I don't think ebay would put a stop to any illegal auctions if the sale doesn't affect them. They get their money and they are happy whether anyone gets in trouble or not. Even the knock off designers.....there is a warning and then you can go ahead and post the knock off.
I have reported items that were obvious knock offs several times and they are never taken down, I watched and waited. Some sold for good money. It's not good but I don't believe there is anything anyone can do about it. Buyer beware was never so true.

The rules are the rules.
We have an importer, his name is Jon, he has a nursery named Encanto Farms Nursery.  He has been through this.  It is not the certificates, it is not the licenses, it is all that, PLUS the quarantine.  How much space do you have to set up a quarantine? does anyone here other than Jon know how to properly quarantine plants or plant materials?  And last but not least, why bother? there plenty of great figs already on this side of Customs/USDA.  Oh BTW, you probably already have many of these figs that are named "Aunt Maria's Mission Brown Black Madeira Unknown" brought over by Uncle Giuseppe in 1856 or some one like him at a later date.

When you see the Everglades taken over by Malelucca or Brazilian Pepper which has been proven to be almost impossible to eradicate you might think twice about breaking these rules.

I know this may be cause for some differing opinions but I am not trying to start anything and will not respond to those differing opinions,

Just saying!!

Danny,

Your points are valid in the way you have presented the information. The only area I can see where we as a group would benefit is the establishment of a East Coast operation.

This is not something that is as easy as establishing a new orchard in someones back yard. To do something like this is going to take planning and site surveillance to ensure there is plenty of time available in case of ecological changes. I know of one orchard that is in the family through marriage will be gone in roughly 150 years from sea water rise combined with erosion. 


Jon,

This is where I would start asking you questions on the information concerning the requirements of quarantining. What equipment and space is needed to meet USDA standards. For when starting at the empty land this is something that can be planned for and used in variety establishment and development. 

Danny, it is not difficult to meet the quarantine requirements.  I have an approved quarantine location, I think it's required to be 3 meters away from other plants of the same species (I have it further away than that).  The hardest part is getting a seller willing to get the phyto and then having the patience to wait out the quarantine period.

I agree, Danny.  It is far better to follow the rules than to risk bringing something into this country that will harm our ecosystem.  Just look at the pythons in FL or the nutria rats in LA or the Kudzu choking out all other plant forms in GA and many other southern states.  It's just not worth it.  Sometimes when buying on ebay, we just don't stop to think about where these plants are coming from and whether or not they are certified.  We all, me included, should be a little more careful before bidding on such things.  =)  

Ebay just sent me a coupon for $37.00 the price of the cuttings I got from Portugal. I called and talked to  a Lady at Ebay and told her the situation  and she kindly said "let me talk to my Boss" and came back to the phone in about 3 minutes and said " Would a $37.00 coupon on Ebay satisfy you" and I said yes.....Regardless, of Ebay letting me buy Unlawful Items,  I think that was pretty cool of them to reimburse me, without any Paperwork, just my word..

Frank

Ebay and their 'good-pal' paypal; together, they charge a hefty ~15% in fees off any sale.
That is good business....

Frank, great news.  Really glad they took care of you.  Anything less that that would make them a very poor business.

I suspect eBay has a lot of powerful lobbyists in DC that will make sure the sales go on unregulated.

We have the same regulations in Canada, for the same beetle, they destroyed several trees I ordered from baud because they were 1-3 mm above the allowed 10 mm diametre, the reason for the 10 mm diametre restriction is because the eggs of the beetle are not found in 10 mm diametre or less branches.  I got all the proper paper work from the Candian gov't and from baud, we don't require qaurentine for this but it isn't cheap either, he wont ship without the proper paperwork though.  I was angry first then I read up on the beetle and we already have the ash borer and birch borer so I calmed down and realized it was for the best, these trees all pretty much have a trunk now 1 inch in diametre so they grew very well this year and should produce a healthy crop next year so I am happy.  Finding similar nurseries in europe is proving difficult and Baud is very open, up front and professional, so anyone thinking to go through all the trouble of paper work and if needed quarentine, you won't be disappointed with his trees.

This is slightly off topic, but I think many of the destructive invasive species mentioned in this thread were actually imported legally. The US government paid farmers to plant Kudzu. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers planted Medaleuca in Florida for erosion control.

The only thing that I think eBay should do differently is to make buyers of regulated items more aware of the laws.  I don't think eBay should be held responsible for the transactions any more than Jon should be for folks that make deals here through PMs, etc.  Even when we are given disclosures we rarely read them (I know I haven't read a software license agreement for over 20 years).  I think USDA/APHIS is being pretty reasonable about this and not threatening criminal charges or fines, but I question how effective it is when they wait months after the transaction was made.

Chris,

I do not know the current quarantine requirements. They have to be, I think, 100 feet (might be50') from other fig trees, which is not doable on small city lots if you or your neighbor has a fig tree. When I had my space inspected and approved several years ago it was sufficient distance, but don't remember the exact requirement. The State Ag person or the County Ag person will come out and inspect you quarantine area prior to the approval and issuance of the permit. They had to come and re-verify everything when I renewed a couple years ago. There was no requirement for any kind of structure, but you will probably need some sort of greenhouse to root the cuttings in.

They were quarantined for a minimum of 2 years, were inspected annually, and, in my case, it too about 2-1/2 years because they arrived in February, so two years latere they were in a dormant mode. The final inspection has to be done when they are leafed out, so it was May before they could do the final inspection. If I remember correctly, a CDFA (CA Dept Food and Agriculture) person did the final inspection, filed the results with the County Ah Dept, which forwards it to the State Dept, which forwards it to the USDA for final disposition.

