Great idea and endeavor to try to organize these like this.

I do agree I think Mission has to be separated from VdB these are a bit different flavor categories I would say.

You can put Kathleen's Black in the Mission, and based on what I hear Maltese Falcon with Mission too.

You can put Ronde that a member just asked about with VdB.

Martino,
Thanks for commenting.
I've put it with the Bordeaux for now.

Persianmd2orchard,
Thanks for commenting.
Although mission is a popular cultivar, its basic taste profile is similar to Bordeaux with its added "Rich" tastes when properly ripened. I have no descriptions or first hand knowledge of the taste of Maltese Falcon, so initially it would be placed in the Dark group.

Thanks, guys.

I have been thinking of getting an RdB because the comments I have been reading of it really makes it out of this world.  However, the price is prohibitive.  Hence I am really keen to know what is its nearest equivalent in taste?  And if it is just like VdB, then I will convince myself not to splurge on it.

Thanks for starting topic ascpete,
it is very useful for us....

Pete I agree actually and it's all relative. Very nice to have it organized like this. Mission certainly tastes more like VdB than say a Kadota. To me and I'm actually generally a lumper--its just enough sufficiently different in flavor I think and theres a bunch of varieties that taste very similar to it and a bunch that taste very similar to VdB that you could split em up pretty easily. But I definitely see the virtue in keepin em together too :). You can put Hollier in with Celeste too if you like.

Are you sure Sals Corleone/Palermo Red/Aldos are "sugar" profile? I have no idea just wondering if that's for sure?

@Martino RdB has thinner skin, smaller fruit and spherical (not elongated), a bit more cold hardy, and earlier season compared to VdB. VdB tastes fantastic if you want to start with that one.

Martino,
VDB is readily available, prolific, is easy to grow and is a very good tasting fig as has been posted by many Forum members.

Asep,
You're welcome.

persianmd2orchard,
IMO, Hollier is closer to the honey group than the sugar, same with LSU Gold. Yes, Sals Corelone and clones are closer to the sugar group, and a good Brown Turkey in flavor.

Thanks again Pete for takin a stab at this! Good to know Sals corleone is in that sugar group. I'm assuming that's based on first hand tasting?

Is your Hollier based on first hand tasting too? Because I ate a few recently and was surprised (was expecting honey but got sugar). I'm using Kadota as my honey standard when I say honey and celeste as my sugar standard when I say sugar. I also recently asked someone if LSU Gold is closer to celeste or Kadota in flavor... have you tasted LSU Gold first hand? I was surprised at LSU Gold pedigree because it looks more like it will taste like a Kadota but has Celeste blood in it so I don't know. I was assured though it tastes more like a Kadota...

I know this is all crazy subjective--but I think we're on to something--kind of--with these groupings.

Maltese Falcon I heard from respected member that has grown it more than most, that's similar taste group as mission/kathleens black. KB and MF are both large and amongst the best mission types. With KB seeming to be better adapted for us in Virginia.

Also with Hollier its quite pinkish on the interior like a Celeste it seems more than amber I found not that that always correlates with flavor... but it looks more sugar if you look at it closely and tasted more sugar to me recently. Unless I had the wrong fig! But all those LSU guys are tasting more to me like Celestes than Kadotas these days--doesn't surprise me too much given the pedigree of the LSUs and their aesthetics.

I'm starting to keep them organized in my mind as just categories of Celeste, Kadota, Mission, VdB, Hardy Chicago, Adriatic since those aren't hard for ppl to get a chance to sample to see what the category tastes like. It's not as fun to to simply say this new fig x tastes like a celeste or hardy chicago... it's more fun to really focus on the subtleties and nuances of the flavor notes perhaps... but honestly I think these categories help a lot and theres so much variation even amongst fruit on the same tree that a lot of the very specific nuances can mislead you from what the overall profile of the fig is. I think this helps a lot, bravo for takin a stab!

pete, where would you place morle paradissio?  when left on tree  close to wrinkling, the peach taste is overwhelming. no berry taste, little fig taste.

In trying to assimilate all the info available through the fig forum, it appears that we have two distinct reasons for combing through all the information we have on cultivars.  

One need is to identify an unknown variety or at least to be able to narrow the choices down to the most likely family to which this plant belongs.  To do this job, the most important characteristics are growth characteristics and appearance characteristics with taste characteristics being the last set of characteristics we examine.

The second major reason to sort though all the information we have is to select what cultivars we want to grow or add to our collections. In this case the most important characteristics are going to be things like taste, fruit color, seasonality (early, mid-season, late) hardiness characteristics and climate considerations (high humidity, desert conditions) with considerations like leaf shape or petiole color not major considerations. So the search criteria are almost of the reverse in importance to of those used to identify a cultivar. 

The Analyst in me says that if we can agree on the characteristics required for each job and a reasonable number sub-characteristic for each major characteristic, it would be possible to develop an application/tool which allowed users to drill down to get a list of candidate cultivars for either purpose.

