I say we all order supplies and make this a open group project. Because i am confused on how to do it. I have large fig tree to do it with. Just would like help.

I just found this info on fig genetics and VERY INTERESTING!!! http://waynesword.palomar.edu/pljun99b.htm

Apparently, female fig is homozygous ga/ga recessive only! So when you make a synthetic cross using feminized pollen from a donor select cultivar, you get ga/ga pollen...ALL FEMALE! Use this pollen and cross onto another female ga/ga pistil and you get a new synthetic edible fig S1 hybrid that is female ga/ga....The fact you have this MULTI GENE sex system suggests fig sex expression is QUANTITATIVE BY NATURE or that the PHENOTYPIC EXPRESSION OF THE HERMIE CONDITION IN FIG IN 'REGULATED OR MODIFIED' BY SUITES OF GENES RESULTING IN DIFFERENT PHENOTYPIC SEX EXPRESSIONS IN FIG WITH THE GA/ga genetic system.

So when you cross a ga/ga feminized pollen with a ga/ga female select fig cultivar, I expect to get 100% ga/ga synthetic hybrid and 100% of the progeny will be common edible fig! I cannot see how you would get San Pedro and the other type of fig when you are making a synthetic hybrid using ga/ga pollen?

I would have to read the paper from Japan, but my guess is that when they make a S1 cross using ga/ga feminized pollen, they get 100% edible common fig and a blending of the two female select cultivars used in the synthetic cross!

When those pistillate hermaphrodite fig that produce the occasional viable seed self, you get a genetic copy of ga/ga female as the plant selfed itself. You are not going to get any males, no San Pedro and no Smyrna fig! You get all genetic copies of the mother! So why when you take ga/ga 'feminized' pollen and use it in a cross on a different ga/ga edible fig (not Desert King) and get 1/3, 1/3, 1/3??? It does not make sense!

When making a synthetic S1 cross using 'feminized' ga/ga pollen, I EXPECT 100% female common edible fig all of pretty good quality, just a blending of the two superior female phenos ga/ga.....The only minor differences should be the minor amount of soma clonal variation that takes place during genetic recombination during meiosis. However there is very little crossing over during meiosis in plants and it usually just results in differences in yield. But his being said, the Japanese are using this simple technique for a reason...IT WORKS!!! If it works....ALL FIG ARE HERMAPHRODITE! Go back to this:

Staminate male(GA/ga..GA/GA??)-----> Staminate hermie(GA/ga...GA/GA??)------>Hermie(GA/ga)<-----Pistillate hermie(ga/ga)<-------Pistillate(ga/ga)

If you can ignore 3 out of the 5 and use pistillate hermie ga/ga and pistillate ga/ga in synthetic crosses using feminized ga/ga pollen....why do anything else? Unless were do not have enough landrace fig to work with and that appears not to be the case!

So again, although fig has what looks to be a two gene system for sex determination GA/ga system...Looking at the fig phenotypes and what we see, suggests there is some quantitative genetic 'REGULATION' of this two gene system....

Again, because we see huge phenotypic differences across fig in terms of flower production and now showing that GA3 can be used to induce male flowers.....This suggests that yeah there are two genes, but their phenotypic 'EXPRESSION' appears to be modified by quantitative genetic mechanisms! Hermaphrodite condition most-likely has some form of quantitative genetic regulation of phenotype expression due to the 'regulation of expression' of those two genes!

That is why we are seeing so much variation in sex expression in fig and GA3 works making feminized pollen....FIGS ARE ALL HERMIE WITH A GA/ga two gene sex expression that is 'modified' through quantitative genetic regulator genes....There are most-likely 'suites of genes' that regulate the expression of the GA/ga genes resulting in varied phenos.....And this is what we are seeing in fig!

Those landrace pistillate hermaphrodite (ga/ga) fig are VALUABLE BREEDING TOOLS! Especially now that it looks like GA3 can be used on the breba to get feminized (ga/ga) pollen and make synthetic S1 hybrids of superior female cultivars....Man, you fig breeders have about 15 years of catching to do to catch up to the 'stoner' Cannabis breeders and this 'feminized seed' thing!...:)

Hey, but figs are legal in all 50 states, so even if it takes 5 years to see the results, THERE SHOULD BE A LOT OF YOU DOING THIS EASY GA3 manipulation and in 5 to 10 years, decentralized fig breeding can be 'SHOWCASE BREEDING PROGRAM' just like feminized Cannabis seed breeding is right now! Giddy up! I want in-expensive S1 hybrid fig seeds please!...:)

After reading the genetics of fig in that link....it's QUANTITATIVE in nature! QUANTITATIVE GENETICISTS DON'T WORK ON SINGLE GENE TRAITS. IF IT IS 'SINGLE GENE', IT'S NOT QUANTITATIVE! Hey, FIG IS TWO GENE GA/ga, in which the 'phenotypic expression' of the GA/ga sexual phenotype regulated by other unknown genes that modify the GA/ga expression resulting in a wide range of GA/GA, GA/ga and ga/ga phenotypes we see.

