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FMV question

I have seen a lot discussed about this; just looking for a simple answer.

I bought a Black Mission Fig.  (Supposedly they mostly all have FMV).  Sure enough, my plant IS showing signs in the coloration of the leaves.

How should I proceed with this compared to the rest of my fig trees.

Is it likely to be transmitted to my other trees?

Is it not worth it to keep the Black Mission (should I destroy it)...

Should I keep them at a distance?

A lot of people say that this is very common among figs, yet, I also see that FMV does affect the health and production of the tree... so is it worth to not infect other trees if possible...

welcome. don't worry about FMV. ignore it. all your trees already have it. 

Touchy topic.....hmmmm   I am around Black Missions all the time, I think the commercial growers have trees with signs of FMV.  We have many in our neighborhood that shows no signs....maybe because they are older than 20 years.    FMV is transferred by mites, so maybe give it to a relative.  FMV is leaf distortion. I would keep the tree separated from the others.   We don't kill fig trees here...LOL

Lots of trees will show signs of FMV when young or under stress.
With suitable care, watering fertilization etc, most outgrow the symptoms.

Thanks for the above 3 posts... but again, I am looking for more specifics on if I should get rid of the tree or is keeping it apart from the other is a viable option.

Or is having them live together a viable option....

I mean, if given a choice between having FMV or not, I would think most would prefer NOT to have it...?

Bullet08 says that all my trees already have it - but I am not sure why he says that...

how many fig trees do you have? where did they come from? what are your sources? most nursery stocks are from older trees that were already been exposed to FMV. USDA/UCD stocks are all exposed to FMV. there is no such thing as FMV free fig tree in US. there might be trees not showing the symptom of FMV, but that doesn't mean they doesn't have it. 

FMV is Fig Mosaic Virus. you don't cure virus. sometimes, virus go dormant like cold sores and you just don't see it. when the tree is under extreme stress, it will pop up again. 

so, if you are set on growing fig trees, FMV is just a fact of life. if you start throwing away fig trees due to FMV, you won't have any fig trees left. if FMV is such a serious issue, USDA/UCD will not distribute their cuttings. 

some people like to believe there are FMV free trees. what they are seeing is a tree that currently doesn't show symptoms of FMV. 

I agree with Pete 100%! If my young trees show signs I over fertilize them and it seems to help but getting rid of a tree because of FMV doesn't make sense.

It's true it's like cold sores, you never know where it's gonna pop up.

I like the cold sore analogy.   

So - is there any benefit to separating plants (ie on different sides of the yard or patio) - 
or is that not even worth it?

it's not worth worrying about. RdB is one of more desired tree now days. most of the people growing it notice some form or shape of FMV, but it sure produce one of the best figs around. 

Pete,

Do you think that a RDB plant put on ebay that is stated as having signs of FMV would sell for the 100-200 that they have been going for?


tough question. to me personally, no. but to others, it might. lot of people wait around to get their hand on RdB. some just can't wait and some just have lot more disposable cash on their hand. Black Madeira, for example, is free from USDA/UCD. some people will go out of their way to buy that one. 

MJ- The virus is proven to be transmitted by mites and grafting only. You will not have mites outside in a rainy climate so no worries. 

some of us take fmv more seriously. personally, i burn infected plants.

i have an fmv free collection. mostly i get tissue cultured plants or cuttings from old unknowns.

i think of figs as a crop, unlike others here. i want maximum yield with the  minimum work, so i want healthy trees.

this is not the viewpoint held by most members here. they are nice people, but we disagree on this.

From all my readings, leaves and pruning branches of virused trees should be burned, not composted, not sent to any land fill that will end up in potting soil, etc. so, it is transmitting itself around quicker than children's cold in a daycare.

It bothered me also, but I don't have the heart to destroy my plants. I feel like they are sick and need to be cared for... like me, when I am sick the least I want is to be tossed aside, destroyed.. it is a personal choice. you may have a free virus collection, but if you buy any potting soil , amendments, or other store plants that come with soil you have a likelihood to be bringing in the virus anyway... so, why suffer?  So far, my trees are doing very well.

I must say I find blanket statements are always wrong. How dors one know that every single fig tree in the country has fmv? Psychic I guess. Check Dans cajun figs blog for a completely different perspective on fmv. Btw he seems to have a grudge with some fig members, but he also seems to have a lot of good info.

