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Heating Mat for Propagating Cuttings

Rich,
I just read an explanation of your rooting method that you posted in a new topic... http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1282053673&postcount=10
I didn't fully understand the growing technique that you are using prior to reading this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichinNJ,
As soon as they get leaves (1/2-3/4") and roots I can see on the bottom and/or sides put them on a tray on the heat mat and keep them watered. I'm now soaking them with 2 part hydroponics solution until it flows out of the bottom. I'm disposing of the flow-thru solution.

Its a Flood and Drain Hydroponic or Ebb and Flow technique! That's the part that I had missed from your earlier posts.
Thanks for the explanations and posting your results.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete
Rich,
I just read an explanation of your rooting method that you posted in a new topic... http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1282053673&postcount=10
I didn't fully understand the growing technique that you are using prior to reading this post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichinNJ,
As soon as they get leaves (1/2-3/4") and roots I can see on the bottom and/or sides put them on a tray on the heat mat and keep them watered. I'm now soaking them with 2 part hydroponics solution until it flows out of the bottom. I'm disposing of the flow-thru solution.

Its a Flood and Drain Hydroponic or Ebb and Flow technique! That's the part that I had missed from your earlier posts.
Thanks for the explanations and posting your results.



Dutch Bucket

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Rich,
Thanks for posting the link to the Dutch Bucket Hydroponics.

In answer to your post... http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1282056613&postcount=16

Quote:
There are significant differences between my method and the "Rooting Bag New Style". For one thing mine is repeatable and anyone can do it if they have $ and can follow directions. Simply grouping together every method that has perlite in it and saying they are the same is like saying anything with a roof is a house.

IMHO SIPs are not a very good way to grow cuttings and I'm doubting if there is any benefit to using it over irrigation for mature plants. One thing that people have failed to recognize is the high concentrations of salts that result and are never washed way.

Your Method is a modification of previously posted methods using Perlite or "gritty mix". Your modification is adding Hydroponic Fertilization with the "Dutch Bucket technique". I do agree that it will work, how well remains to be seen. To that end I will start ten 32oz Deli Containers with perlite and liquid fertilization. My modification will be using dilute Miracle Grow with added Gypsum and Epsom salt (for Calcium, Magnesium and balanced nutrients).

I will document and report the results in this Topic.

BTW, you don't need $ to be able to grow fig cuttings successfully.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete
Rich,
Thanks for posting the link to the Dutch Bucket Hydroponics.

In answer to your post... http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1282056613&postcount=16
Quote:
There are significant differences between my method and the "Rooting Bag New Style". For one thing mine is repeatable and anyone can do it if they have $ and can follow directions. Simply grouping together every method that has perlite in it and saying they are the same is like saying anything with a roof is a house.

IMHO SIPs are not a very good way to grow cuttings and I'm doubting if there is any benefit to using it over irrigation for mature plants. One thing that people have failed to recognize is the high concentrations of salts that result and are never washed way.

Your Method is a modification of previously posted methods using Perlite or "gritty mix". Your modification is adding Hydroponic Fertilization with the "Dutch Bucket technique". I do agree that it will work, how well remains to be seen. To that end I will start ten 32oz Deli Containers with perlite and liquid fertilization. My modification will be using dilute Miracle Grow with added Gypsum (for Calcium and balanced nutrients).

I will document and report the results in this Topic.


Do not use MG. Any similarities to other methods are simply coincidental.

There are several parts to my method and I'd be happy that you give it a critical review however every step must be replicated . Do not use ketchup for spaghetti sauce and then tell me it tastes funny.
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Rich,
Whether its called "tomato sauce" or "ketchup", "Flood and Drain" or "Dutch Bucket", the objective is to grow healthy cuttings to the 1 Gallon and larger stage, that will be the goal of the test.
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Here are the directions.....

"Recipe for success for propagating fig cuttings"

1) put the cuttings into a quart clear deli containers with holes cut in the bottom . One per container.

2) fill with 100% perlite that's well saturated with water

3) put them into a closed clear humidity chamber (clear storage box from Ikea)

4) keep on a heat mat set at 80F (measured in the perlite) The air temp will be equal to the perlite temp
I get a lot of roots before I get buds by using bottom heat.

