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fig cuttings questions...

Hello all,
I read the guide here on rooting cuttings and it cleared up a lot of vagueness or different methods I been reading in other tutorials ...
Had some questions still left though that may help other people and didn't want to bother anyone specifically with answering all these questions [ Bass/Herman/etc :) ]:
I got these structured as bold numbered questions below to make it easy to track answers :). Thanks for any info guys.

1. If getting the cuttings started in a bag, do you prefer using damp paper towels or damp newspaper (read someplace newspaper ink discourages mold growth).
Mold seems to be mostly and issue of fresh air. puff the bag up for more air volume and air them out regularly. Sphagmum moss, instead of paper seems to inhibit mold, as well. Paper type doesn't seem to be an issue.
2. I read one thread almost the same exact steps, but the person was more worried about mold and washed the cuttings beforehand with toothbrush/anti-bacterial soap (not just warm water), and then dipped them afterwards in 1partbleach/9parts water to definitely make sure cuttings are clean... and then airdried them before putting them in the paper towel/ziplock.
Would you guys recommend the same, or would the anti-bacterial soap and bleach steps be overkill (and in fact possibly harmful)? Shouldn't be harmful, See, also, #1 above.
3. I read one person slightly cuts a 'wound' in the bottom of cutting end with a knife so it forces the cutting to focus on healing that end of branch ... and since the plant focuses on the end of the cutting, roots may grow better if slightly damage the cutting like that. Any truth in that? I wouldn't think so. A fresh would can lead to rot. Better if they are callused over or dried just a bit at the bottom end.
4. Are there any mixtures you would recommend when you transfer rootings to plastic cup step. I saw coarse vermiculate, or 60% fine vermiculate 40% perlite.
Whats more common to find at garden center/easier to find (or amazon links to good brands I can buy). The material is not so much the issue. You need to be concerned about particle size and water holding ability. The finer the particle size, the more water it holds, and the less air is in the mix. Perlite dust and fines hold too  much water and lead to rot, just like other materials which hold too much water and not enough air. You need both. Some materials, like vermiculite naturally hold more water. Coarse Perlite holds very little (maybe too little).
5. figs4fun member told me in email recently that "You have to keep [the cuttings] in the refrigerator(vegetable bin),at least 10 days to get dormancy time.
Once they got dormancy time they will be growing right away if you provide condition:warmth and moisture.
" I just thought I'd ask here to clarify...
Lets say I keep my cuttings buried in the ground, (or in refrigerator) to keep them dormant till spring when i will root them... I am confused why putting them in refrigerator to get 'dormancy time' will help them to grow... It seems like putting them in fridge to keep them dormant will cause them to do opposite (not grow) during that time period. I think I'm just reading that statement wrong possibly, but thought Id ask what he meant. (Maybe he meant if they are buried in ground, then move them to fridge for 10 days after un-bury them? or just make sure to keep them dormant so they will grow later). Not sure. Not sure that cold storage is necessary. It is definitely not needed for green cuttings, and probably detrimental. Dormant cuttings probably don't need it.

Anyway that'll clear up the steps to root cuttings other people give me. But I had questions on how to take cuttings themselves... Think I read I should go for branches that are pencil-finger thickness and cut them about 6-8 inch (cut them with i guess a few amount of buds? on the branch). All you need is one  bud. However, 6-8" is a good size to work with. 3/8-1/2" is probably somewhat optimum,  but tbinner cuttings can be rooted, and I have rooted cuttings up to 2" in diameter.
6. Is their a best place to cut the branch so that the branch leftover on donor tree can still offshoot and grow easily and not look ugly? and also cut it in such a way so the cutting can more easily root. I'm thinking either cut it right above a bud so the donor tree can offshoot from it right at the tip where it was cut and not look ugly (since it'll hide the cut better) ... ORRRRR cut it right below a bud, so that the cutting can root out of that (I don't think if roots more easily come out of buds or they really come out of any part of the branch... if latter then, making the cutting right above the bud makes more sense to me so donor tree still looks good). If you leave 2-3 nodes on first years growth, that should provided plenty of buds on the parent tree, Cutting root, most often at the bottom regardless of bud location. Some root better at buds and some root anywhere they feel like.
7. Any preferred angle to make the cuts or perfect horizontal cuts are fine. No preference.
8. I guess people just gradually prune the tree to take cuttings. Like take 1 cutting from a few available branches that are available to cut. but just curious.... Can you follow the branch down and keep on taking cuttings from same branch? It seems like most people do, because in pictures of cuttings i see, both ends of branch are cut. Make as many cutting from a branch whenever you feel like it.




