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'Giant' cuttings

Good point Ong. I've never had a parent tree go awol on me after removing large air layers. But I guess there is a theoretical risk that it can happen. There are two simple precautions you can take to reduce that risk:

1. Remove the layer as close to dormancy as possible.
2. Seal the wound with a suitable purpose-made preparation.

Any other suggestions out there?
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  • KK

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Originally Posted by Ong888
@KK.... I just wonder ,how is your air layer doing ? Are they all root well ?... I got information from my friend that do the extreme air layer like the one you do the fig tree, all end up with the dead mother tree or stagnant mother tree ( after harvesting all the air layers )..... I just wonder is the information I got is true or just bed story. Ong Indonesia Will grow any fig tree that can grow in my country




No, never had that problem. It was a 3rd year RDB, pretty vigorous fig. The pic was taken in early April, all were successful. After I removed them I let it grow for a month and a few days ago I started 5 more on the same plant.


-----Actually it was 8 more

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Sealing the cut parts would be vital to my opinion...
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@ hungryjack

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.........If anything, in a warm and long growing season such as yours,
even more important to get good root development,........


There is actually a school of thought which says you should restrict root development for the best results. I must admit, I have not been a great fan of that theory. But having recently seen the results where I used root restriction (I lined the hole with hardcore) on the one and only occasion in my fig life, I must also admit that I need to revise my former antipathy to this method.
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@ hungryjack

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If I remember correctly, 
there are 33 different ingredients in a Chicken McNugget,


Yeah, and all of them crap. I won't touch 'em with a bargepole, & even then I'd hafta to put that spacesuit on:
http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=151BC31144DF47CE1D85FB664CCC2A65
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@ hungryjack

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I assume you eat  eggs,  beef, pork, chicken, etc.
Do you just ignore the fact these animals all consume soy daily.
They eat the soy, and you eat them.
Remember the saying, you are what you eat.


I'm no purist or food fascist. Maybe you missed my EDIT at #24? My point about unfermented soy is not its hormone content, but the fact that the food itself is estrogenic in its effects on male metabolism. Granted, the effect is likely insignificant if consumption is moderate rather than excessive. Despite that, I still prefer to avoid it generally, but I don't obsess about it. But since you ask:

eggs - yes.
beef - maybe once per month, & then grass-fed only. I live in the UK, and we have that choice over here.
pork - again, maybe once per month, if that.
chicken - maybe once per week, and usually organic.
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@ Aaron - Care to explain the 'squid' reference? Is it an American thing?
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@ Aaron - 

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buhbye JackAss! 


So WWIII did break out despite my best efforts. You know I love you like a brother, but there's no need for personal abuse over a disagreement. You're bigger than that, so please offer the guy a metaphorical handshake and bury the hatchet (preferably not in his skull!) in the interests of peace, love & harmony.

Personally, I value members' knowledge & expertise - isn't that one of the reasons we're all here? That doesn't mean we're always gonna agree on every subject under the Sun. What a boring world that would be, right?
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Originally Posted by loquat1

2. Seal the wound with a suitable purpose-made preparation.

Any other suggestions out there?



Research has show that its better to leave the tree to heal its own wound,
than applying a tree sealant.
My personal experience tells me the same with Fig trees.
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Originally Posted by loquat1
@ Aaron - Care to explain the 'squid' reference? Is it an American thing?
Oh.. it's just that our dear Jack has a habit of biting on a raw squid...and he's proud of it too... just not my thang... you know what I mean. Salmonella...etc... may somehow affect the brain function...you never know.
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I never have sealed a tree, I was taught by arborists that it is a bad thing to do, especially with the tree sealer products, sometimes they allow too much moisture to stay inside the wound and make it rot, it is better to cut it on a slant so that moisture cannot pool on it in my experience.  The one idea that belleclaire suggested of putting granular limestone on the wound may not be bad, never tried it but it wouldn't stay there forever either so maybe that would work well but never tried it.
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I use only melted paraffin , it's easily overgrown, new shoots penetrate it and even callusing gently expends the wax and exfoliates it.  people use Bees wax too...light warming will melt them both easily. I seal both ends of my cuttings with it too, never had a rot on cut ends.It helps it to callus fast as well. My experience with Paraffin has been great so far.
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@ hjack

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Research has show that its better to leave the tree to heal its own wound,
than applying a tree sealant.
My personal experience tells me the same with Fig trees.


Ordinarily, I would agree. I have never sealed, and never 'murdered' the parent as a result. Now that could be just pure luck, but it could also be coz to date I have only removed lateral branches from the main stem. But what if removal of an air layer involves cutting across the primary trunk, as in the case of my 7' project?

I'm on new ground here, & I'm not at all sure the parent tree is guaranteed to survive that kinda trauma. In that specific situation, I have to wonder if sealing the wound might turn out to be a wise precaution. 
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@ FigaroNewton

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HJacks earlier mention of sinking tomato plants deep into the soil at planting has brought me to a question. I received a black mission a few weeks ago that is maybe 10 inches tall but with nary a leaf from the dirt up about 8 inches. When it comes time to up-pot can I treat it the same as a tomato plant and bury it really deep, and will that act to faster improve the thickness of the stem? it is sort of leggy at this point. I'm sure the answer could be pulled out of this thread, but it went all over the place and I couldn't keep up.