Two gene is QUANTITATIVE THERE FIG BREEDERS! This makes fig a 'COMPLEX BREEDING SYSTEM' and ALL ARE HERMIE, no matter what you have been told prior! All female and all male plants are HERMIES!!! Go get some GA3 and I WILL SHOW YOU!!! Whether they produce male flowers or not or whether some stress like drought, light or GA3 chemical...SO? THEY ARE ALL HERMIES ON THAT BELL CURVE!!! THAT MEANS WITH COMPLEX BREEDING SYSTEM AND THE FACT THERE ARE FIG PISTILLATE HERMAPHRODITES OPENS UP HUGE, NEW BREEDING PROJECTS THAT COULD NEVER BE DONE IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE FACT THAT ALL FIG ARE HERMIES ON THAT HERMIE BELL CURVE!!! I GIVE YOU FIG BREEDERS 10 YEARS TO CATCH UP TO THE 'STONER' CANNABIS BREEDERS....MAN, THEY ARE SHOWING YOU PEOPLE UP! Just friendly 'ribbing' there fig breeders....You can catch up to the stoner Cannabis breeders and do some good stuff using GA3 and get some good results.

congatom, you are still missing one (at least) piece of the puzzle. In order to produce fruit without the fig wasp, the "female" tree also needs the gene for presistance.

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/arbimg10.htm#persistent

However, "P is "Egg Lethal" & Cannot Be in Egg Heterozygous P+ Progeny Not Possible". So you can produce all female trees, but they will only fruit where the wasp lives (only parts of CA in USA as far as I know).

You not getting the genetics of this persistance. Persistance is sex linked and when you use a male/female system of breeding, the male 'CONFERS' that DNA TO THE PROGENY! IT 'CONFERS' IT TO THE FEMALE PROGENY SO 'P' IS IN THERE!!! IT WILL PASS IN A gaP/gaP feminized pollen onto a gaP/gaP female select cultivar fig. Look at what I am saying and look at the genetics I gave you...Persistance WILL PASS in a gaP/gaP x gaP/gaP synthetic hybrid cross....NEXT!

Come on KEEP THEM COMING THERE FIG BREEDERS...I GOT YA!!! Just ribbing...:)

Andy I thought it would work like this.

P+ (pollen) x P+ (egg) = PP (dies) P+, +P (dies), ++

When I look at this: Put in the feminized pollen P+....They leave it out in a NORMAL cross and that is fine....THIS IS NOT A NORMAL CROSS....THE POLLEN IS gaP/gaP. There is no gaP/gaP pollen in a pistillate hermie or pure pistillate hermie in fig...Look at the chart...but that is for female x male cross and PERSISTANCE should pass as we have synthetic gaP/gaP viable 'feminized' pollen.

According to the above chart, when you add in the FEMINIZED POLLEN gaP/gaP...PERSISTANCE WILL PASS.....AGAIN, THIS IS 'FEMINIZED POLLEN WITH THE GENETICS gaP/gaP and VIABLE! Cross this on to female cultivar gaP/gaP and what do you get? NEXT!

Again the Japanese are using GA3 BECAUSE IT WORKS IN CREATING S1 fig hybrids! What do you get when you cross gaP+/gaP+ x gaP+/gaP+(feminized viable pollen)? You get gaP+/gaP+ female plants 100% across the board! Look at the genetics I just wrote down...IT IS CORRECT and REALIZE that feminized gaP+/gaP+ pollen is VIABLE! BOY, THAT OPENS LOTS OF S1 HYBRID BREEDING POSSIBLITIES!

Just remember on the above chart the pollen is not coming from a male Caprifig BUT A FEMALE COMMON FIG SELECT CULTIVAR PURE PISTILLATE HERMIE THAT IS FORCED INTO CREATING MALE SEX ORGANS WITH gaP+/gaP+ viable pollen...which most landrace fig can make naturally as they are all pistillate hermies pure pistillate hermies that can make feminized viable pollen....Again, if they have a paper on this in Japan, IT WORKS OR THEY WOULD NOT HAVE PUBLISHED! And if it is GA3, I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING AS I AM AN EXPERT ON QUANTITATIVE GENETIC BREEDING SYSTEMS IN HERMAPHRODITE PLANTS...Cannabis, hop and now looks like fig too...:)

I am using ALL the genetics the fig breeders talk about.. I just say get rid of 'MULE FLOWER'.. that is just WRONG and understand that fig is not Gynodioecious! That is just a BAD TERM TO USE IN FIG!!! FIG ARE HERMIES ACROSS THE BOARD!!! The ONLY REASON the 'Hermaphrodite Bell Curve' has been shifted in common fig is because of intervention! I bet if you look at wild fig populations the breeding system looks exactly like the Hermaphrodite Bell Curve' I showed you prior with the majority of plants being straight up Hermie and pure pistillate hermies and pure staminate hermies as outliers. It is just with selection that the natural 'Hermaphrodite Bell Curve' has been shifted in fig, Cannabis and hop to favor the pistillate hermaphrodites and pure pistillate hermies....

