But if you use the GA3 on one fig variant,the offspring will be the same as parent?

So the theory is that injecting GA3 into proto breba will cause those fruits to produce pollen which can then be used on the main crop of another common fig cultivar and the seeds from those fertilized figs would effectively be a cross of the two without caprification, wasps, etc?

got it ,will give it a try,just ordered GA3 ............thanks

The Holy Grail of Fig Alchemy?

So I understand all the fig seedings will be female,but will the offsprings be all the same or different ?

Yeah, great question. Do the S1 hybrids remain stable into the next generation or do they throw seeds or sports that revert?

Experiment time. This Spring should be interesting, this hormone is affordable and accessible. How many Fig scientists are going to try their luck at forging the next boutique fig in their garage?

Usually you have to inbreed a couple of times to stabilize the variety. All plants are a little different though.

OK,what two varieties would you use to make the very best cross and produces it best offsprings,any good ideas????????

The offspring will be slightly different, but not much. The differences that show up in Cannabis when feminized seed are produced are usually quantitative traits like yield. The flavor and bud structure appear the same. So, looking at fig, using XX feminized pollen in a cross will give you some variety due to what biologists call soma clonal variation, as 'soma' refers to gametes/sex cells....But again, this soma clonal variation is minor (at least in Cannabis) and I expect the same to be true for fig! Good posting on the crossing of two S1's as S1 is an F1 and when two S1's or F1's are crossed you get huge genetic recombination in the F2 and lots of variation! Still all female, but traits need to be fixed at this point and inbreds are best for making S1 hybrids like what is done in Cannabis and Maize!

If fig is in reality all hermaphrodite, then the BIGGEST BANG FOR THE THE BREEDING BUCK is in synthetic S1 hybrid production. You can stabilize traits from there and create new inbred lines and that is important, but the first thing you need to start looking into is the S1 production. What's going on in Japan, what are they doing? Get a hold of that paper...Read the Cannabis and GA3 paper that I posted a link to....Go to your library, University libraries are the best and get the Cannabis paper on producing male flowers in Cannabis with GA3 and go from there. When you have a good handle on what is going on with S1 hybrid production move on to fixing traits and creating new inbred pistillate hermaphrodite/all female lines for use in new S1 hybrids down the road....It sure looks like they are attempting this in Japan and FOR GOOD REASON!!! Fig breeders need about 15 years to catch up to the stoner Cannabis breeders using this technique...:) But, then again, I think stoners, at least some of them are pretty darn smart...:) But you fig breeders are smart too! You can do what the Cannabis breeders and Japanese fig breeders are doing and it is not that difficult. When you make your cross, seal the fig with tape/rubber bands and that Japanese cut paste and just use common sense and you will be pleasantly surprised....watch!

I'm pretty good at digging around finding papers and I will look for that Japanese paper on fig and GA3 and try to get a hold of it. But my guess is that Cannabis paper is all you will need. Now that paper was 1972 and the concentration of GA3 may be in ppm but it might be in w/vol...If you get stuck in how much GA3 to weigh out dissolved in a a little ethanol....go online and look up ppm or w/vol and they have tables. You can also go to the Chemistry CRC manual in any library and READ UP if you get stuck! They CRC manual has pmm and w/vol conversion tables! You need to get that GA3 concentration exactly as listed in the Cannabis paper w/vol and better get that Japanese paper on fig and get it translated and see what w/vol concentration they are injecting into fig Breba. My starting point and likely guess is that the concentration of GA3 is the same as that used in Cannabis for male flower induction.

I 've been reading about GA3 and its promotes great plant growth,I was wondering if it could be used as a rooting compound also?

If this has been done in Japan, do those hybrids have any names? Are they for sale and how much more superior they are compared to known varieties that are caprified?

It is not saying they will be superior just you can breed Let's say two cold hardy Varieties together and know they should have cold hardy traights. More of your off spring should be common figs so the next process would to grow seeds from them then select ones that fruit early on then breed them together.so on and so on till you get the traits you want. It just gives you all females or hermaphrodites At the hydro store around here they sell a spray that mj growers spray on the bottom buds to get feminized seeds. Don't know if the spray is this ga3. I was planning on using this year for figs to see what would happpen

This is what I was referring to, originally posted here

But can you answer this question,why does one fig have to be a breba fig,why cant it be just on the main crop since you are using two female trees?

I buy Hybiscus from Hidden Valley and they have a product they sell that has gibberellic acid in it.  They tout it to wake up dormant hybiscus but don't recommend putting it on the roots.  Its funny that this post turned up because I was getting ready to order from them.    Joyce

Even in caprifigs the only crop that produces male flowers and pollen is the breba (profichi).

