aphahn
Registered:1354927274 Posts: 321
Posted 1355929820
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#1
Hi All, I wanted to say hello and introduce myself. I have been gardening all my life and growing lots of fruit since I have had some land (not much) to do so. I'm in Colorado just north of Denver, USDA zone 6a. I never considered figs as posible here until I learned they can be easy in pots. Last year I started two varieties in pots and have been blown away by how easy and productive they can be. Now I'm hooked ;) A lot of the information that encouraged me helped me get started came from this forum. Thank you all for sharing!
This fall I took advantage of ebay auctions (thanks again to those selling on ebay) to add some fantastic varieties to my collection (assuming I can root them) and discovered that a few of them might even be hardy enough to grow unprotected outside here. I'm really excited about Florea in particular. That got me wondering about breeding for cold hardiness and earliness as well as using it as a rootstock to increase the cold hardiness/earliness of other varieties. I searched this forum to see if anyone had tried, and found suggestions and some project starts, but didn't find any results. I could have just missed them, there is a lot of info here, but was wondering if anyone has had success with breeding or grafting for cold hardine ss/earliness?
Andy
__________________ Andy - Zone 6a Lat 39.9º N, Alt 5390' Westminster CO ⚘ Scion List
dkirtexas
Registered:1341345900 Posts: 1,327
Posted 1355932651
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#2
Andy Welcome our version of sanity, LOL. Speaking for myself, I have found that breeding has little to do with growing figs as I come from very questionable breeding. I also don't know anything about grafts, I really don't know why they allow me to remain a member. Maybe they keep me to make the rest look sane.To a more serious question, although you are in a particular zone, does altitude affect anything? What about mountain shading? Do you have the same number of daylight hours as someone in Kansas? I guess if you were on a peak it would not matter. Anyway, welcome
__________________ Thx, glad to be here Danny K "EL CAZADOR DE HIGO" Waskom Tx Zone 7B/8 Wish list: anything anyone wants me to have. LSU RED. Any LSU fig.
rcantor
Registered:1309799312 Posts: 5,724
Posted 1355933639
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#3
Welcome, Andy! (Danny, LOL!) There's lot's of info on grafting but no info that I've seen on whether it can improve cold hardiness in figs. Maybe that's a good research niche for you. To breed you'd need the fig wasp. While you can get them mail order (From CA, not Russia) your season may or may not be long enough to get the job done. If you were to bring your fig plants out of dormancy early in a greenhouse that might get you the time you need to breed.
__________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
barnhardt9999
Registered:1351699779 Posts: 183
Posted 1355936072
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#4
There are ways to breed without the wasp but breeding is not for the casual grower from what I read. Plan for 1/3 with no fruit, 1/3 capfig and 1/3 with worse fruit quality than either parent. Unless you have a lot of land for useless figs (less than 1 in 100 are keepers from my reading) lots of patience to sort out useless lines and lots of tolerence for failure then fig breeding probably isn't for you.
__________________ 8a
DesertDance
Registered:1247674606 Posts: 4,518
Posted 1355942569
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#5
I'll add my welcome too! Enjoy the forum! Nice having you here! Suzi
__________________ Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!" Wish List: I wish all of you happy fig collecting! My wishes have been fulfilled!
TONYSAC
Registered:1337644850 Posts: 1,031
Posted 1355945998
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#6
Welcome Andy
__________________ Anthony Garden city park, Long Island NY 11040 Zone 7b : 5 to 10 (F) (Nassau) FIGS4FUN1@aol.com Im here to help Crazy80z28 on Ebay Wish list... Hmmm more room.
dfoster25
Registered:1337044031 Posts: 723
Posted 1355963918
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#7
Welcome to the Forum Andy!
__________________ Zone 6, SE MICHIGAN -14F 1-7-14 -23F 2-?-15 6F 1-18-16
ForeverFigs
Registered:1351425467 Posts: 1,062
Posted 1355964396
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#8
Welcome to the Forum....plenty to learn here.....try searching for posts by "Grasa" she is the resident grafting wizard, and is from Seattle, where they are always looking for cold hardy varieties. Good Luck.
__________________ Vince
Edison N.J.
Zone 6b
Wish List: LaRadek's EBT
Pattee
Registered:1345750012 Posts: 1,417
Posted 1355965404
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#9
Welcome Andy !!
__________________ 7a & 9b ►I assume all my figs carry FMV ◄ Seeking : Italian 376,395 , Galicia Negra, Negretta,UNK Pastilliere ,Pananas Purple, Malta Blk+purple/red, Italian + Calabrian UNK's , Catanzaro, Malone, Sucrette(Baud) "We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?" - Gandhi
oldvt
Registered:1323471395 Posts: 214
Posted 1355973610
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#10
Hi Andy, I have 70 seedlings I started last spring, the seeds came from Tom a member here, he has said he will send me some male tree cutting, I want to do inline breading for cold hardiness , the trees that are not up to standards will be used for root stock, I could at some time seed you some cutting off the seedlings if you want to work with them, Rex.