5) keep under a 4 bulb T8 fluorescent fixture light turned on for 14 hours

6) As soon as they get leaves (1/2-3/4") and roots I can see on the bottom and/or sides put them on a tray on the heat mat and keep them watered under lights. I'm now soaking them with 2 part hydroponics solution until it flows out of the bottom. I'm disposing of the flow-thru solution. I use Cana Aqua 2.

__________________
Have a good day
Rich in NJ
Hardiness Zone 7a

Wish List: Doree, Noire de Caromb, Pastilière (Rouge de Boudeaux)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete
Rich,
Whether its called "tomato sauce" or "ketchup", "Flood and Drain" or "Dutch Bucket", the objective is to grow healthy cuttings to the 1 Gallon and larger stage, that will be the goal of the test.


If you are going to rate my taco recipe don't substitute mozzarella for queso fresco.


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Quote:
1) put the cuttings into a quart clear deli container with holes cut in the bottom 

How many cuttings per container?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
Quote:
1) put the cuttings into a quart clear deli container with holes cut in the bottom 

How many cuttings per container?




I typically use 1 per container. I add 1-2 inches of wetted perlite in the container then hold the bottom of the cutting to that level and fill the container to the top. I water with a turkey baster, drain, and then into the chamber it goes.

The only time I'm put multiple cuttings in together is if I think some are suspect and may not grow.

I had 4 cuttings of which I thought only one would grow so I put 4 into one pot recently and now I have 4 with leaves in one pot. Oh well. No ones perfect :) maybe ill try to separate them when I transplant them to soil.
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With the warmer weather I've backed off on stoking the furnace so the building has been cooler, especially up near the duct where I keep my cuttings. I've noticed a big slow down in how fast the cuttings are developing. I don't have the money for a heat mat. There's a lot of info on line on how to DIY with light ropes. She who must be consulted says we have a couple of strings of them but she hasn't seen them in a few years. I've looked and I can't find them. Meanwhile, the cuttings are developing, just more slowly, so I'm getting an exercise in patience that isn't hurting anything. From all that's been said I may be better off for it.
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Harvey, regarding hot spots, aluminum window screens are what gets used on the farm and I never asked or knew why. lol.

What grade/brand of perlite are you using Rich? The finer grades don't work well for me. Sifted?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
Harvey, regarding hot spots, aluminum window screens are what gets used on the farm and I never asked or knew why. lol.

What grade/brand of perlite are you using Rich? The finer grades don't work well for me. Sifted?




I buy the 2 cubic foot bag from Home Depot for $17. I don't sift it. I take it out of the bag a quart scoop at a time and wet it in a bucket and mix it with my hand.
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OK thanks, it seems to not matter since the water is the oxygen carrier, as opposed to air in conventional methods. 

So last questions:

Does your tub have handles? I find the ones with handles need much less opening and closing than those without, the ones with handles have holes where they attach so there is some airflow. The type without handles and a solid lid (clear tub though) allows hardly any air exchange because the lid fits tight to hold itself on. 

How often are you actually watering? Have you allowed the perlite to dry at all in between waterings? 

Have you transitioned any of these plants to a conventional potting mix that is allowed to dry between waterings? Soil? 

From what I can gather your method is more or less what orchid growers refer to as semi-hydro culture (minus the small reservoir, and with a finer media). The problem for me with using a hydro method is that roots will often not survive transplant to a conventional potting mix well, they have already adapted to life in water. I think figs are resilient enough to make the transition but are going to feel quite a shock by losing their fine roots and need time in the shade till they regrow. The shock is fairly well documented on other plant forums so figs would be an exception.