Anyhow, its food for thought. I would be willing to work toward developing these tools or organizing data if the group decided to try to develop something like this.

I hate to ask to add another variety to the grouping but Brunswick, with all its faults when growing in humid/rainy areas, is historically an important variety.  I used to have a Brunswick variant and consider it to be a good example of a honey fig - not sure if everyone agrees with this though.

Persianmd2orchard,
IMO, Hollier, Champagne and Gold are more honey than sugar. My initial fig reference taste was Hardy Chicago, all sampled figs were compared to its taste last year.

Susie,
I am not familiar with the Morle Paradiso, but other Paradisos  are similar to Brunswicks, so that puts it in the Sugar group.


Marianna,
I actually had reconsidered my initial statement about adding the family groups to the list. I plan on adding several categories and creating an Excel spreadsheet that will be posted to this topic for anyone to copy, I will also add an Acrobat format. Anyone else can copy the spreadsheet and convert to a database format for easy searching. I've also added an availability column with a rating from 1 to 10. 1 being as easy to find as hen's teeth. The same with vendors, 1 being private collectors and 10 being available commercially almost everywhere.




Rewton,
Brunswick  has been added to the Sugar group.

Very nice, thanks.

Best,
Tam

awesome. great work, pete.

The Preliminary PDF document. The fig cultivars (varieties) available from Encanto farms are not yet included and will be added. Comments for additional column categories are welcomed, since this is a work in progress.

Hi Pete, very informative thanks for posting. The White Triana I believe should belong to the number 2 category (Honey) I got mine from Joe Morle at Figtrees.net. It is a very sweet fig.

 Pete

pete, here's a silly little aside. my theory is that to find the true taste of any fig, it needs to be a bit dehydrated. most of our members are forced by weather to grab their figs as soon as just ripe. according to said theory, differences between varieties will be blurred.

unfortunately, there's no way to check if i'm right.

so, i'm just talking. but, i am cheering you on.

Pete (PHD),
Thanks. The format is an Excel spreadsheet and an eventual database format that can be easily edited and updated. Hopefully it can be proofed by members before its initial posting. I will edit the White Triana.

Susie,
I agree with you about the taste differing based on the degree of ripeness and or dessication. Most of the figs tasted this year were sweetest (developed the most sugars) just before the fully ripe stage, when the pulp is still not 100% translucent (jammy). Past that stage they start to develop more complex flavors. and in several cases (cultivars) they start to ferment (sour). I have been trying to compare actual fig flavors and taste when the figs are at that almost ripe stage (the pulp is only 75-85% translucent).

boy pete, that's a hard target you have there.

um, if you get a chance, i'd luv to know which cultivars tend to sour, so i could avoid them.  i wanna try for the complex flavors, so those that sour i need to stay away from.

Susie,
With a little trial and error, you will be able to tell when they are just to your taste. I posted a few pictures to an earlier topic on ripeness. The figs that soured are usually ones that have open eyes, or are large enough that the bottom (ostiole end) ripens well before the top and starts to sour before the whole fig is ripe, this usually happens in more humid environments. Actually that can be a Category...Eye Size. The usual remedy is to pick them early, San Pedro (California Brown Turkey) is one such cultivar, that's why it gets a bad rep.

IMO the best compromise ripeness for sugars and complex flavors.

thank you for the open eye tip, pete. if they need to be picked early, i'd rather avoid them entirely. the only advantage i have is the ability to let figs fully ripen due to lack of rain.

Pete,
Thanks for the pdf, it is a great project!
How does a number in the Vendors column (right most) relate to the Vendor's list (at the very bottom)?

Greenfig,
You're welcome.
1 ... Private Collectors
2 ... Private Collectors and Encanto Farms Nursery
3 ... or more Private Collectors and Encanto Farms and Vendors

It doesn't relate to the individual vendors by their number, it refers to "How many".
The actual Vendor can be added in a separate column, but I have decided not to do that, it can be added and customized by individuals. Also the actual fig varieties sold by the listed vendors are the fig varieties listed on the sheet.

Pete,
Thanks for the explanation but somehow I have a hard time understanding what you said.
Can you tell me what is 3/4 for the Wuhan, for example:

 180 Wuhan Purple-Brown Amber M 1 7   3 4

 129 Paradiso Genvoa

Greenfig,
Thanks for commenting
UC Davis repository is not a vendor, but their listing can be easily added to the spreadsheet, that is the reason for creating it.

Number: 180
Name: Wuhan
Fig exterior: Purple-Brown
Fig Interior: Amber
Fig Size: Medium
Taste group: 1 (sugar)
Coldest Zone: 7
Commercial Availability: 3 (Private Collectors plus 2 other sources)
Commercial Vendor: 4 (Private Collectors plus 3 other sources)

That typo is not a typo, that is how it was listed on the vendors website..