Until you receive a final release, they are NOT you cuttings or plants. They are the property of the USDA, which "subcontracts" out their care to you. After final release, then they are your property. As long as they are the property of the USDA, you cannot take the plants or cuttings out of the quarantine area, and you must keep any plant material which dies, for the inspector. The fact that all plant material that is imported is technically the property of the USDA is, I suspect, the reason that they can come and take possession of it from your property. Your are essentially in illegal possession of their property.

Originally, I just had to list the countries that I expected to get cuttings from, and put a overall quantity that was sufficient to cover what I might, but not you have to list a quantity for each country and if you actually end up importing more, then you have to have the permit modified prior to shipment.

Information on the beetles is here: Federal Order  There is a more recent update, in 2011, but couldn't find the location., and if you check the link below, there is a 2013 update, as well.

Here is the USDA Guidelines for importing plant material. See Table 2-7, 2-10, 2-11 If I am reading Table 2-10 correctly, the new rules are no ficus from Europe. Following this document will give you a headache.

When I set up my quarantine area for pomegranates it was only something like 3 meters.  I haven't imported figs but don't know why it would be different.  Yes, it could be rented land.  They would want the plants in pots and they cannot be propagated until released.

I've mentioned before that I was involved (instigator) of a chestnut import project.  In that case, the state required a 5 year quarantine (due to oak wilt disease) while the Feds only required 3 years (chestnut blight concern).  Due to the serious thread of these diseases, the trees were required to be grown in greenhouses for those 5 years.  This project was handled by Plant Material Services which has it's offices right across the street from the USDA NCGR on UC Davis property.  They charged $1,000 per accession but it would probably be more today.  They would probably be willing to do figs for a similar arrangement but there is no need for that really.  In the cases of chestnuts, they are a prohibited item and can only be imported by such an agency or quasi-government entity which is not the case for figs.

Cuttings/plants from overseas nurseries
are not free.
Neither is the international shipping,
domestic handling from the fed facility,
containers, soil, nutrients, water, stakes,
maintenance, weed control, pruning..........
:-)

Alan,

The idea of using a group effort is one means to reduce the individual cost, but someone is still responsible of housing and care. 

Feds are looking for these two pests:

A. Chinenis
A. Glabripennis

Countries with these bugs:

Afghanistan
China
Croatia
European Union
Indonesia
Japan
Korea
Madagascar
Myanmar
Philippines
Taiwan
Vietnam

European Union

•  Austria
•  Belgium
•  Bulgaria
•  Croatia
•  Cyprus
•  Czech Republic
•  Denmark
•  Estonia
•  Finland
•  France
•  Germany
•  Greece
•  Hungary
•  Ireland
•  Italy
•  Latvia
•  Lithuania
•  Luxembourg
•  Malta
•  Netherlands
•  Poland
•  Portugal
•  Romania
•  Slovakia
•  Slovenia
•  Spain
•  Sweden
•  United Kingdom

 
Basically, all your favorite fig countries  :-)

The pests are not on the surface,
but in the wood.
Treatment with bleach or other methods does not kill them.
Only a trained individual can spot these pests.

Casual inspection by a hobbyist  is ineffective and useless.

Violating the Plant Protection Act/Permits,
you are liable for civil penalties of  $250,000 per violation
and up to double the gross monetary loss caused by those actions.

All spelled out nicely in the permits :-)

The agents came to my house this morning for the Madeira cuttings. They were extremely polite. I pulled my plants out of the pots and into the black garbage bag they went. They briefly explained the rules and understood it was a mistake on my side. I had purchased cuttings from China and Turkey which the agents were not asking for but I gave them up when I knew I had broken the rules. They asked for the names of the sellers, which I provided. I signed a document and they were off. I will be sticking to good ole USA cuttings from now on.

In all, I gave 11 Madeira cuttings, 1 China cutting and 1 Turkey cutting. These were the ones that survived the rooting process. There were two or three that i thought were struggling, that were actually dead when I pulled them from the pots. They took the dead cuttings also. The rest were thriving and it broke my heart to pull them but lesson learned. They let me keep the pots and soil but were willing to take them also if I did not want them.

I did not understand the permit rules correctly. That and having fig fever and trying to amass a superior fig quickly. My enthusiasm has been tempered and I am better for it. I have seen pictures of great old oaks and elms being grinded to sawdust and that being incinerated. Forfeiting my plants seems to pale in comparison to the potential destruction caused. I completely accept my fate.


I might add a suggestion. Newbies (like me) tend to have a lot of enthusiasm and try to get as many figs as quickly as possible. Possibly adding a "highlighted or easily recognizable" quick blurb or link about the downside to importing figs on the "Start Here: The Basics, FAQ, Recommendations ...." tab in the forum could potentially help. This subject seems to get discussed repeatedly but new members seem to catch this too late. Just a suggestion and not an excuse for me not doing my due diligence.

"I had 4 Madeira cuttings"

These have been in the US for some time now. There are several sources including the UCD where one can get the cuttings for free or one can find a private grower and obtain cuttings at a small fee. 

TO date the only real problem I have had in locating a fig is the Rouge de Bordeaux out of France. I am sure they are already here in the states for it is just a matter of time before I run across them. Most of the other French figs from the region are here already and many known sources can be found on the forum. 

I agree we all need to be aware of the short comings that are found within the eBay system and research more before clicking on that buy it now button. Jon is a wealth of information as her has done the required work to import and go through the quarantine process. This is not something one is going to do for a common fig that is just hard to come by in the US. One will be doing this for new varieties that have been domestically bred and selected through a breeding program or a research team from a university collecting genetic samples.