Pure staminate Hermie (GAP/gaP)---->Staminate Hermie(GAP/gaP)----->Hermie(GAP/gaP)<-----Pistillate Hermie(gaP/gaP)<------Pure Pistillate Hermie(gaP/gaP)

The above would be WILD POPULATIONS OF CANNBIS, HOP AND PROBABLY FIG TOO! Selection has altered the distribution as we IGNORE HERMIES in Cannabis and hop and and concentrate on the pistillate hermie and pure pistillate hermie plants....same for fig.....But my guess would be, go out in the wild and you will find the about disttribution in wild fig with most plants being straight up hermie and fewer staminate hermies and even fewer pure staminate hermies and same goes for the pistillate side of the bell curve.....The above is a wild population 'NORMAL DISTRIBUTION'...bell curve...like in grade school...WHERE AM I ON THE CURVE? We all know about that...but this hermie bell curve in Cannabis, hop and now looks like fig has been altered/shifted by selection, but the above genetic breeding system and distribution appears to be going on in fig too! That is all I am saying and you can take fig out of the FIG BREEDING DARK AGES with just a little more solid information about what looks to be going on in fig....

Again, I do not see ANYTHING in the genetics of feminized pollen production that would raise red flags and tell me this S1 hybrid breeding using GA3 on fig breba would not work! If they wrote a paper about it in Japan and published it...THE TECHNIQUE PROBABLY WORKS!!! I am JUST FILLING ALL YOU FIG BREEDERS AND 'POTENTIAL' FIG BREEDER IN ABOUT WHAT LOOKS TO BE GOING ON IN FIG USING PUBLISHED INFORMATION ON FIG GENETICS TO BACK ME UP ALONG WITH INFORMATION ON HERMIE AND DIOECIOUS CONDITION IN PLANTS AND HOW THAT RELATES TO QUANTITATIVE GENETIC BREEDING SYSTEMS IN THESE PLANTS!

Oh, AND ALTHOUGH I USE SOME FANCY SCIENCE WORDS...THIS IS SIMPLE!!!! STONERS ARE DOING THIS IN CANNABIS...COME ON!!! YOU PEOPLE HAD ALL THE INFORMATION BUT AGAIN, WERE NOT CONNECTING THE DOTS CORRECTLY AND I DECIDED YOU NEEDED TO BE FILLED IN TO GET YOU OUT OF THE 'FIG BREEDING DARK AGES' AND GET IT TO THE STATUS EQUAL TO THAT OF 'FEMINIZED SEED PRODUCTION' IN CANNABIS....

The biggest reason why I am confident this will work and persistance will not be an issue is in the landrace natural pistillate hermie fig that produce the occasional viable seed! The offspring IS A NEAR CLONE OF THE MOTHER WITH JUST A LITTLE SOMA CLONAL VARIATION IN THE QUANTITATIVE GENETICS OF THE OFFSPRING. So, you get the same taste, but STRENGTH MAY VARY, YIELD MAY VARY....Things like that...but the amount of variation will vary...:) Some S1 crosses might yield CLONE-LIKE RESULTS!!! It happens in Cannabis!

So when a S1 hybrid cross gaP+/gaP+ x gaP+/gaP+, a cross that 'NORMALLY' would never happen, gives you gaP+/gaP+ offspring 100%. What's not to like?

The only question I have is: Is the feminized pollen gaP+/gaP+ viable? But given what goes on in landrace fig naturally producing feminized all female seed from all female pollen, my guess is, the Japanese technique works and YOU GOT THE GA3 concentration now people!!! Someone must have that paper and I am just filling you on a few things by giving you some information you clearly know nothing about and connecting some dots for fig breeders...thats all....

Again, looking at the genetics of 'FEMINIZED POLLEN' gaP+/gaP+ and VIABLE (most-likely)....MY GOSH...THE FUN THINGS FIG BREEDERS CAN DO WITH THIS INFO!!!! GA3 is a natural plant hormone, by the way, for those who do not know. It can just do some funky things in plants at high concentrations relative to normal concentrations in plant cells. Someone asked about GA3 and root formation...NO...Rooting compounds are Auxins IAA and whatnot and some Cytokinins for cell division I think...go look a bottle of Olivia's rooting gel.....

Oops, the Caprfig is P and +, but that does not change what I said...P IS EGG LETHAL AND NOT SPERM LETHAL!!! FEMINIZED POLLEN IS VIABLE AND PERSISTENT AND ALL FEMALE!!!!

I showed the genetics as gaP+/gaP+ when it should be gaP/ga+ viable feminized pollen, right? Yeah, looking at the chart above the alleles persistence are P and + and egg lethal, but not sperm lethal...So again feminized pollen (sperm) NOT LETHAL AND WE SHOULD BE OK!