been reading the forum for awhile and noticed the following 3 figs are consider very good but hard to root/grow.

black madeira
black ischia
calvert

from what i read, BM is hard to root, but once rooted it really shouldn't have too much issue as long as it's kept inside until the outside temp is above 40 degrees F.

BI seems to be hard to root and also hard to grow. read one member had sucker that is growing well, but had to cut down to just above root from cold damage.

calvert, not read too much about it other than it will not do too well outside of cal.

is there any other figs that is hard to work with? i have BM coming from one of the forum members, and i have ordered BI and calvert from uc davis (no confirmation so i'm not sure if i'm getting BI and/or calvert).

from reading the forum, there are things i want to try to see if they will grow here. i'm sure it's just a waste of time since members who has been growing figs much longer than i have are having hard time. but it might kill some time next year.

pete

Pete, I will give you my experiences with those cuttings.  I have successfully rooted all 3.  Others will have different results than me.

BM - not difficult to root, just took longer to root.
BI - not difficult to root
Calvert -  not difficult to root

Both BM and Calvert need a long summer season, we have that here in the Carolinas. :)  My source for BI like most is UCD.  Their tree is infested with the mosaic virus but is is growing well there.  So, for BI, it really depends on the cuttings.  My cuttings rooted just like the past 2 years but later died after a few leaves.  This year, I got 2 that rooted fine and they LOOK strong but now comes the tough part.  In the past 2 years, I did not have much root mass with I repotted my BI cuttings.  THis year, I did 2 things different.  1.  I used peat pots to root them.  2.  I used self watering pots. 

My 2 BI have been in the shade every since they rooted and leafed out and guess what, some of the leaves look like they are sun burned even though they never had sunlight.  GO FIGURE!  But if they don't make it, at least I have my in ground Smith.  I like this tree and so happy to see it grow and produce some awesome figs! 

dennis,

when you used peat pot method (i assume this is same as dan's post from few weeks ago), did you do baggie thing to get root initial, or did you put the cuttings directly into the soil mix?

depends on number of cuttings i get, i might try using rooting hormone gel, and heating pad.

pete

BI and BM both rooted easily for me.  They're both really slow growers, heavily infected with FMV (both from UCD).

Calvert from UCD was a waste of time.  None rooted.  I don't know if the wood was dry or what.  Someone I sent my extra cuttings to had some success (I'm jealous).  I sort of wanted one to work out.  I've always wanted to try a green fig with dark ruby interior.

jason,

what method did you use to root BM, and BI?

pete

EDIT: 

Jon's "new baggie" method used for BI and Calvert.
The old "improved baggie" method used for BM and Preto.

Jason:Yes Calvert is a unique fig,with a very special dark interior like no other.
Mine does not want to grow at all,5years old and under one foot,but I will have a few fruits ,getting ripe this year.
It has 3 small fruits on it as of now.
I had another one before this one and it died,from nematode in the pot.
But while alive it gave me 2 ripe fruits,with a very strong strawberry flavor,and excellent taste.
Too bad it is so hard to grow this one,on the east coast.
People in California.Texas, and south west and deep south should try to grow Calvert.
I have a hunch ,there are places that Calvert will grow much better than in my climate.

Sorry guys, I've been out picking figs and preping pics to display. 

Pete, I don't use the baggie method.  I have used Jon's alternate bag method and it works great.  However, I love using Dan's peat pot method.  That method works great for me.  Calvert is a slow grower.  I killed mine source tree over the winter but my new cuttings took and are doing fine.  Dennis

Only experience I have is with Black Madeira and the experience was not good. Pretty sure I would have had some success if I was able to provide bottom heat.    

Ah, Barry, you just reminded me of something.

I mentioned this before but I had two perfectly healthy CDDN and two NDC cuttings rooting well in the garage till I moved them outside and almost over night things went downhill and now they been long gone.

Same thing happened to another rare fig I got from someone and it was  rooting well outside next to the shed under a shade and I moved it and it too went downhill.

Often we see, hear and write about how well the cuttings are doing and then things take a turn to the worse.