Yeah, sorry about that. We did go off at a few tangents. This forum is just like a box of chocolates............
Anyway, to your question. In my limited experience, that should also work. There is an old Greek propagation technique that involves burying the entire cutting in PM. That's analogous to your idea, so I'd say it's worth a try. 

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I had a 6 foot Panache and airlayered the top half off.  They're both growing like crazy.  I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.
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Originally Posted by loquat1
. But what if removal of an air layer involves cutting across the primary trunk, as in the case of my 7' project?

I'm on new ground here, & I'm not at all sure the parent tree is guaranteed to survive that kinda trauma. In that specific situation, I have to wonder if sealing the wound might turn out to be a wise precaution. 


Consider the trauma caused to tree when an arborist  "tops a tree",
multiple large cuts on a tree, rarely if ever wound sealant is applied.

If you want to be a bit cautious,
then duct tape 4 dowels/sticks to the trunk so they extend
above the cut, cover with a bucket to keep the rain and dirt off.
Can wrap the open part of the bucket with Remey cloth or insect screening material
to keep the bugs out.   Week or two later, remove it all.

I would do what YOU feel most comfortable with.
If you don't seal and something happens, you will blame it on not sealing.
If you do seal and something happens, the blame will fall on something other than the sealing.

Sort of like giving a friend a stock tip,
if they make money on it,  they take the credit, they were the smart one,
if they loose money on it,   I get  the blame.
No win situation   :-)

Best of luck with the pending surgery,
I'm sure it will work out well.

 
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Hi loquat1,
On topic restricting roots:

I have an ongoing setup with the eighty liters trashcans. Originally to protect against underground rodents and to try growing figs out of full clay dirt and compost instead.
So basically, I'm restricting the compost in an area, but the figtree being in the compost ... The roots of the figtree are restricted as well .
So far, the tree expose shorter inter nodal distance, which is great and
they have a tendency to stay shorter in height.
I'm in zone7, I can't let my trees grow too high or they'll get severely winter pruned ...

The big drawback being that I need to water more as the leaves of the trees have the tendency to protect the dirt from the rain and the surrounding
water can't be pumped inside by the roots because the roots are restricted ...
That test is still in progress ...

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@ Bob

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I had a 6 foot Panache and airlayered the top half off.  They're both growing like crazy.  I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.


That's encouraging, & if it translates to a 12'+ tree as well, then I should be OK, especially if I adopt hjack's suggestion about protecting the wound..

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Originally Posted by loquat1
@ FigaroNewton

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Yeah, sorry about that. We did go off at a few tangents. This forum is just like a box of chocolates............
Anyway, to your question. In my limited experience, that should also work. There is an old Greek propagation technique that involves burying the entire cutting in PM. That's analogous to your idea, so I'd say it's worth a try. 



Thank-you Loquat, I'll bury all of my root balls a bit deeper at each up-pot/repot. =)




regards, 
bill o.
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Yes Bill you can bury the black mission deeper and the stem will grow roots
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  • Avatar / Picture
  • KK

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Originally Posted by KK
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Originally Posted by loquat1
Emboldened by my success with supersize air-layers (ahem), I'm currently experimenting with cuttings that are also on the ambitious side of hubris. Ambitious in the sense that I'm putting 20-22" straight into pm, with about 6-8" above pm level.

Is the general consensus here that most (if not all) of the foliage should be removed? Leave just the smallest leaf + shoot, or no leaves at all? 



I go small and try to leave as many leaves as possible. After removing them I put them in the shower for a day or 2 and regularly spritz the walls. They all took.

gggg 004.jpg 





26 days later she gave me 8 more 9oz air layers, 17 in 3 months


The ones with lots of leaves moisturizing in the shower


al1.jpg 

al2.jpg 

Mother is resting after octuplets
al3.jpg 


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Thanks for the update kk. Mine are still in the shower, bottles removed, & one 'beheaded' coz of fungal growth, which came as a bit of a surprise. The others seem to be just fine, so still hoping for at least 85% success rate.

Not sure about leaving so many leaves on tho. Common sense tells me a cutting won't support that amount on top, so still a bit skeptical. More than happy to be proved wrong on that score.
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  • Avatar / Picture
  • KK

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Originally Posted by loquat1
Thanks for the update kk. Mine are still in the shower, bottles removed, & one 'beheaded' coz of fungal growth, which came as a bit of a surprise. The others seem to be just fine, so still hoping for at least 85% success rate.

Not sure about leaving so many leaves on tho. Common sense tells me a cutting won't support that amount on top, so still a bit skeptical. More than happy to be proved wrong on that score.


I've already pruned them by half, I bet they make it



ph.jpg

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KK, that's like printing money.  :)
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My dad got arrested for making big money....................0.05mm too big.
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