Otherwise I think somebody could figure out how to grow figs in a conventional hydro system if they liked a challenge, and cuttings grown in semi hydro should make that transition just fine. Figs are salt tolerant so all the flushing your method uses is not necessary.
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Rich,
Is this the fertilizer product that you are using?
Canna Aqua Vega A & B
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canna-Aqua-Vega-A-B-5-Liter-Base-Grow-Nutrients-5L-/331152555835?_trksid=p2054897.l4276
[$_35] 

Quote:
Aqua Vega part A and B is part of a complete 2-part nutrient for plants during the growth cycle. CANNA Aqua is a line of nutrients that has been specifically developed for the use in hydroponic systems like NFT (nutrient film technique), DWC (deep water culture), aeroponics, ebb n flow or flood and drain, and drip systems. With these systems the drainage water is not removed but reused. The formula is made up so the plants regulate the pH themselves so that the pH in the nutrient tank always remains within the optimum pH range. This means that having once set the correct starting pH no further correction is necessary. Aqua Vega part A and B is easy to use. Just add part A first in the water then add an equal amount of part B, mix well and water your plants.


How many plants, 1 quart and or 1 gallon fig trees have you already grown successfully with this system? and What is your current success rate?
Thanks.
Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
OK thanks, it seems to not matter since the water is the oxygen carrier, as opposed to air in conventional methods. 

So last questions:

Does your tub have handles? I find the ones with handles need much less opening and closing than those without, the ones with handles have holes where they attach so there is some airflow. The type without handles and a solid lid (clear tub though) allows hardly any air exchange because the lid fits tight to hold itself on. 

How often are you actually watering? Have you allowed the perlite to dry at all in between waterings? 

Have you transitioned any of these plants to a conventional potting mix that is allowed to dry between waterings? Soil? 

From what I can gather your method is more or less what orchid growers refer to as semi-hydro culture (minus the small reservoir, and with a finer media). The problem for me with using a hydro method is that roots will often not survive transplant to a conventional potting mix well, they have already adapted to life in water. I think figs are resilient enough to make the transition but are going to feel quite a shock by losing their fine roots and need time in the shade till they regrow. The shock is fairly well documented on other plant forums so figs would be an exception.

Otherwise I think somebody could figure out how to grow figs in a conventional hydro system if they liked a challenge, and cuttings grown in semi hydro should make that transition just fine. Figs are salt tolerant so all the flushing your method uses is not necessary.


I don't completely understand what your are asking about the tub ?

The fig cuttings only get hydro solution when they are out of the humidity chamber.

All plants are growing in quart containers sitting in catch tray.

The solution is mixed in 2 gallon batches and measured and poured into the quart containers/planters

I water 1 time a day. Sometimes 2 times but it's not often necessary. I also alternate straight water and hydro solution. They grow too fast if I use hydro solution all the time.

And yes the perlite dries out some and looses weight between waterings as the plant uses it or it evaporates

I don't have space to transplant to soil yet. That will come next month. I not expecting anything out of the ordinary. The whole root ball, perlite and all will go into the soil.
Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete
Rich,
Is this the fertilizer product that you are using?
Canna Aqua Vega A & B
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canna-Aqua-Vega-A-B-5-Liter-Base-Grow-Nutrients-5L-/331152555835?_trksid=p2054897.l4276
[$_35] 
Quote:
Aqua Vega part A and B is part of a complete 2-part nutrient for plants during the growth cycle. CANNA Aqua is a line of nutrients that has been specifically developed for the use in hydroponic systems like NFT (nutrient film technique), DWC (deep water culture), aeroponics, ebb n flow or flood and drain, and drip systems. With these systems the drainage water is not removed but reused. The formula is made up so the plants regulate the pH themselves so that the pH in the nutrient tank always remains within the optimum pH range. This means that having once set the correct starting pH no further correction is necessary. Aqua Vega part A and B is easy to use. Just add part A first in the water then add an equal amount of part B, mix well and water your plants.


How many plants, 1 quart and or 1 gallon fig trees have you already grown successfully with this system? and What is your current success rate?
Thanks.


That's the Cana product I use.

There are better places to buy it from. If you talk to Hydro Girl in Nyack she can answer your questions and she has a 6 foot tall hydro banana growing in the window too you can check out. Their second place is in Astoria. I'm pretty sure they do mail order too.

http://www.thegrowroom.com

Grow shop search engine...

https://growshops.com/en/

To date 36 plants 1 loss. All in quart containers.
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Rich,
Thanks for the reply.
I will stop by the Nyack Growroom store in the next few days. I'm not actually interested in hydroponics, because IMO, the flavor of soil grown produce is superior to hydroponically grown produce, but am looking forward to getting more info on the nutrient solution and its analysis.