I am beginning to wonder if the problem has been there right in front of our eyes but just never took notice. It seems the cuttings take root and break bud and start to leaf out and grow their branches but as soon as we re-pot them or move them that's when they turn the other way and die.

Could it be that they don't like to be moved? At all?
Let's take a moment and think about this folks. How often have you had a perfectly looking cutting growing for you and looked promising and thought O.K., this is time to re-pot it or move it to the next stage and that' when they do the backward flip?

It seems to me part of it is from moving it and the other part is re-potting at a young and tender age.

What is your thought?

I have had the most luck keeping things in the shade after any up-pot for at least a couple of weeks, if not a couple of months.  The trees I kept in mostly shade last year showed the least growth during that year, but they were also the trees that were most stable with least failure, and they're also far surpassing others for growth and stability this year.

I'm normally rooting indoors during the cold, so after up-potting, they're kept indoors for many weeks before going outside into full shade when outdoor temps are close to the same as indoor temps.  I rarely lose a cutting if it actually makes it to full shade outside.  I stopped putting things anywhere that they'll get more than a half hour of direct sunlight until they are absolutely well rooted and have been able to produce some green wood and completely harden it off.  Sometimes that can take weeks, sometimes months.

I'm convinced you can't safely take anything out of the shade if it is shorter than 12" tall and has more than 4" of green softwood.

Rafed, I thought I had my CDDN this season. I dare not even repot but sat it above a freshly made pot of well draining soil. Very soon the leaves went limp & it was gone. Other hard to root varieties for me are Zingarella & LSU Everbearing. Four other variants I attempted to root for the 1st time this season with over 3 cuttings each are Hunt, Alpengarten, Bellone & LSU Yellow. None made it. Need to trial them this season once more.

The easiest to root this season have been Lyndhurst White, Nero600m, Rocco and Moscatel Preto.

I only had one cutting of Black Maderia and it is growing out of it's Virus with nice big healthy leaves, I just keep pumping the fertilizer to it and giving it lots of root space.  I just hope I can get it to survive the winter, I don't t think I will let it go dormant until next year and just keep it under light over the winter.

I've had great success on leaving my cuttings under the oak trees which are getting filtered sun all day long.  I have been up potting them from cups to pots putting them right back where they were with no ill effect.

When I get ready to repot I make sure the soil/potting mix is dry but not enough that the fig shows it.  Usually this was my indicator that it was time to water.  Because I am using potting mix I do believe that the roots don't get disturbed as much when transplanting as they would if I had used a very loose perlite mixture.

The cuttings I have found to be the most difficult to root are black madeira & Hunt.

I Have had no luck with Black Madeira thats why I bought one easier this way. Hunt I had them in cups for 6 months by then 5 had dried out completely and were discarded one cutting still looked like it was a bit green and kept it. Eventually I just bought a hunt plant wich died 4 weeks after arrival funny enough that one cuttings I kept eventually rooted and now I have an 8 Inch tall hunt plant. Oh ya and these cuttings were put in cups before christmas.

Col de dame noir was easy to root but very tricky to keep alive after the 1st transfer lost 4 out of 5 cuttings the remaining cuttings is not doing too good but still alive for the time being hope it pulls through with this heat wave we are having.

I have posted the details of an almost fool proof method (the Peat Pot Method) before.  It is  worth repeating again and again since it works EXCEPTIONALLY well. You guys WILL NOT lose your precious newly rooted twigs to up potting if you follow this very simple technique that I have developed.

Very simple..........when your cuttings show tiny root initials, plant them inside of a 3 inch peat pot that is inside of a 16 ounce plastic cup. Once you see roots growing through the peat pot walls......remove that peat pot and plant it in your gallon container. This technique allows you to not disturb the roots. There are other advantages to using the Peat Pot Method.....but, the biggest advantage is obvious......no root disturbance during transplanting. I GUARANTEE that if you use my method.....you will not lose many cuttings. Don't let the simplicity of the method fool you. Give it a try.........

