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Give people what they want?

Last year I did a poll at the farmers market of what fig varieties people liked.  About 350 people said black mission, 50 said brown turkey and 1 said celeste.  So based on that I was planning on growing 3,500 black mission fig trees, 500 brown turkey and 10 celeste trees.  But reading about all of the great tasting varieties on this forum is making me question if people actually want these varieties, or if they are just the ones they know?

And now I am also questioning the authenticity of the varieties that I am propagating the black mission and brown turkey figs from.  The black mission have deep lobed leaves and the brown turkeys are delicious, so as john said before if your brown turkeys are delicious they are probably something else. :)


My new plan was to grow the figs in high density, inside greenhouses, in sip pots and espaliered for easy fruit picking.  And switch to lower amounts of better tasting varieties.  Something like this

Black madeira #200
Ronde de Bordeaux #200
Violet de Bordeaux #200
Valle negra #200
JH Adriatic #200
Cole de dame blank #200
Maltese falcoln #200
Maltese beauty #200
Italian 258 #200
Italian 395 #200
MBVS #200

I think that only a small percent of people love the taste of figs and its because all they tasted is half ripe brown turkeys, kadota, and black mission.  I think maybe if I offer some better tasting figs I can get the 90% of people who do like figs very much start to like or even love them. :)

Only problem I am seeing now is I've see most of all those varieties on ebay but as plants only, and I can't get soil shipped to Hawaii. I am going to put the names with the price per cutting I would pay if that is ok?


Black madeira ($20)
Ronde de Bordeaux ($10)
Violet de Bordeaux (waiting might have 100 of them already growing)
Valle negra ($20)
JH Adriatic ($15)
Cole de dame blank ($20)
Maltese falcoln ($40)
Maltese beauty ($40)
Italian 258 ($40)
Italian 395 ($40)
MBVS ($10)

I am also willing to trade 5v1 anything on my have list, so for 1 Italian 258 cutting,  I trade back $40 and 1 conandria, 1 desert king, 1 panache, 1 peter's honey and 1 Italian honey.  And I will pay shipping both ways.

And a limited lifetime replacement guarantee, if you sent 2 black madeira cuttings and you only have 1 tree and it dies from winter cold, weed wacker accident, meteor strike, ect.   I will send you 2 cuttings back, up to 3 times over a lifetime. 

If you only sell cuttings on ebay just pm me that they are up there.  I got ebay and paypal account also.


Thanks

 







Sid, sounds like quite the under taking. I wish well on your quest. You'll find cuttings come the northern hemisphere fall, not much until then. 

Thats a very impressive undertaking. 2200 trees in greenhouses. What is that, like 10 acres of greenhouses?
Since this is such a large undertaking you might want to talk to Ken Love. http://www.hawaiifruit.net/    He's done a lot of research on Hi already and has been at it awhile. You can probably source some of the cutting you are looking for from him as well when the season ends there. I think he's over in Captain Cook or Kona but it would surely be worth a visit to see and talk with him about figs. Your climates are obviously different. Much drier over there than in Hilo. He did do research and posted the results of which varieties did well there and which ones didnt. There were several areas tested as well, not just CC.

Your list has some of the best berry flavors: Bordeaux, Dark, Adriatic as well as some unique flavors but you’re missing the figs in the intense Sugar and Honey categories. These are Celeste (Improved), Hollier, Barada and Qalaat Al Maadiq. Children have a higher metabolism and like sweeter fruit, where as older people have a slower metabolism and like fruit that is not quite as sweet but has more uniqueness and complexity. Other factors to consider besides fruit flavor and sweetness are richness, juiciness, and figgyness flavors. You’ve probable read this already: Fig Flavor Categories, and taste scale... 

 Of course, it’s been posted a million times that tastes are completely subjective and fig flavor will vary a lot depending on too many things to mention. Until you grow them and taste them yourself, picking each fig at their peak degree of ripeness, speculation is almost meaningless. HOWEVER…it’s fun to speculate anyway.

 The more people you can appeal to, the better are your chances of success, since different people like different things. Getting them to accept new fruit tastes and textures will involve teaching/marketing over time and a resulting slow learning curve. You will have to do a lot of advertising and give taste testing sessions to sell your figs to a negative biased public, but it has a lot of potential if you’re patient and resilient. Here I’ve seen local people promote heirloom tomatoes over the last twenty years until finally it’s beginning to be a viable market. Heirloom tomatoes simply taste better and sell themselves once people’s taste buds are educated and they have the disposable income to buy them. This has worked with the wine market as well.

Most people “eat” with their eyes at first and don’t notice the taste. Colorful figs like Panache, or bright colored red (Lebanese Red) or large yellow fruit (LSU Gold) would be more popular with them. Most of the commercial studies of fig marketability like Condit and the Hawaii studies focus on this element and limit the studies to easily available varieties with thick skins for shipping. They’re of limited value if you want exquisite flavor with your figs that will give them a meaningful edge over the other fruit in the market. http://www.hawaiifruit.net/index-figs.html

 Some people find the seedy texture of figs distasteful. Seedless “jelly” figs like Mary Lane Seedless might appeal to them, at least at first until they begin to accept the flavor seed crunch can add to a fig’s taste.  

 Some of the trees you’ve chosen are “prima donna” varieties that are hard to grow and are not very productive, like Black Madiera. Grafting them on vigorous rootstock perhaps has the potential for improved growth and production. How good are you at grafting figs?