__________________ Looking to trade an IT 258 for basses Red Leb or a O Rourke for a Hunt.
newnandawg
Registered:1344130335 Posts: 2,535
Posted 1355974222
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#11
Welcome Andy
aphahn
Registered:1354927274 Posts: 321
Posted 1355984296
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#12
Thanks all for the warm welcome (regardless of your breeding)! Danny, I agree that there is more too hardiness than minimum temp. I tried a Chicago Hardy outside here one year, and it was well protected, but it simply dried up during that warm dry winter. It will be interesting to see how other varieties do with our warm dry spells punctuated with cold and snow. I have seen some encouraging reports about Marseilles Black VS in NM, which is a similar climate except a bit warmer. @Bob C. I'm planning on giving it a try using Florea as the root stock, but I only just got cuttings and won't have a Florea tree that I will want to behead for at least two years. Though maybe next year I'll try grafting and rooting at the same time, like I do with grapes if my cuttings grow well. @barnhardt9999 Yep, for some (me) that sounds like fun ;) It is far less daunting than apples, at least once you have seed. I have been reading up on it too, have you found any good info on pollination without wasps? Everything I have found so far is pretty vague. As for lots of undesirable trees, I plan on letting the climate here weed out most of the seedlings and simply evaluate the ones that survive. Maybe I'll never get any results, time will tell. I guess I'll need to hunt down a caprifig at some point if I want to get started. @Rex That sounds very interesting. Were the seeds you started from an intentional cross with a cold hardy variety? From what I understand, they should be at least 1/2 male, and if they started from a cold hardy fig, the males might be useful to continue using for breeding. Regardless, I'll happily take you up on your offer when the seedlings are big enough. If you have a chance, I'd love to see a picture of the first season seedlings. Andy
__________________ Andy - Zone 6a Lat 39.9º N, Alt 5390' Westminster CO ⚘ Scion List
saxonfig
Registered:1258080612 Posts: 1,370
Posted 1355986392
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#13
Welcome to the forum Andy. I hope those cuttings do well for you. There may be a few varieties that hold some nice promise for cold hardiness even without further breeding. It seems that most of these aren't widely available yet but should start finding their way around in due time. I have one variety of Lebanese origin that has proven to be quite cold hardy here in zone 6b (temps as low as -5). I don't have any part of this one to offer at this time but should have some after another season or two. There are some others that have names that hint at the possibility of being cold hardy or have been reported to be but not yet fully proven out. A couple of those names are Caucasus and Baskinta (2 variations). I have one small tree of each of these and hope to give them full opportunity to prove cold hardiness or not in the near future. I've considered trying some breeding myself. I have a friend who is a horticulturist and he even expressed some interest as well. But as was mentioned, it takes some considerable effort, a lot of patients as well as a good place to grow out a large number of fig trees. And it's not until sometime long after that when the process of selection begins. To me it still sounds like an awesome project. Just be prepared to be in it for the long haul ;-) .
__________________Fig Well An d Prosper! Bill - SW KY. Zone 6b. 36.5N I'm fruitnut on ebay.
DWD2
Registered:1331116011 Posts: 140
Posted 1355995939
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#14
WB Storey wrote a chapter on fig breeding in the book "Advances in Fruit Breeding" published in 1975. The breeding itself is actually pretty easy. Testing seedlings for desired qualities is a very big undertaking. For instance, O'Rourke at LSU spent a couple of decades breeding for nematode root-knot resistance. The difficulty is that even if a seedling has a desired quality, in this case cold resistance, it is likely to have lost many other desired qualities. Breeding is for the patient person with lots of time and land. You might be more productive in looking for figs that grow well in colder climates and take what evolution has already selected as cold tolerant.
aphahn
Registered:1354927274 Posts: 321
Posted 1356068154
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#15
Thanks Bill, all the cuttings look great. I can barely wait to get them going. Is the Lebanese variety you mentioned the one form Cairo IL I was reading about on the forum? What an awesome story behind that tree. It will be interested to hear how the other varieties handel the cold. DWD2, Thanks for the pointer to "Advances in Fruit Breeding". I'll always be on the lookout for possibly cold hardy/early varieties that could do well here too ;) Andy
__________________ Andy - Zone 6a Lat 39.9º N, Alt 5390' Westminster CO ⚘ Scion List
ascpete
Registered:1336096379 Posts: 1,942
Posted 1356068858
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#16
Hello Andy, Welcome to the forum. There is lots of information on "cold hardy" varieties on the forum if you do a search. "Herman2" and "robertharper" are forum member that have done a lot of trials over the years for in ground cold hardy figs, search for their Topics, posts and recommendations. English Brown Turkey and Celeste are some of the hardiest and may be good for in ground rootstock also. If you do a search for "Japanese fig espalier" you will find a pruning technique that can be used in colder zones for in ground figs, with minimal labor for winter protection. There is lots of good information available. Good Luck
aphahn
Registered:1354927274 Posts: 321
Posted 1356154275
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#17
Thanks Pete, I had been trying to find good pictures of intensive pruning systems. Exactly what I was looking for. I continue to be blown away by the depth of information folks post here. Andy
__________________ Andy - Zone 6a Lat 39.9º N, Alt 5390' Westminster CO ⚘ Scion List
DWD2
Registered:1331116011 Posts: 140
Posted 1356162407
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#18
Andy, An additional thought is to test some cultivars that are already reported to be more cold tolerant. Two cultivars I have stumbled across that might suit your needs are Castle Kennedy which has been grown in Scotland since at least the late 1700s in an area that gets pretty cold and Olympian which is reported to be an unusual cultivar that is cold tolerant.http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/05/12/1183238/big-on-figs-a-retired-biologist.html I have no direct experience with either cultivar. Castle Kennedy is available through the NCGR in Davis, CA. As for Olympian, if you find some cuttings please let me know. I'd love to get some cuttings of that one as it is not in my collection yet. I am sure their are a number of people on this forum who have broader experience than me with lots of cultivars that will have other suggested cultivars to try. Good luck with your trees!