#####################################
P.S. Im sure you'll see this Bass... My friend invited me last weekend to take some cuttings of that tree you are interested, so we agreed to meet at his uncles... I got all ready to go, It was a nice day outside so decided to ride down on my motorcycle with a backpack/pruning shears ... I smelled of gas since I had been working with some gas/motorcycle earlier ... and right as I was about to leave, he informs me that there may be a lot of people at his uncles since they were holding a memorial for their grandpa (he failed to inform me earlier about this important piece of information lol). I felt bad I would show up on a motorcycle, in ripped jeans, and smell horrible just to steal some cuttings during a memorial lol (especially since I don't know his family that well). But just wanted to say I didn't forget about you. I'm going on vacation Dec3-14 and 18-26, so I'll try to take 'em sometime in next month.
9. Can I taking cuttings anytime during dormancy is fine right? Yes. But freshness matters when rooting, so do not take too early unless the wood much be lost to frost/freeze.
10. Followup question... Are cuttings taken in March/April (or right before you would get started on rooting them) just as good as those in early-mid dormancy (November-Jan) Maybe better See #9..

11. quick question i just thought of... so to bring a plant out of dormancy, you take it out of garage as it gets warmer...  I guess X hours over Y degrees brings trees out of dormancy... just curious what X/Y variables would be here. I was originally thinking freezing(32 degrees)... but i was like garages (and refrigerators for cuttings) probably don't get that cold over winter. Like I'm willing to bet my garage above freezing through most of winter.

Edits in red by "Pitangadiego". Moderatorishness has its privileges. ;-))

I'm no expert, but I know what's worked for me.  So I'm answering these on that premise.

1) I wrap my cuttings with whatever works or is handy.  Usually a well-rung out, CLEAN but slightly damp paper towel is what's handy, so that's what I use.  This is a 'personal preference' thing, I suggest you try both.  I didn't like using sphagnum moss, too complicated and it seems that (while mold doesn't like it,) fungus gnats go bananas over it.

2) I use a soap scrub with toothbrush and 10 parts water to 1 parts bleach mix. After the scrub-down, scrubbing the leaf scars especially and all nooks and crannies really good, I dunk my sticks in the bleach dilution and let sit for about a minute, then pull out and rinse well, then allow to fully air dry.  Truth be told, I think the antibacterial soap is baloney, believe me, the bleach solution is going to adequately kill any bacteria on the cutting, the purpose for soap + toothbrush scrubbing is to debride any possible food material from the cutting so mold has nothing to feed on.

3) i know 'Danab' recommended that a good way to get a stubborn cutting to root is to cut around the base near a node.  I found this worked on the two that I tried, but I have no evidence to say that it worked for any other reason than it was time for the cutting to come out of its slumber.  I argue that every leaf scar is a "wound", so I don't see why it is logical to say that cutting into a branch is nearly as bad as a leaf scar, which is a gaping wound on a cutting (must scrub those very well!  Common source for mold to eat!).  In my mind, it is illogical to think that a single cut into bark would be even a fraction as bad as a leaf wound, fresh or otherwise.  OR any worse than when you need to snap off premature growth or figs from a feisty cutting. 

NOTE:  Plants in the ficus genus seem to be notorious for having a large number of undifferentiated cells, which can either become root or bark or whatever.  So, technically, cutting or notching a plant inspires new cell growth, which with undifferentiated cells, can result in roots forming where once was bark.  This is the basic principle behind airlayering, and why airlayering works.  Read up on undifferentiated cells in plants for more info.

4) I would never in a million years use vermiculite.  Period.  Not when rooting.  Too fine, holds too much water.  If starting in cups, indoors, I could never in a million years fathom using anything less than a 50% coarse perlite mix, although I truthfully like doing more of an 80% perlite, 20% potting mix (NO fertizler inside!!).  Don't buy into the hype on potting mixes.  Yard dirt will work fine, cuttings don't need any significant nutrients until they've been growing for several months (4-6 months or more). 

5) I don't buy into the refrigerator/dormancy hype either.  I started 100+ cuttings this last year with the vast majority getting no cold storage.  I had about 90% rooting rate in the end, with about 75% survival (lost a lot during 2 weeks in Spain/Italy).  Of the ones I put in the fridge, I lost damned near half to rot and other issues.  The lack of cold didn't hinder my cuttings from what I can tell, and the refrigerator was more of a death sentence than *I* was!!