I will be following your method,

Quote:

1) put the cuttings into a quart clear deli containers with holes cut in the bottom . One per container.
2) fill with 100% perlite that's well saturated with water
3) put them into a closed clear humidity chamber (clear storage box from Ikea)
4) keep on a heat mat set at 80F (measured in the perlite) The air temp will be equal to the perlite temp
I get a lot of roots before I get buds by using bottom heat.
5) keep under a 4 bulb T8 fluorescent fixture light turned on for 14 hours
6) As soon as they get leaves (1/2-3/4") and roots I can see on the bottom and/or sides put them on a tray on the heat mat and keep them watered under lights. I'm now soaking them with 2 part hydroponics solution until it flows out of the bottom. I'm disposing of the flow-thru solution. I use Cana Aqua 2.

But will be modifying 4,5 and 6, by eliminating the heat mat and maintaining 75 deg - 80 deg F ambient temps, using natural sunlight after the cuttings have rooted and fertilizing with dilute MG fertilizer after the cuttings have rooted.

I tried the Forsythe Pot method of rooting with fig cuttings last year and was very successful in rooting and growing cuttings in a Perlite / Vermiculite media, so I believe this experiment will be as successful.
Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete
Rich,
Thanks for the reply.
I will stop by the Nyack Growroom store in the next few days. I'm not actually interested in hydroponics, because IMO, the flavor of soil grown produce is superior to hydroponically grown produce, but am looking forward to getting more info on the nutrient solution and its analysis.

I will be following your method,
Quote:

1) put the cuttings into a quart clear deli containers with holes cut in the bottom . One per container.
2) fill with 100% perlite that's well saturated with water
3) put them into a closed clear humidity chamber (clear storage box from Ikea)
4) keep on a heat mat set at 80F (measured in the perlite) The air temp will be equal to the perlite temp
I get a lot of roots before I get buds by using bottom heat.
5) keep under a 4 bulb T8 fluorescent fixture light turned on for 14 hours
6) As soon as they get leaves (1/2-3/4") and roots I can see on the bottom and/or sides put them on a tray on the heat mat and keep them watered under lights. I'm now soaking them with 2 part hydroponics solution until it flows out of the bottom. I'm disposing of the flow-thru solution. I use Cana Aqua 2.

But will be modifying 4,5 and 6, by eliminating the heat mat and maintaining 75 deg - 80 deg F ambient temps, using natural sunlight after the cuttings have rooted and fertilizing with dilute MG fertilizer after the cuttings have rooted.

I tried the Forsythe Pot method of rooting with fig cuttings last year and was very successful in rooting and growing cuttings in a Perlite / Vermiculite media, so I believe this experiment will be as successful.


MG has urea as nitrogen source and will have to go thru the nitrite to nitrate biological transformation before it can be used by the plant. Its ok for plants in soil but its not recommended for hydro. The results will not be good based on what Ive ready on this and other forums.
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Rich,
Miracle Grow General Purpose has both Ammoniacal and Urea based Nitrogen. Since we are not creating a nutrient reservoir with a standing solution around the roots, the cuttings are only being started in the Perlite growing media with a simple NFT and are not being grown to fruition, there should not be any problems with absorption of available nutrients.  If additional nitrogen is needed a cheap and inexpensive source of ammoniacal nitrogen can be easily found : )

The only major issue that I see with the MG would be the pH being too high. A simple solution for this would be to add apple cider vinegar to the water to reduce the pH.
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SAMLA Box with lid IKEA The lid protects the contents and makes the box stackable.
Is that the tub? I find the ones with latching lids do not need to be opened for fresh air as often because they do not form a tight seal. 

