Art and Leon, those most recent figs of yours look a lot more like Black Madeira than your previous photos.  Thanks for sharing!  Art, I now see your post on 8/26 was somewhat similar to tonight's photo, but not quite the same.  Art, is your tree about three years old?

Art and Leon- Thank you for sharing your pictures of your figs, they really do look a lot like black madeira.
Nelson- thank you for the picture of Adriano's tree so we can see what the original source tree looks like. 

Oh, I missed Nelson's post.  Thanks for the photo report, Nelson.

Okay, yesterday morning I still thought that there was a greater than 50% chance that my trees were Genovese Nero.  Even though I had posted photos of my leaves in September 2013 a top authority in this variety (he has requested that I not use his name as he mistakenly things I'm trying to make him look like a fool) said in January 2014 that he knew I had the real thing.  However, this changed recently when I posted photos again.  Rob recently assured me that my cuttings came from the same tree given to him as Genovese Nero.  I have do not have a sound reason for not trusting Rob.  Marcus (71GTO) recently posted photos of leaves from a sucker of his Genovese Nero (from a confirmed reliable source) which are similar to mine.

As previously in this thread, Nelson had reported that the main crop figs of Genovese Nero look like Black Madeira.  Until yesterday, none of the figs posted by anybody looked like Black Madeira (in my opinion).  My current caprified figs sure don't.  Maybe the 2013 non-caprified fruit I posted last year was vaguely similar, but not really.  I would have liked to see ripe fruit from Adriano's trees but even the green figs that Nelson posted seem to have a well defined neck which mine do not.  I would like to see some later season ripe fruits from my tree (formed after wasps were gone) before making any claim of anything with certainty, but I would estimate that the odds are now greater than 90% that what I have been growing and selling are not really Genovese Nero.  I was told by my geneticist friend yesterday that until some good standards were set that having a private lab perform DNA testing by a private lab would be quite costly.  I will be sending out notices to any buyers and trading partners relating to Genovese Nero and make things right.

Update.  Rafed sent me a very rude/harsh email and said for me to go ahead and use his name.  References to the "top authority" in my preceding post were in reference to Rafed.

Rafed previously stated that he was certain I had the real Genovese Nero.  I posted photos of my leaves in post #4 at http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=6512689.  Maybe Rafed didn't see that thread, although he seems to have followed most all threads very closely.  My last supposed Genovese Nero tree was sold in early April of this year.  I gave some away earlier in the year as well.  It is not all about money but I do farm and grow plants for a living, not just as a hobby (and pay for a nursery license and labor, etc.).  In Rafed's email he says I'm seeking desparately to get the real Genovese Nero so that I can replenish what I have sold.  That is simply not the case.  I asked one person for cuttings several days ago so that I could grow it to compare to the trees I have.  I have already offered cash refunds to some people and asked trading partners what they would like for me to make things right.  One buyer has already generously declined a refund as he knew I was selling in good faith.

In regards of some other allegations of me stockpiling or trying to corner the market, that is simply not true.  I would like to be able to offer many plants for sale in sufficient quantities that everyone in the USA can enjoy growing the varieties they want to have without paying an arm and a leg.  For instance, if my three in-ground trees were the real thing as I had expected, I could have probably offered about 100 trees for sale next spring, maybe offering them at $25 or so each.  I believe that would be a good thing for most people except maybe those with very large egos that want exclusive possession of things.  Guess what?  You can't take your fig trees or your money with you when you leave this world.  It is not all about money.

Some people may feel that I was too slow in accepting the "fact" that I did not have the real thing.  Some people jump to conclusions much more quickly than me and are 100% certain about things before they really have sufficient information.  None of my hesitance in changing my mind about my supposed Genovese Nero was about the money but I wanted to have some level of confidence in whatever decision I reached.

Anyways, I wish everyone with the real thing well, including Rafed.  I have more figs that I can eat right now (though the birds are getting some of them), but I still can only imagine the taste of Genovese Nero for now.

Update from the man himself, I wrote

hello there is a topic about your fig on the figs for fun website. 

Thanks Adriano

That cleared that up lol

Unless I've gone crazy (which is entirely possible!), Nelson has said he's lost his.

So do the people who contacted me for trades still want a "Rob's Genovese Nero Not"? 

lol just send me a pm if you change your mind and no longer want it. 

Harvey you are correct I lost my Genovese Nero this winter. New one on the way :)

Hi Nelson:
Do you have photos of the Genovese Nero (AF) that your tree produced? If not do you recall if the figs it made resemble those in #149 and #150? Thanks much!

Some people seem to be very upset that they don't have the real Genovese Nero and others seem to find some reason to get some sort of satisfaction in this supposed misery.  I enjoy figs a very much and would very much like to be growing the real Genovese Nero and expect to be able to do so.  I'm not angry over this or even particularly upset.  I farm for a living and am quite accustomed to things not always going right.  I had to patch a large poly pipe irrigation line today because some coyote again decided it was fun to chew on (not for water, water source is 5' away).  I haven't contacted all of my customers yet but the ones I have don't seem particularly upset.  In fact, they have all been very gracious about it.  Some folks wonder why some others have made such a big deal about this issue.