6) Don't have an opinion.  I cut all of my trees back to whatever point will result in a nice shape, shrubs and plants alike.  Well, except for finicky corner case plants like Rosemary or Roses, where you need to cut back to a specific location for best results (or to ensure a plant will live).  Figs, like Mulberries, are a weed.  No matter where you cut them back to, if the thing still has roots, it's going to grow back.  The only way to kill one that's in-ground is to dig the main root ball out of the ground.

7) Always make cuts in a manner that water will not stagnate during or after healing.  When the wood hardens and hollows later, you can remove any excess points.

8) I agree, this is personal judgement. 

9) You can take cuttings any time, dormancy or not.  Most people prefer to take cuttings during dormancy, but others argue that trees are more apt to grow quickly when the tree is vigorously growing.  Again, the concept of airlayering is pretty solid proof of this - vigorous rooting when the tree is actively growing.  I wouldn't buy into the dormancy hype here either.

10) See #9

11) I don't know what triggers awakening in figs, but with many plants, it's a combination of soil temperature and ambient temperature, with soil temp being the big motivator.

PS - I just want to add a couple of more notes.  First, a comment from Jon that is worth a thousand words:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitangadiego
Part of the whole rooting "thing" is adapting what others are doing to your own situation. Rather than seeing a technique as a set-in-stone recipe. Different people have different climates, access or not to a greenhouse, and other supplies. So each person has to take the principles and adapt them to their own situation. That's why I like hearing what others are doing - I learn new ideas, too.


I would urge you to try a little bit of everything your first time and see what works best for you.  Regardless of what some may tout, there is no method that is going to get you 100% success, and there is no such thing as a fail-proof plan.  Propagation is not rocket science, and where we often fail is when we OVERTHINK or OVER-RESEARCH it.  Less thinking and more doing will net you great results.

Good luck!


Wow, thanks satellitehead and Pitangadiego. I numbered my questions so peeps could fill the ones they could answer... I didnt think 2 people would answer all my questions! Thanks!

I guess some followups...

Quote:
I started 100+ cuttings this last year with the vast majority getting no cold storage.

Since you said you dont do cold storage, does that mean you took cuttings in the spring and most survived?
(or you took cuttings in the winter and just left them around the house until spring?)

Quote:
I would never in a million years use vermiculite.  Period.  Not when rooting

The tutorial here (which i think Pitangadiego/Encanto Farms wrote) recommends "coarse vermiculite" if you going 100% of it (or mix of fine vermiculite with perlite if thats hard to find). Have you tried just the 'coarse' kind to test out? I'll probably try those two methods and your mix and see what works out for me.
Reference:
Quote:
http://figs4fun.com/basics.html  "Coarse vermiculite produces very good results. The coarse texture allows for good air penetration in the media, while the vermiculite holds the moisture well. When I couldn’t get the coarse vermiculite anymore, I switched to a mix of 60% Perlite and 40% finer vermiculite. This medium also works well."


Quote:
Propagation is not rocket science, and where we often fail is when we OVERTHINK or OVER-RESEARCH it.

haha, true :). Just trying to perfect a plan of attack so I'm prepared and not caught off-guard by common mistakes... and If there is an ultimate method a pro uses more often, then Id like to know his secrets ;).

Regarding Vermiculite. It is not my current preferred method, but it works fine if it is coarse enough and you do not overwater. If it is too fine, it mats down and excludes air. I stopped using it when I couldn't find the coarse stuff any more. Vermiculite is added to potting mixes precisely because it holds water. If it is coarse enough, it allows air in while it holds a nice amount of moisture. Again, it is all about the water/air balance. Sand works fine, as well, but it it is too fine it doesn't allow enough air either.

The vermiculite does have one nice feature, it stays loose and pouts right out of the cup, when you are ready to transplant to a larger pot.
 

Quote:
Perlite dust and fines hold too  much water and lead to rot, just like other materials which hold too much water and not enough air. You need both.

Quote:
It is not my current preferred method


Pitangadiego, so what products and mixture ratio do you recommend to start off with nowadays (seems like based on your first post you recommend a balance of both perlite/vermiculite)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by persianninja

Pitangadiego, so what products and mixture ratio do you recommend to start off with nowadays (seems like based on your first post you recommend a balance of both perlite/vermiculite)?