Here's another BIG tip if you are not using the Peat Pot Method. After you move your cuttings from rooting cups to gallon containers.....put them inside of a large plastic bin for a couple of days. Make sure that when you up pot  your cuttings that the holes in the bottom of your gallon container are not packed too tight. Air must be able to flow through them to keep carbon dioxide from building up as the new roots are forming. When new roots are being created (growing) they will release carbon dioxide gas. This is what WILL cause your plants to go limp and die from SUFFOCATION if it is allowed to build up. Roots will grow real fast when you up pot your twigs....creating lots of carbon dioxide gas in the process. 

Also,  MAKE SURE that you "aerate" your potting soil real well BEFORE you use it. Don't just pour it from the bag and into your container. Some mixes can have very high levels of carbon dioxide gas in them (especially those with compost in them) from bacterial action. Get that damaging carbon dioxide gas out of there by mixing it real well WITH AIR before you use it.

Once the roots of a newly rooted twig have HARDNED OFF (yes, tender new roots need to harden off too....just like tender new leaves), this becomes much less of an issue. While it is perfectly OK to pour potting mix right out of the bag onto established plants.......it is preferable to "aerate" that mix real well BEFORE using it on tender new rooted twigs. I use a cement mixer to aerate my mix. Understanding this BIG TIP alone will save some of your cuttings.........
------------------------
The hardest cutting for me to root has been LSU Rouge.



Dan
Semper Fi-cus

dan,

have you used the cutting without root initial in your peat pot method? it seems your peat pot method makes lot of sense, but it still requires that the cuttings need to get root initial in old baggie method.

reading the forum, the best thing would be to use your method to get good root started, then use same soil mix for up pot to the 1g. keep the tree indoor until outside night temp is 50 degree F, then move it outside. if it survives the first winter, repot to larger pot. at that time, change of the soil should be fine.

pete

Pete,

I like to see root initals on my cuttings before I put them into peat pots. You can get those same root iniitials by putting your cuttings in water. You do not have to use or develop root initials in baggies if that is causing you to have problems.

I have writen quite a bit about the importance of temperature stabilization before. This is another very simple thing to control and it is another variable that many rooters do not seem to understand. I'll not rehash that material. Those having problems should read what I have written on this variable.

FYI, I am rooting some summer cuttings right now by what I call the Falling Water Level rooting method. I am trying to duplicate and document what I have done earlier in the season. I'll post pictures and give more details in another thread once I've rooted those cuttings.  

Dan,

This is what I going to do next season and give me your opinion please.
Everyone else is invited to give their opinions too.

I will be ordering 2.5"x10" tree pots very similar to what Bass used a couple months ago.
I got a quote for 150ct for roughly $40 shipped. I plan on using these pots to eliminate the need to re-pot the first season/year.

For those interested here's the info; Stuewe & Sons
http://www.stuewe.com/

You can order one piece or a truck load.

I did not see Bass's post on those pots. I'll look for it and comment later.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

I use peat pots but I also just root with rooting hormone in peatpots in peat grow mix and use humidity domes and heating mats.  This seems to do well for me but only one season I tried.

Dan,

I ordered those pots and will be shipped tomorrow I hope.
I ordered half case ( 330 pcs. ) and some trays.

The pots alone are roughly $50 plus shipping.

I will be home next week and I will post them to show you what they look like.
They are 2.5"x10" black tree pots.

Rafed,

Cathy,


Most recent quote I got was $24.75 for 150 pcs plus $18.10 for shipping.

The case cost $108. for 660 ct. box.

I called and ordered half case ( 330 ct. ) and we're guessing $54 to be exact plus shipping.

I also ordered five trays @ $3.20 pc plus shipping. Each holds 36 pots.

I will have the exact $$$ amount tomorrow with the breakdown.

My idea is to keep the newly rooted cuttings in the same container through the first year. I have a fridge in the basement and plan on using it for storage only. So instead of putting them in the garage during the first Winter they will remain in the pot and in the fridge till the following spring and all the lucky ones will be re-potted then.