I don't think every single tree has it any more than every single person has herpes however, the potenial to have it or catch it is extremely high when both can be passed without any signs of infection showing.

As for Dan's blog, everyone knows about the grudge and it really doesn't need to be brought up here.

ok, my statement was blanket statement, but let's think about this.

one of the post brought up a good point. not everyone has herpes. now.. human reproduction is a sexual reproduction. certain gene will not be transmitted to new born. i'm sure everyone heard that AIDS might not be passed on to the new born in some cases. same thing with herpes. when there is a sexual reproduction, reproductive cells are.. combined to create a new.. being. chance of every exact gene being passed from mother to the child is.. almost impossible, since there also will be a set of gene from father, and whole set of mother's gene is not passed on. 

on the other hand, we always make sure new tree we create is exact copy of the mother tree. there is a very good reason for this. we want exact characteristic of the mother tree and only reason why we do this is because mother tree generates very good figs. by doing this, we transmit whatever that is in the mother tree to the new tree. doesn't really matter if this is cutting being rooted, or tissue culture. 

in a single piece of tissue, there can be hundreds, if not thousands, of cells. each cells contain complete genetic material of the mother tree. and if that cell is infected with virus, also the virus. this is asexual reproduction.

now let's think about where the source of our cuttings are coming from. the largest repository of fig scion is.. maybe jon or USDA/UCD. jon flat out says if you are concerned about FMV, don't buy from him. we all know USDA/UCD trees are heavily infected with FMV. some of the trees will not even grow. 

most of trees from oversea is little cleaner, but it's well documented that in turkey and other middle eastern countries are aware of FMV and they are more or less infected. 

the nurseries in this country share the stocks. some will get the scion or tree from other nursery or oversea and propagate them to be new trees. 

one tree can create 100 trees or more.. all with same genetic material and virus, if it just happens to have one. 

now lets add one plus one... let me know if i missed anything. one tree with virus will create 100, if not 1000s of trees with virus. 

now... i have cuttings that were said to be FMV free. i practice very strict clean up when i'm cutting the tree or.. cuttings. but in reality, i'm not actually dipping my pruners in ethanol and torching it after each cut like i should. i do not autoclave the tools after using them. i do clean them with alcohol or bleach wipes or disinfectant wipes. so there is a chance, FMV is from one of the trees i have. 

but so far, i have not seen "clean" cuttings. ever. even the ones that's said to be clean and is clean at the start, will show some symptom of FMV sooner or later. why? only thing i can think of is that they are stressed and they are showing symptoms. of course, there is chance that within 6 months or so of being in my yard has infected them with FMV and there is some sort of bug or something transmitting it to new trees.. but if what we have heard so far is true, that's very unlikely. 

most of my trees by mid season, will now show any FMV. some of the figs that showed FMV last yr are not showing FMV. trees that didn't show FMV previously will show it while cuttings are being rooted.. 

i don't know. i still think every trees have FMV. maybe not 100%, but at least 99.99%. 

but i do agree to disagree. everyone like to believe different things. i believe every fig trees have FMV and i practice as much caution as possible while taking cuttings and so on. but i doubt that will make much difference. 

soundly reasoned, pete.

i just wonder if you have much experience with tissue cultures or cuttings from   old unknown trees?

as far as i can tell these are all clean.

suzie, it's been over 20 yrs ago, and most of my brain cells are dead now.. but i was microbiology major in graduate school focusing on viral infection. 

I have tissue culture trees that are infected and not by me.

Hi bullet08,
Your point is ok for me but (always a but somewhere) the problem is how do you know your tree has FMV ?
Because of a mis-happened or odd looking leaf ? Then your test is screwing your results ... 
A stressed fig tree will make one or more odd leaves - yes I agree.
Does this mean she has FMV ? NO - I can't agree .
Every human with a wound is not carrying the pest disease !
Although humans infected with the pest disease will expose wounds.

So to conclude your trees have FMV you should have a chemical test - like Ph stripes ... I'm not sure if those tests exist ...

My "unknown from the Italian" strain is totally free of FMV .
As for now, I haven't seen a photo of an "Ice crystal" fig tree showing the FMV pattern . ... List could go on .