Might be out of line for me to answer, but I would say ... See this link:
http://figs4fun.com/Rooting_Bag_New_Style.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by persianninja
The tutorial here (which i think Pitangadiego/Encanto Farms wrote) recommends "coarse vermiculite" if you going 100% of it (or mix of fine vermiculite with perlite if thats hard to find). Have you tried just the 'coarse' kind to test out? I'll probably try those two methods and your mix and see what works out for me.


Remember, some of the material here is dated.  See the link I shared above for the method Jon (Encanto/Pitangadiego) shared last year as an update.

FWIW, I got vermiculite last year and tried it.  It is too damn hard to find coarse vermiculite in my area.  You will run into similar problems with finding some of the highly-acclaimed materials in your area. 

Generally, this is normal for everyone - inability to find what somoene says is the silver bullet - so I will warn you/advise you to make sure you think about the concept of the material and the actual ingredients before going overboard spending more than a couple of days to find something another person swears is key.  No value in buying expensive crap that costs a ton to get when you have something something cheap already laying around that will work satisfactory... or maybe better!  This is how improvements are found to existing methods! 

Examples of 'concept' and 'actual ingredients': 

Perlite; the concept is light, sterile, chunky material that doesn't hold water, so really, anything light, chunky, doesn't hold water will do (you can sterilize anything by baking in the oven for a period of time). 

Pro-Mix BX potting mix; Read the ingredients, there are a half dozen mixes you can find cheap/locally that contain all the same stuff and sometimes more, like Fafard 3B (just get it close to the right ingredients).

Personally, the Miracle Gro Vermiculite I got wasn't coarse enough.  Held way too much water.  I was not happy with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by persianninja
Since you said you dont do cold storage, does that mean you took cuttings in the spring and most survived?
(or you took cuttings in the winter and just left them around the house until spring?)


No, I cleaned them, bagged them up and started rooting them on top of my refrigerator the minute they arrived, in most all cases.  I had no adverse problems, except for a short time towards the end when fungus gnats appeared (I added mosquito dunks to the water to kill em) and when I bought an infected plant from someone (it arrived spider mites and mealy bugs and infected several other plants, neem oil mix fixed it).  Some of these things are unavoidable in many cases when you deal with houseplants/indoor propagation.


NOTE: Beware of Root Knot Nematode and pests when buying plants from even the most trusted source.  Always inspect the roots, and always keep new plants isolated from your new stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by persianninja
Quote:
Propagation is not rocket science, and where we often fail is when we OVERTHINK or OVER-RESEARCH it.

haha, true :). Just trying to perfect a plan of attack so I'm prepared and not caught off-guard by common mistakes... and If there is an ultimate method a pro uses more often, then Id like to know his secrets ;).


There is no one-stop ultimate method.  My ultimate method was a combination of multiple methods that were other people's ultimate methods, but really sucked for me (see Jon's prior quote I posted). 

There are several documented ones out there, pick three and see how they work out for you!  Most of them will explain the pitfalls, I will tell you the biggest ones I found:  Too much moisture/caring too much/watering too often!  I mention this all the time in my threads.

If I can save you some legwork with hidden gems, please see posts 11, 13 and 14 of this thread:

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=4977822

And this post:

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3007893

And this post also:

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=4019565



Thanks satellitehead those links helped.

Quote:
No, I cleaned them, bagged them up and started rooting them on top of my refrigerator the minute they arrived, in most all cases. 

Last question based on that statement... I am getting a few cuttings next week. For some reason I assumed I would keep them cold/dormant all winter (by keeping in fridge or buried outside in a bag) and try to root in spring...
Is it more recommended to just try to root them right when i get them as it seems you do? Re-reading Herman's email, it seems like he said I should let them stay in fridge for 10 days and then start rooting them. I guess I just assumed since its winter and I was thinking a month+ after rooting and leaves start appearing, what to do with all these plants since I dont have a greenhouse :). Just gradually put them in sunlight indoors?

Thanks


Again, I will remind you about the whole "opinions and practices" thing, and how what everyone does around here and elsewhere seems to be more preference than fact, more voodoo than science.  The ones who yell the loudest about science to the point of evangelism are the ones I steer away from the most.