Pete, I am trying out Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Grow this year and it is designed for hydro. It is a naturally produced fertilizer that is advertised to be readily available to the plant. Have a look when you go shopping. Here is some more info:

Guaranteed Analysis:

  • Total Nitrogen (N): 3.0%
  • Total Nitrogen (N): 3.0% Water Soluble Nitrogen
  • Available Phosphate (P2O5): 2.0%
  • Soluble Potash (K2O): 4.0%
  • Calcium (Ca): 1.0%
  • Magnesium (Mg): 0.5%
  • Magnesium (Mg): 0.5% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)

ALSO CONTAINS NON-PLANT FOOD INGREDIENT: 0.20% Humic acid derived from leonardite.

Derived from: Fish Meal, Composted Seabird Guano, Kelp, Rock Phosphate, Potassium Carbonate, Magnesium Carbonate, Calcium Carbonate.
Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete
Rich,
Miracle Grow General Purpose has both Ammoniacal and Urea based Nitrogen. Since we are not creating a nutrient reservoir with a standing solution around the roots, the cuttings are only being started in the Perlite growing media with a simple NFT and are not being grown to fruition, there should not be any problems with absorption of available nutrients.  If additional nitrogen is needed a cheap and inexpensive source of ammoniacal nitrogen can be easily found : )

The only major issue that I see with the MG would be the pH being too high. A simple solution for this would be to add apple cider vinegar to the water to reduce the pH.


Don't do it.

Just use the Cana Aqua concentrate for $13 each for a liter of A and B. It will make many gallons of solution

Black olives are not a good substitute for raisins in breakfast oatmeal with maple syrup.
Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
SAMLA Box with lid IKEA The lid protects the contents and makes the box stackable.
Is that the tub? I find the ones with latching lids do not need to be opened for fresh air as often because they do not form a tight seal. 

Pete, I am trying out Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Grow this year and it is designed for hydro. It is a naturally produced fertilizer that is advertised to be readily available to the plant. Have a look when you go shopping. Here is some more info:

Guaranteed Analysis:

  • Total Nitrogen (N): 3.0%
  • Total Nitrogen (N): 3.0% Water Soluble Nitrogen
  • Available Phosphate (P2O5): 2.0%
  • Soluble Potash (K2O): 4.0%
  • Calcium (Ca): 1.0%
  • Magnesium (Mg): 0.5%
  • Magnesium (Mg): 0.5% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)

ALSO CONTAINS NON-PLANT FOOD INGREDIENT: 0.20% Humic acid derived from leonardite.

Derived from: Fish Meal, Composted Seabird Guano, Kelp, Rock Phosphate, Potassium Carbonate, Magnesium Carbonate, Calcium Carbonate.




IKEA containers.... For the humidity chamber.... That's what I use

Looks like you are and undercover hydro guy.....
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More like aquaponics, wish I could afford it. Hope you don't mind me sharing a video of a true American hero...



I got the fancy hydro fertilizer to try to get a more immediate and controlled result than the other organic fertilizers I usually use, for foliar feeding as well.
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It's good. They are growing perch. I don't like tilapia very much.
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Rich,
I visited the Grow Room Store, http://www.thegrowroom.com/ and met with Lindsey. Thanks for the recommendation, they have a large diverse inventory. After listening to my rambling story and questions, she quickly and expertly answered all my questions and showed me a website that lists most manufactured fertilizer products and their analysis. After listening to my Coco Coir experience with fig cuttings, she introduced me to several items including CocoGro Cloning Plugs by Botanicare, its a Coir based plug with tray similar to Root Riot, but the plus are not sponge. I have a tray of this product and will be using it in the test as a control.
CocoGrowbyBotanicare.jpg 
I will also be growing out several of the cuttings in 5 gallon "Dutch Buckets" as a continued test.
Banana tree at the Grow Room Nyack NY_3-25-14.jpg 
I also checked out the Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Grow and several other nutrient products.

The test will consist of four (4) groups of ten (10) containers each. The groups are;
1.  Your Perlite Method 1 qt deli container...
2.  Cocogro Cloning Plugs then to 2 liter Mini-SIPs...
3.  2 liter Mini-SIPs with Peat based mix...
4.  2 liter Mini-SIPs with Coir based mix... 
It will begin this weekend. I will post the initial start pictures in this topic.

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