The use of bio active molecules for inducing apomixis has been studied. We discussed one of the papers here. I think this is an area that forum members should explore. I have some GA3, and will likely give that and a couple others mentioned in the paper a try. However... Creating a homozygous common fig strain is unlikely at best, receiving the gene for presistance from the mother is lethal.

Interesting take that it is a result of figs being pistillate hermaphrodite, and not apomixis. That might explain the claims of spontaneous chromosome doubling in the paper discussed in the link above.

congatom if you find the japanese paper, please post it.

Andy, I haven't went through every post in this thread but can you or someone else tell me whether the S1 hybrid that you end up with from this process is diploid?  Tetraploid?  Something in between?  I guess the root of my question is how the pollen arises from the breba treated with GA3.  Is it by standard meiosis (and thus has a 1N chromosome number) or some other artificial process (in which case perhaps it is 2N)?  Thanks!

"In April, blush or spray gibberellin of 10ppm on breba of common fig. 
In July, about 3 stamen per fruit are usually produced in the breba.
Cut stamen out of the fruit, and pollinate it with pistil of main crop of common fig."

This tells me that fig are Hermaphrodite and the resulting seeds from this cross will be 100% female and EDIBLE COMMON FIG!!! When you say: "They should all be female, half Common or San Pedro and half Smyrna."....This is NOT CORRECT! When using feminized pollen of an edible fig and cross onto another edible fig female, you get all edible fig females....How would you get San Pedro and Smyrna when they are not being used in the SI cross? You get ALL EDIBLE FIG AND 100% FEMALE, THIS IS WHY THE JAPANESE ARE DOING THIS!!!!

Steve, frankly I have no idea. I would assume diploid based on the description of the mechanism. S1 seems to be a term used in pot breeding for first generation self pollinated hybrid, not much literature about ploidy levels. Using a bioactive agent can induce higher ploidy, so it is unclear. In the apomixis paper the seedlings were diploid.

The Japanese discovered GA3 way back and called it 'Foolish Rice Disease". The rice seedlings when treated with GA3 would bolt and not be able to support their weight and fall over....foolish rice.....So it is no surprise that their breeders realize that fig are ALL HERMAPHRODITE and can take advantage of the Hermie bell curve and produce feminized pollen in Breba for production of feminized pollen for feminized seed like in Cannabis....In doing so, they save time, money and get 100% edible female fig! There is NO WASTED SPACE OR TIME! This other post even must have the paper as he has the concentration of GA3. You fig breeders HAVE ALL THE INFO, YOU JUST FAILED TO CONNECT THE DOTS CORRECTLY BECAUSE YOU REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND FIG BREEDING! YOU REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND IF YOU DID NOT PICK UP ON THE FACT AS TO WHY THE JAPANESE ARE USING GA3 ON THEIR FIGS!!! THEY ARE DOING IT BECAUSE THEIR BREEDERS ARE SMART ENOUGH TO REALIZE THAT ALL FIG ARE HERMIES AND THE 'SO CALLED' FEMALE DIOECIOUS FIG IS ACTUALLY PISTILLATE HERMAPHRODITE WHICH ALLOWS FOR GA3 TO BE USED TO GET VIABLE FEMINIZED SEED IN GREAT QUANTITY FOR SYNTHETIC HYBRID PRODUCTION!!! THEY ARE DOING THIS FOR A REASON....IT WORKS AND THAT MEANS ALL FIG ARE HERMAPHRODITES ON THAT BELL CURVE!

I just happened to stumble on this because I have some figs and read that they are 'Gynodioecious' and again, that got me curious as a good plant breeder with an interest in how Quantitative Genetics relates to complex breeding systems in hermaphrodite crops like Cannabis and hop....I just happened to realize that it looks like fig is a hermaphrodite genera that fall into that hermie bell curve as hermie is quantitative genetic in origin! It sparked my interest and after reading about what Japan is doing with GA3 and what they are doing with Cannabis and feminized seed, I HAVE SPEAK UP AS YOU FIG BREEDERS HAVE ALL THE INFO BUT NOT CONNECTING THE DOTS CORRECTLY!!! THAT'S OK I AM REALLY GOOD AT 'CONNECTING THE DOTS' FOR PEOPLE, EVEN PLANT BREEDERS THAT HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IS GOING ON! GIVEN THE STATE OF FIG BREEDING IN THE USA, THIS IS NO SURPRISE!!!!

But in 5 to 10 years, THIS CAN ALL CHANGE USING THIS S1 hybrid breeding as edible fig with Breba are pistillate hermaphrodite and GA3 is a tool you can use to get a good breeding program going and very cost effective!