Like ... And I mean no harm or disrespect here ... but on the topic of "how much cold", NAFEX fruit expert Ray Givan says it varies, and his Sal's fig likes 3 months in the fridge.  Herman says 10 days in the fridge.  Jon at Encanto says it seems to be easier to root when the tree is still "juicy" (actively growing/not dormant).  Again - clearly, everyone has their thing.  There are too many factors to accurately figure this out for every variety, so, again - do what works for you.

Now, I don't have as much experience as those guys, but I will tell you that I've had marked success going straight to rooting immediately - granted, some of the cuttings I received were from people who refrigerated, but they all generally rooted fine.  If you don't want your house full of freaking cups everywhere and plants all over, and don't want to deal with routine maintenance, then ... maybe you should refrigerate.  Or maybe you can refrigerate 6 of one kind, and root one at a time to practice?

FYI also, I just let them root in my incubator bins (no greenhouse here), and when they started leafing out WITH good root growth showing, I 'sleeved' my clear cup and put the fig in indirect light, then gradually moved to a sunny window.  I think I have pictures of this in one of those threads I linked, and a pic is worth a thousand words here.

I will reiterate that figs are pretty much weeds, whether we like that comparison or not ;).  I don't think (for the most part) they really care if they see near-freezing temps, they just want to grow, as most weeds do.  It's not like you're dealing with japanese maples that require you to stratify the seeds through multiple cold cycles to get them to germinate. 

In the end, this 'fridge versus no fridge' argument is something many people could argue on all day and you'd hear 1,000 different opinions.  I'm just sharing mine, and it may not be right.  It has worked for me, though.

PS - this year I'm dicking around with some other things this year too.  I took cuttings off a recent unknown I found, and I stuck a half dozen of them in pots on the north (shaded) side of my house.  I buried them about 8" deep and I'm leaving them outside all winter.  I also took another and stuck it about a foot deep in the Georgia clay with a tranlsucent-plastic-wrapped tomato cage to act as a greenhouse.  We will see what happens.  If the cuttings in the pots do really well, I'm just going to give up on the baggies and shove cuttings into them and put them outside all winter :) 

Cool, I'll probably end up trying rooting some now to practice, and most later.

I'm curious, the ones that you are messin' around with and buried 8" deep... is that covering up the whole cutting (to keep them dormant for whole winter and you'll unbury it later to see if roots form in early spring)? or a little is sticking up from the dirt (like you thinking maybe roots might form with moisture even while cold outside)?

This is a good thread...a little hard to read but good.  I've read this thread at least 4 times now.  Good comments Jason.  It seemed like all the Vermiculite around in my area is too fine. And the same is true with perlite.  I found a garden supply store and guess what?  They have course vermiculite and course perlite in huge bags at a reasonale price.  I bought the perilte and I love the large size.

I have Pro-Mix BX and I have to say I like it better than some others.  To me, it is very light and superb for cuttings!  I also like MG.  I add more perlite to it sometimes depending on the pot I am using.  I've used Fafard and it is very good also.  Good thread!  cheers,

Quote:
Originally Posted by persianninja

I'm curious, the ones that you are messin' around with and buried 8" deep... is that covering up the whole cutting (to keep them dormant for whole winter and you'll unbury it later to see if roots form in early spring)? or a little is sticking up from the dirt (like you thinking maybe roots might form with moisture even while cold outside)?

Like, the cuttings are about 18"-20" long, and I have about 6"-8" buried.  The intent is this:  if this goes well, I will have at least 6 fig trees already in 1 gallon pots, and I won't need to transfer.  Because of this, I planted them in a 1 gallon pot using 85% potting mix, 15% perlite concoction (mostly dirt, some added perlite).

I saw something interesting from forum member loslunasfarms where he buries his horizontally (but I don't think he overwinters).  I've read where professional nurseries overwinter underground by burying in sand, or filling a tube with sand and packing in cuttings.

It doesn't get too terribly cold in Georgia. I think as long as I keep snow off the cuttings, they may be fine.

Quote:
Like, the cuttings are about 18"-20" long

wow, those are long cuttings!...

For regular style of rooting cuttings in a bag/cup, ive seen 50-80% Perlite with some other stuff added to the cup.
Why for this outside experiment, would you cut that down to 15%? Quick guess: Will the Perlite hold too much water from things cant control like rain and hence you thought to cut the  %
of that down?

Jason has accumulated most of the pertinent threads and links. So I won't go over that territory.