People have written me (unsolicited) and said that they thought I acted appropriately in trying to get more facts than to judge just based on leaf shape.  I only know of two people who disagree.  By nature, I don't jump to conclusions and I am very deliberate in my thinking process.  I think more folks should try to be more careful in considering facts and in choosing words to express their thoughts.  Speaking negatively of others accomplishes nothing good.

I did write Rob about this a while back (I posted photo from him above) and he wrote me again.  I won't go into the details, but I am thoroughly convinced that Rob did not knowingly send the wrong material to anybody.  I don't know how the mistake happened but it does not really matter.  I feel badly for Rob, more so than any lost sales I may have had, etc.  The money has never been that important as I've been blessed with enough of that, fortunately.

I'm in LOVE with that fig of #139. What is it? Is that the true GN? (can somebody let me know)

I'm upset that this happens as much as it does, someone lied somewhere. But I can't play like it's the first time this has happened.  My Black Italian is a white fig, my malta black is a celeste, my RDB is a celeste, and countless others labeled as something and ended up different. What do you do, stop collecting fig trees? lol yeah imagine that! My fig will be referred to as Rob's Genovese Nero Not "RGNN" until correctly identified I don't think anyone will have a problem with that, it's better than continuing to call it Genovese nero. 

Should I delete my photos above with gn watermarks?

Harvey you have been extremely professional in the whole situation. I admire that.

Harvey leave your photos they are fine and smurf up buddy. I'm already on getting the real one just have to figure some things out. If I get it you & mike got it. 

Thanks, guys.

I can only speculate as to what may have happened but I tend to believe the best in people and don't think anybody lied, most likely.  I believe it was Bass who once told me when his twins Jad and Joy when quite young were caught taking plant stakes (labels) out of pots.  Fortunately, he caught them.  I wonder how many times members have had kids play musical chairs with their plant stakes.  I use both stakes and tags in my pots and that helps avoid mix-ups, btw.  In my orchard I have an electronic map of where everything is planted which is a good thing because in some cases the growing plant ripped off the tag and in some of those cases crazy birds have pulled up my stakes (this happens often, I believe birds are attracted to white).  For folks that prune plants in winter to make them smaller for storage in a garage or shed, I'd imagine many plants look the same.  If plant markers get moved, there is the beginning of a mess.  Just throwing out some ideas.

I don't like this happening and have it happen too often also.  I recently learned I might be on my second fake Italian 258.  I have three fake Ischia Blacks from two sources!  Don't know what's up yet with my Socorro Black (fruit might look right but leaves don't).  I do plan on removing some of these trees this winter to make room for some others that are in pots.  Think of the opportunities! LOL

There are many things that I would do differently if I were to do it all over again.  As many of you know, I farm chestnuts.  I planted my orchard in February 1999 with the only two varieties available (one variety makes up 11% of the trees and serves as a pollenizer for the others).  I experimented with grafting some various varieties but in late 2001 learned of a source for some scions of some great Italian varieties like I had tasted at a conference in Italy. I experimented and grafted some trees to see how they would do.  They grew well so I grafted more trees in 2003 and 2004.  By the fall of 2006 I wish I had never planted the original trees and decided to topwork all of my remaining orchard (excluding pollenizers) to these Italian varieties the following spring.  Some grafts were 15' in the air, above the reach of my ladder, so I was like a monkey climbing the trees.  My production was back up to 2006 by 2011 and now my orchard looks great.  I think I appreciate it more since it took me more work to get where I am today.  There are some oddities that still bug me a little, but I can live with them.

About 15 years ago I was at a conference and the keynote speaker was quite motivating and I have remembered a saying that he shared: "The best things happen to those that make the best of things that happen."

Aaron, that fruit in post 139 is Rob's photo from around 2012, I believe.  I'm just guessing that is before there was a mix-up but am not sure.  Probably a breba.  Oh, brebas....one more thing - I had some concern because my supposed GN did not produce breba this year (were too young last year).  But many of my figs did not produce brebas for some reason.  I almost wonder if the buds for the brebas were damaged by about 45 nights of frost this past year, more than normal.

Thanks Harvey, yes it is a breba. What a gorgeous fig.
Who is Rob, does he still have the same tree?
Can we get some cuttings from that plant of #139 and re-introduce it around and spread the blessing? :)

Aaron, you've missed much of the discussion of this thread.  There is a bit of a mystery as what has happened.  People thought that they got cuttings from that three but it has turned out to be something else due to some mix-up or something.  Honestly, I suggest you avoid the headache and just move on. :)

Very interesting detective work!
So, are there any guesses as to what variety the Genovese Nero Not is?

No.  I thought maybe Black Jack but I've been persuaded to believe otherwise.  So is that RGNNBJN?

I received a small a/l tree from Rob in 2012. It has just come to light that it is not the GN I thought I had purchased. I have been back and forth with Rob about the issue providing pics of
The leaves and fruit. He has offered cuttings but I'm not so sure I want more of the same. However I could grow them out and possibly find my original was a total mistake. BTW the fruit resembles a Thibodeaux and not GN. He may or may not know how the mix up occurred but it is quiet obvious the original tree from Adriano which he got from Rafed went astray.

Daniel, where did the GN cutting I got from you originate?

Harvey,


You know posting this crap is just going to tick our friend off even more, is that your intent?