musillid
Registered:1327758167 Posts: 1,507
Posted 1356186082
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#19
Accoridng to Condit: Starnes and Monroe reported in 1907 that in
Georgia, Castle Kennedy, obtained from the same French nursery as the above
number, resembled Dalmatian (Brunswick), and might prove to be identical with it.
Judging from the various accounts of this variety, the Castle Kennedy is very similar to
Brunswick, but belongs to the San Pedro rather than to the Common group of figs.
__________________ Dale
non compost mentis in Zone 6a
DWD2
Registered:1331116011 Posts: 140
Posted 1356204632
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#20
Dale, The accession information for Castle Kennedy (DFIC 153) at the NCGR states: "Accession was collected. Scotland, United Kingdom. Comment: Old variety from Scotland, but how it came to be in Scotland, possibly since the late 1700's, is unknown." So it may be the same as what Condit describes or not. A couple of things I've seen from Todd Kennedy, who donated it to the NCGR in 1988, suggest it is distinct from Brunswick. Another part of Condit's section on Castle Kennedy from the 1955 Hilgardia publication states:A color illustration of Ficus carica kennedyensis Hort. is given in L’Illustration
Horticole, vol. 13 (ser. 2, vol. 3), pl. 476. 1866. A writer in the Gardener’s Chronicle,
November 19, 1864, observed that Messrs. Lawson and Son were to distribute the Castle
Kennedy fig, which had been exhibited in Scotland and had obtained an award from
the Edinburgh Horticultural Society. An anonymous account in 1865 (Florist and
Pomologist, p.141) stated that this variety had then existed at Castle Kennedy for nearly
a century; but how it came there or what was its origin were matters on which there
was no reliable information. It was believed to be quite distinct from any other variety
in cultivation in England. Archibald Fowler, who grew this fig at Castle Kennedy,
along with Brunswick and Brown Turkey, also maintained that it was distinct from both
varieties. Several reports indicate that the trees are poor producers; but on the contrary,
Hogg stated, “The tree is an abundant bearer.” A writer of 1873, signed simply as “K.,”
reported that Castle Kennedy was worthless as a cropper.....it is a runaway, unfruitful
variety, not worth house room.” Brotherston noted that in England only one crop,
presumably the first, is produced in a year. This seems to confirm the report of Burger
and De Wet, that in South Africa the second crop requires caprification, a fact that
places the variety in the San Pedro group.
A letter dated June 20, 1954, from Sir John Dalrymple, Earl of Stair, states that two
trees of the Castle Kennedy fig are still being grown mainly for sentimental reasons at
Lochinch Castle, Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland. R. W. Rye, the head gardener,
agrees with “K.” above that this fig “is not worth house room as it is very shy in setting
fruit.”
That also suggests that Castle Kennedy is distinct, but raises questions about its quality. Once again, I have no direct experience with this cultivar. Others probably know better than me, but it seems there is a fair chance this fig is pretty cold tolerant. That area of Scotland gets miserably cold. I think some of the folks on this forum have tasted this fig at one of the fall tasting parties at Wolfskill Orchard. So, some opinions about its quality might be available here too. I am hoping that forum members that have experience with cold tolerant cultivars will chime-in. Good luck with your trees!
aphahn
Registered:1354927274 Posts: 321
Posted 1356221856
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#21
Dwd2, thanks for the info. That's 4 leads on potentially cold hardy figs I hadn't heard of yet from just this one post.
Your info on Castle Kennedy makes me all the more interested. Even if it is not a good cropper, a vigorous cold hardy fig fits perfectly in my grafting experiment. I'll have to request some next year.
As for Olympian, it sounds like burntridge will have it at some point. I'll shoot them an email after the holidays to see when it might be offered. I'll let you know what I find out.
Andy
__________________ Andy - Zone 6a Lat 39.9º N, Alt 5390' Westminster CO ⚘ Scion List