This past season I used a greenhouse instead of the small plastic storage boxes indoors. The increased volume of air seemed to have virtually eliminated the mold issues, which seemed to confirm prior efforts in that direction: leaving the box lids somewhat open, puffing up the bags with cuttings in them and changing the air from time to time.

When I went to the bags, it was a space saving issued but worked quite well, and I skipped the initial rooting with the cuttings wrapped in paper. I theorized that the chemicals in the compost were an aid to rooting as well as providing the water holding component of my rooting mix (the rest is perlite). I still want to do some experiments with soaking the rooting end of the cuttings in humic acid (a root stimulant, but not a known rooting stimulant),

Late season cuttings that were somewhat hardened, but still "green" with leaves (which get removed) have mostly rooted very well - better than dormant cuttings - but that is not a viable option in most cases as dormant cuttings are generally much more available.

Jason says it well when he emphasizes that everyone has to observe the principles, and then work out a method that optimizes the conditions by observing those principles. It is still more are than science and not all cutting work, no matter what you do. Experiment, win some, lose some, learn some, and enjoy.

Quote:
I have Pro-Mix BX and I have to say I like it better than some others.  To me, it is very light and superb for cuttings!  I also like MG.  I add more perlite to it sometimes depending on the pot I am using.  I've used Fafard and it is very good also.  Good thread!  cheers,


cool, I'll probably stick to stuff I can find closer to Philly in a garden center.
Seems like alot of peeps tried Perlite and (ProMix BX or Fafard 3B) rooting medium. Sounds good to me.

( For peeps near NJ, i heard these guys carry Coarse Vermiculite:
http://www.dgsupplies.com/Coarse-Grade-Vermiculite-3-Cu-Ft_p_70.html
http://www.whmilikowski.com/products.html [couldnt find, heard they have it cheap though])

Fertilome UPM (Ultimate Potting Mix) is another potting mix you'll see people rave about as being the best out there.  Contains all the same stuff as Pro-Mix BX and Fafard 3B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by persianninja
Quote:
Like, the cuttings are about 18"-20" long

wow, those are long cuttings!...

For regular style of rooting cuttings in a bag/cup, ive seen 50-80% Perlite with some other stuff added to the cup.
Why for this outside experiment, would you cut that down to 15%? Quick guess: Will the Perlite hold too much water from things cant control like rain and hence you thought to cut the  %
of that down?


Normally I wouldn't bother going that long, I took two shorter ones as well to tinker, Im just playing around at this point.

For monitored rooting, I use clear cups + chunky (almost all perlite) mix; no nutrition is required for months (it comes from inside the cutting), so perlite is fine.  My cuttings are 6"-8" long.  Anything longer (and I've tried it) will work, but it is unmanagable, and they don't easily fit in the box!  I tried with UCD cuttings last year, and they fit in the box, but they were clumsy.  I'd rather go small and have 3x the chance for success ;)

When re-potting (after monitored rooting in cups), I use opaque pots + a nutritional potting mix; nutrition is required to foster continued growth, I don't need to watch the roots anymore or ultra-closely monitor the water. 

So .... with all of that ^^ in mind....

For this little pots outside experiment, the pots are opaque, I am not going to monitor the roots, I'm just going to do what nature normally does - it's like putting a stick in the ground, which is how figs have been propagated for centuries.  So, I use the same potting mix I would use for anything else to mimic being in the ground - the same potting mix I would transfer my cuttings into after rooting in cups. 

Basically, by trying direct-in-the-ground, I'm trying to skip the monitored rooting process.  Which means skipping the items used for monitored rooting:  the clear 16oz cup, the perlite-heavy mix, the bins, the indoor part, etc.

 

Hey all,
Just wanted to update:
Got my first few roots on a Paradiso White, Seems like all my Paradiso's started white rooting initials within 10 days, and this one had roots after one more week. and had some followup questions:

1. Can I put it in step 2 (the plastic cup/plastic storage bin) with that kinda root growth, or I need more roots to form or current ones get longer? Couple pics attached. PS had more moisture in that bag than i wanted as you can see in background, but seemed to work for this variety.

2.
Also when moving to the plastic box, is it alright that the top is not fully enclosed?
Have some in there currently to test rooting in there as someone liked in this forum vs ziplock-bag and the top doesn't get completely closed since I have an inch or 2 of egg-crate on bottom so cups dont sit in moisture. Think the posts i read says thats fine and even recommended so doesnt get too moist/mold, but wanted to confirm.

