem more prone to doing it (likely other factors at play like you listed). From the first small batch most have rooted beautifully without a problem, some even sprouted below the soil line and above. They just sit in my living room window, no heating mats or anything special. I've found heating mats seem to accelerate root rot in some cuttings, so I unplugged it.

I did just try a handful using the wounding and rooting hormone method recently posted by penandpike, hopefully that will help for tough to root varieties.
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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Hi ampersand,
Try rooting in total darkness in an humid environment like a sealed dark bucket. That should slow leafing out . Let them in total darkness for 6 to 8 weeks and then
bring them to light. If some try to leaf out in darkness, then take them asap to a source of light.
IMO, if you get too many bud breaks, it is because of the ambient light encouraging the leaves to show up .
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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Hi Tim, that is an amazing setup! I'm new so I hope you don't mind my asking but how does putting 2 cuttings in one pot help with the rooting and growing process?

- Fiona
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timclymer

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Fiona, thank you for the kind words. As for the two cuttings, it doesn't do anything magical other than increase the odds of at least one being successful (which is all I need). Think of it like flipping a coin for heads. The more times you flip, the more likely you are to get heads at least once (unless it's rigged!). If more than one "take" then I'll simply have several branches starting at or near ground level, which is how i grow my trees anyways (bush vs tree form). I try to orient the buds when sticking the cuttings so that if more than one does take, the branches won't head in the same direction. Hope that makes sense!
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timclymer

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Thought I'd update with a few pics. The oldest cuttings are coming along nicely. It's hard to believe, but we're only about a month to a month and a half from taking these outside.

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Nicely done. How did you figure out your watering issue? I've got about 230 pots going now and I have been mostly watering with a pump sprayer. They are too young for the rain wand.
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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
I've been using a small watering can that just has a spout instead of the "rain" pattern of most. It serves me pretty well, isn't too heavy, and maybe takes an hour to water them all. On the established cuttings I water all I want. I'm much more cautious with the ones just starting out and let them dry out a little more. I don't weigh them individually but I do lift them to see if they feel light.

One thing I've noticed is that many of them will lose a leaf or two when they just start out but seem to stop by about the third leaf. I expect this is due either to overwatering or lack of roots to support the top growth. This may be less of a factor with a more humid environment (my basement is still around 35% humidity). Loss percentage has been pretty good but I won't do any final calculations until they're transitioned out into the sun. Some won't lose any leaves at all and take right off. These seem to have the most robust growth and largest leaves.

One other tricky thing is balancing those plants that really take off with those that aren't as quick. If I see plants shading others out, I'll move and make room for the small one elsewhere so it can get its share of the lights. This could be avoided if I didn't fill up my frames completely but I'm trying to get as many plants going as I can this spring.

One other thing, don't give up on plants that either just sit there or where the top seems to shrivel up a bit. I've had several plants push out buds from below the soil surface after the top was seemingly dead. If I see a plant that looks dead or there are no signs of life, I'll set it off to the side of the frames and still water it occasionally in case it's in the process of pushing growth from a lower bud. Maybe 10-25% of "failures" recover this way.
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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
They're just about ready for sale and potting up! This was a good year with an overall take rate of 89%. I had some varieties root at 100% but others were complete failures. Varieties that rooted poorly last year did fine this year (Florea being one). I'm thinking the difference was in the quality of the cuttings. ProMix BX versus HP seemed to make no difference, so I'm going to stick with BX most likely as it's cheaper for me.

PS - Sorry for the sideways photo. On another note, the figs seemed to sunburn less this year when transitioning them out. Not sure why.

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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Strong work!
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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
If you are interested in soilless culture planting, please contact SINOBALER at http://www.sinobaler.com/bagging-machine-applied-soilless-culture/
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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
Hello Tim,
    Since promix BX or promix HP don't have any fertilizer, when do you start feeding the plants as they root? Any specific method? Do you top dress with fertilizer or fertigate? Any information will be very helpful.
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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
I haven't seen anyone using rockwool, I always liked using it in trays. Misting systems can be as elaborate and expensive as your wallet can bear. Wetting the mix is easy in a wagon with a shovel and garden hose. I have found the cheaper the mix the more sticks it had which isn't a big deal in pots. One year the premo mix brand used iron to control problems and got into trouble with growers. If you are wondering I helped dad with his greenhouses when I was a pup.

You may consider watering from the bottom and then draining the tray once wet, this keeps the foliage dry and helps with disease control you just need trays with no holes.
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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
Tim: what size bags are those in your photo and where do you get them? Also, what do you use to punch holes? I am really liking the bag method for rooting. It's easy to do in smalk space and it sure does help monitor because u see the roots.
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timclymer

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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
Sorry, for some reason I'm just now seeing replies to this.

@sbmohan, as I understand it, ProMix BX and HP both have a little fertilizer charge, just enough to get things going. There aren't any hard and fast rules I follow for fertilizing and I've changed up the way I do things from year to year. If I had to give a rule, I'd say I start fertilizing once the plant has at least three healthy leaves and is holding them. I've often done a water soluble fertilizer but also like the time-release top dress fertilizer. Both seem to work well.

Rather than do it at each watering, I'll typically wait until the leaves aren't looking quite as green as I think they should (I know that's vague and subjective). That's probably not ideal though. So I'd value input from others here. A weak feeding at each watering might be best.

@Smyfigs: Those bags aren't my photos. I do not use bags, but rather direct-pot them into 4x4x9 treepots. Bags just add an extra step (and extra material) that I'm not interested in doing. However, if it works well for you, more power to you :-)
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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
You guys are great!  I love seeing the pics and reading all of your great ideas.  I am rooting a few right now using the bag method shown above.  Although I don't use those incredible "fish bags."  I think I may have to find some as it seems they are VERY spacious.  Congrats on the soon to be fruits of all your labors guys!
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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
Thanks Tim for your feed back. Appreciate it!!!
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Mohan B
Harrisburg, NC - Zone 7a
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