So now, it all depends on the fig tree breeder . The key is to feel comfortable with your own situation. 

Mjbaransky, if that tree is stressing you, keep her on the opposite side of your yard. Some say that trees affected by FMV will have hard times growing.
So if in a year or two you get sick waiting on her, discard that tree. If the tree is growing well ... keep her .
Now, with that said ... and as you feel uncomfortable with that tree ... Send the tree to fig hell . Regrets are the worst thing !
Now, you're the judge on your own trees, so do as you like .

Last year, I had my hands on a brunswick fig tree. The small thing was in a small pot and had not been properly watered during the summer.
So she had lots of odd leaves some with light squares pattern... To make a long story short, I still don't have Brunswick .
I really was not comfortable with the possibility of taking home that disease ! Just my own choice !

I'm not super knowledgeable about FMV, so my comments are not really geared towards what to do about it. I would just say most members here seem to think it's not a major problem on most plants, or at least something that should just be tolerated. Some disagree, some agree. I'm not trying to start a fight about that.

As a caution or counterpoint, there are many other things that can resemble viral symptoms that are environmental in cause. Fertility is major possibility, especially micronutrients (Zinc, Manganese, and Boron come to mind). Also plant stress, insect damage, and fungal/bacterial infection could cause leaf discoloration. But it could also be FMV, I'm not the expert on that disease and I would suggest sending a sample to your State Agricultural Extension Office to be certain.

As far as the arguments over all trees being infected or not, it is very probable that certain strains are more susceptible or there is an accumulation of viruses that renders some (particularly USDA specimens) unable to grow/fruit properly. I doubt there is enough research into it (feel free to prove me wrong). Just my speculation; I don't want virus infected plants but it seems I don't have much choice for many varieties unless I find it in someone's yard.

Most importantly: Tissue culture CAN produce plants that are virus free through a process called virus indexing. Here's a little info on the process from Nourse Farms: Virus Indexing.  This DOES NOT mean all tissue culture plants are virus free. Plantlets are grown from microgram pieces of bud tissue under specialized aseptic protocol. That is not especially easy because all potential host plants of the virus within a large distance need to be destroyed as well as many other steps. In my mind if a company isn't saying their TC plants are virus free (which would be a great selling point), they may well be infected.

Last of all: any insect with piercing/sucking mouthparts (mites, aphids, etc) can potentially spread viruses. There is a limited window of how long they remain a vector after feeding, but I couldn't say how long. The same applies with tools or hands that have not been cleaned after handling infected material. Heck, in college I learned Tobacco Mosaic Virus can be spread through cigarettes.

Sorry if any of this was preachy, I have a degree in horticulture and some of the talk on viruses is fuzzy and may be misleading. Just wanted some clear information out there.

Theoretically the LSU figs, if obtained from a line that has been kept away from SoCal might be free of FMV if handled carefully by all growers in the line(care with not infecting their trees with contaminated tools), sine the virus is supposedly only transmitted otherwise by a mite that does not live in the rest of the US or Canada. The LSU figs were bred not all that long ago, grown from SEED so that the virus in parents could not be passed on like in cuttings.

I hear claims that cuttings from old established trees, like those brought over by immegrants, that look clean, will be free of FMV but I think that is unlikely. Their FMV is just dormant perhaps due to 'outgrowing' it, perhaps a milder strain, perhaps less strains, perhaps that variety has better genetic ability to deal with FMV. Except for getting costly genetic testing there is no way to say for sure a fig does not have FMV.

Kelby, maybe in CA the State Ag Offices might do testing for FMV but here in PA I think we would be laughed at for the request ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eboone
Kelby, maybe in CA the State Ag Offices might do testing for FMV but here in PA I think we would be laughed at for the request ;)


I've met most of the people in Plant Pathology at PennState, I think they'd like the challenge! At least it's not Plum Pox we'd be asking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ampersand
Quote:
Originally Posted by eboone
Kelby, maybe in CA the State Ag Offices might do testing for FMV but here in PA I think we would be laughed at for the request ;)


I've met most of the people in Plant Pathology at PennState, I think they'd like the challenge! At least it's not Plum Pox we'd be asking about.


Maybe so. I was thinking more on the lines of the state ag dept, who are focused more on commercial agriculture done here.

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