3.
and lastly, i remember reading to remove leaves in the bag as they will rot in there... But in the plastic box, should leaves be removed so cutting can still focus on roots? or let it leaf out in there?

Thanks!,
Arian

Let me link up to the pics i uploaded:







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The rootlets you have formed are more than sufficient to transfer.  2-3 roots of 1/4"-1/2" length is a great start if you want to see roots first. 

NOTE:  See how the roots look fat?  It's actually fuzzy.  If you leave them outside, exposed, they will dry out in a heartbeat.  I left some out for 5 minutes once, and they were hair thin and never returned.

For moving the box, don't think it matters.  I keep mine cracked all the time.  Keeps some fresh air coming in.

For the leaves, leaves in baggies are bad.  Leaves inside the bin are fine.  The whole thing is you don't want the leaves to touch moist/humid plastic or they'll rot and become food for mold.  You can't avoid them touching the sides of the bag (tight space) which is why you want to remove them.  Teh bin is a vast wide open space, so it's totally fine :)

Cool, thanks satellitehead and everyone for getting my first fig cutting rooted! :)

I am working on a few cuttings of Paradiso White, White Atreano, Sal's Corleone, LSU Gold, Marseilles Black currently. Looks like White Atreano and Marseilles Black might be next to form roots. Rest look a little dull but I'll wait it out. A few i experimented with going straight to storage bin/plastic cup look a little dull, while ones in bag at least have some green buds and look non-dormant. I know its not a good idea as it could damage roots if forms... but I did take the soil out slowly on some the plastic box ones, and see no roots, soil was a bit wet so going to add some more Perlite to the mix for better drainage, and re-cup those. I do like the idea of this method just using a perlite mix early on as it seems like no mold issues as much as just air/water in bag method (but just hasnt been successful as baggie method).

I think next time I root, I'll do the new alternative plastic 'Urline' bag method. Seems like it'll cut down on mold.

One more question... Do people ever use mycorrhizae fungi tablets in the plastic cups to promote root growth? or the roots don't need to suck in any nutrients as plant is using internal energy... so not needed until plant up/move to ground in springtime?       
         
Also I think i used yer setup with the plastic cups satellitehead... with an 80% perlite mix in the plastic cup and 5 draineage holes in shape of dice,  and some holes on side (burned them in quick with a soldering iron hehe)... How often and how much do you water a single cup/cutting? I am trying to figure out with condensation on sides how much to water, but i dont want to kill it on first day... do you water enough so it actual drains within first minute, and then wait a couple days before watering again? Thanks for any advice on this

I keep the lid of my bin cracked about a half inch on adjacent corners.  I open the bin every other day, use the lift for 3-4 waves to fan some fresh air into the bin, then lift my cups to feel how "heavy" they are (checking the water content).

I am usually adding about about 1/3 -1/2 of a shot glass of water every 3-5 days, depending on the ambient temp and humidity in the room.  It's one of those things - it's going to be different for everyone depending on your home environment, location, tons of things.

The best thing I can tell you is NOT how much water *I* use.  Best thing I can do for you is to explain the concept of "feeling" how heavy your cups are and going light on the water.

If you need to practice how heavy a cup is, take some of your mix in a couple of cups, add a half a shot glass of water, a full shot glass, two shot glasses in different cups and lift them up.  Best exercise I could offer you.

As for the mycorrhizae question, I only use it on my in-ground trees, and only when planting (to inspire rooting).  I don't use it in pots.  I have tinkered with using other root stimulators (water-soluble) when watering.  I gotta be honest... didn't see a whole lot of difference.


Cool, thanks satellitehead!

One more question:
When there is bud/green growth at the bottom like this what do you do?
When I transfer it to the cup, this part will be covered ...
Looks like its a new bud moving upwards... Will it move all the way to the top eventually if i put it in a cup with 80%perlite? or should I pretty much view it as a goner? There is some top bud growth on this one, so not terribly worried about losing the bottom, but just thought I'd ask what peeps do with cuttings with growth like this.


Personally, I tear it off.  I tear off anything below the soil line.

Is it the correct thing to do?  I don't know.  There could be two schools of though:  Opening a wound below the soil could lead to rot.  Or, leaving a stem below the soil could lead to rot.

I would say break it off and wait for the wound to heal, but those roots will shrivel and dry out in less than 5 minutes if left out, so that's not possible.

I would default to the opinion of others on this one.

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