 Best of luck with your project. With the changing global environment and scarcity of water, figs would be a great “green” alternative to the more conventional fruits in the grocery store or farmer’s market. It’s wonderful to see more figs available -even if they cost $10 a basket. But the flavor had better pack a competitive punch, or people will stop buying them. 

Start smaller and test the varieties under the conditions that they will be grown. Until you grow them yourself you won't know. Looks like you've picked out the most expensive and "hot" varieties without knowing how they'll do under your conditions. Sounds like a good way to lose money. Some old standards will do better than these hot shots. But you won't know until you test them and gather others opinions about the resulting fruit.

You've also got to consider yield, spoilage, season of ripening, etc, etc.

The ones I listed is just an example of one area I am going to plant.  My full list of figs to trial i've made over the last year is much longer.

Figs to trial

Abba
Abruzzi
Angelo's Dark
Bari
Black Bethlehem
Danny's Delight
Dark Portuguese
Dominick's
Don Fortissi Black
Ginoso
Gino's Black
Gm #11 (Sicilian Dark)
Hardy Cleveland
Hardy Hartford
Hardy Pittsburgh
Jersey Fig
Keddie
Macool
Martini
Mt Etna (unknown) (Mongibello)
New Jersey Red
Owensboro
Pane e Vino Dark
Rosetta
Roundhill
Salem Dark
Sal's EL/GS
San donato (Calabria)
St Rita
Takoma Violet

LSU purple
LSU Gold
Native de argentine
Rattlesnake island
Raspberry latte
Sierra
Kathleen's black
Verte
Bmad 5
UCR 184-15
187-25
Brooklyn white bs
Excel
Panachee
Osborne prolific
Hanc Mathies English brown turkey
La Radek's English brown turkey
Olympian
Ishia Black
Peter's honey
Celeste (cuttings from someone's family tree from Louisiana)
Flanders
Desert King
Alma


I had lots more but this is my narrowed down list.  Was going to do a small trial of 10 of each in 10 gallon pots outdoors and see how they do.  But kind of just for back up just incase the higher dollar prima dona figs you called them, :)  don't work out, I can fall back on these.  :)

The 1st list I think is just Mt etna types I was going to grow them all side by side in rows for fun to see how different they are. :0  Then pick to 5 best tasting, producing, spoil resistance, ect. 

Worst case scenario if I get a bunch of the high dollar figs growing, but they don't do well in my area,  I can use them as great trade fodder to get the other more common tried and true varieties.


As you can see I can contracted OCFCD (obsessive compulsive fig cultivation disorder) I don't think there is a cure. :)  Except grow more figs.

If it works out cool, if not I can use the pots and greenhouses to grow tomatoes or peppers ;0



Sid



Does anyone else find this thread strange?

<Does anyone else find this thread strange?>

Not really,where else would you find these varieties in bulk?

Outdoors will be difficult and far from ideal for figs in that climate. 195 inches rain per yr and 77/55F temperatures are a world away from ideal or native fig range. Hundreds of fruits grow in that area and you'd have to compete in the market place with them all. A greenhouse would help by increasing heat and sheltering from rain to some extent. I say some because if allowed the plants will soon have roots outside. Plus a greenhouse quadruples the growing expense. My greenhouse fruit costs 5-10 dollars per pound to produce with free labor.

What varieties have you grown and tasted in that climate? Are you sure there aren't more viable fruits? Do you have greenhouse experience?

Hi,
@dkirtexas: +1 .
But, I think that the forum member won the lottery and is looking to spend some extra cash .
There is no law against that ... It seems that your laws are even encouraging that . Take risks and win ... and some times lose .
Some do gamble on hazard games, so why not on figs ?
Could be fun to do and to watch ! Keep us posted !

In 3+ years of selling fig trees at farmer's mkts, flea mkts, festivals, and in my back yard I have had exactly 3 people (I keep a book on requests) ask for a specific fig, a BT, a "Sugar fig"(Celeste), and a LSU Gold.  In all other cases, people do not know there are other cultivars, when I ask what kind of fig they are looking for, I get "there are different kinds".  I always ask the question as an "ice breaker" to encourage conversation.  I have Black Missions for sale, and have never had anyone that knew what is was.  I do think that in California, a lot of people would know what a Black Mission is and probably others as well.  If I ask what kind of fig do they like, I get "Preserves" or "Strawberry/Fig jam" as the answer.




Perhaps Harvey, Bass, Jon, Herman2, Marius, George etc can help you in your venture. Trading with less known
collecters can be painful in the sense you may not get the real variant desired. Happened to a well known collecter
where 3 to 4 years later he realized he did not get the real variants.

Have you thought of adding some yummie LSU variants like O'Rourke, Tiger, Champagne and Improved Celeste.
These variants have been consistently reliable for me except Improved Celeste(affected by winter die-back).

I think the fact that few even know about figs is because they arent readily available for the most part. They dont ship well so stores rarely carry them. Farmers markets maybe sometimes you will see them.

That being said, it does create a great opportunity for those who want to enter the market. Its going to take some education of consumers but once they get to try different varieties of perfectly ripened figs they will be hooked.

I agree about the climate issues in the hilo area. 2200 trees may out produce demand in the area as well. Its also a lot of work to maintain that many trees. good luck with the project and post pictures as you progress. I am sure we would all love to see it happen.

If i was a comecial grower i would think for main season : brown turkey variant,
Some kadota's and thats it.

For the brebas find out about Tena/ nazrati.

Late variety maybe black madeira? ( dont have it)

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