I will use the terms Ischia Black and Black interchangeably in this discussion since I believe they are understood to be the same variety.  Also, it should be understood that any reference to UCD Ischia Black indicates that the origin of the Ischia Black plant came from cuttings sourced through USDA's NCGR at Davis and grown at Wolfskill (UCD's Wolfskill Experimental Orchard, part of which is leased to USDA).

I've done considerable searching and reading on Ischia Black in the past week since Jon mentioned some uncertainty over the I.D. of a "Black Ischia" plant I brought for the silent auction at his Fig Fiesta.  I have quite a few of these plants started from cuttings that were obtained from Prusch Park in San Jose at an orchard maintained by CRFG chapters.  I also obtained one cutting of Black Ischia from Dick Watts and notice a difference in the plants.  So I gave Dick a call this morning.  He said that he originally bought his tree from a nursery back east and it was labeled Black Provence, a French variety.  He said that Jon site (http://figs4fun.com/Var_B_info.html#BLACKISCHIA) lists Black Provence as a synonym for Black Ischia so he just calls it that.  I do not know the source of information to call Black Provence a synonym for Black Ischia.  Dick mentioned the petioles (leaf stems) being reddish and that the eyes of the fruit are also red.

I have found a fair amount of discussion about their being differences between the sources, particularly from Martin (Diesler) with Dennis (snaglpus) and Pete (bullet08) also discussing their "UCD" Ischia Black.  Martin has apparently deleted photos that had been part of his posts so those aren't much help, lol.  Martin mentions Ischia Black 3014x in posts as indicating a source from Jon/Encanto to distinguish from his UCD Ischia Black.  Dennis posted photos of the trees at USDA's trees at Wolfskill in his post at http://www.figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1273730435&postcount=1 but those leaves are all mature and not as helpful as I'd like.  Pete has some nice photos posted a couple of months ago http://www.figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=6417434 with his tree being started from a cutting obtained from USDA Davis ("UCD").  It is quite clear that the petioles on Pete's tree are not reddish.  Jake also has one post at http://www.figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1278645033&postcount=22 where he shoes a small planted started from a Davis cutting earlier this year.  It also does not have reddish petioles.  The young leaves on his tree look very much like mine started from Prusch cuttings.

Bass tells me that he also has a small plant started from a Davis cutting and he will provide a photo when he locates it.  If you have plants that were started from USDA cuttings and can share, please do so.

Below are photos of one of my in-ground Ischia Black trees as well as another still in a pot, both grown from Prusch cuttings.

Thank you for starting this discussion. Having purchased IB from Jon (twice - once directly, once via ebay) I was saddened to see it was not the same as the IB from Davis, but seems to be more like something in the VdB family.

In a previous thread Jon said his source of (some of?) the cuttings he was selling was from a fig guru and that person called it 'Black Ischi' - or something like that.

Fig identities... so confusing.

This is a photo from about a year ago retrieved from another thread here. It is of my young BI rooted cuttings from Jon/Encanto. Don't know if this helps. But no red petioles.

Harvey, here are pics of my two IB cuttings from UCD and started on 3-12-13.

Here is my 9 years old,ucd Ischia blk.
It wanted to die many Springs but managed to come back alive.
This year it wants to produce a handful of fruits too,but to talk about a harvest,Forget.!

Herman, did you start your tree from a cutting obtained directly from Davis?  Yours is the only "UCD Ischia Black" I've seen with reddish petioles.

Harvey, do you not consider the petioles on mine reddish?

Mike, I did not see your post.  Yes, they sure do look reddish!

Here are two photos Pete just took and emailed me of his Ischia Black obtained from Davis earlier this year.

Yes I obtained cuttings directly from UCD germaplasm

Maybe I'll try to make a trip to Wolfskill very soon and see if the tree has any signs of mutations that produce different growth patterns on some parts of the tree.

Hi Harvey

Jons 3014X according from him came from a local fig fella , i had it leaves that resembled bordeaux family figs and tasted like it them as well.  - Discarded.

Exotica Nursery - Ischia Black - currently growing and now looking like bordeaux leaves as well , figs were pulled and will get plenty to taste next season as it put out a lot of little figs this year .

Hirts Nursery - Ischia Black looked like Celeste  - discarded
But have seen others pictures and those looked much different from mine.


Richard Watts - Ischia Black. had his plant also and compared to Ucdavis Ischia Black from memory as i have no pictures it was not like UcDavis Ischia Black -Died in dormancy.

 Part of email excerpt from RW when i asked where his ischia black came from.

The Black Ischia that I have was obtained from Paul Starnes in Newnan, Georgia. who is since deceased.  He called it Black Provence, but I believe iit is the same fig.  It is very distinctive as it has reddish buds and a pink eye.  Mine does not show FMV most of the time but will show it sporatically.  I have had it since '86 and it  is still in a 5 gal. can.

It went on to say he R.W. renamed it because he thought it looked more like Ischia Black. END.



As a note Richard Starnes from my understanding was very knowledgeable when it came to fig plants and was 1 of 2 founding fathers of another forum called "Friends of the Fig Society " to which i and a few members here belong to .
Its been quite a while since i posted their and not sure if forum still is active.


Here is UcDavis Ischia Black and picture of red hue shown on 1 of my plants that i pulled all figs off this season.
Also shown is a ripe fig from my other UcDavis Ischia Black.

Thanks, Martin, for the detailed info.  I can't quite tell from the first photo, does it had reddish petioles also?

By the way, Dick told me he never gets even one fig from all of his trees, the ground squirrels and rats eat all of them. :(

Harvey yes it does 2nd picture show it better.

Okay, thanks. I thought maybe picture #2 was of a different tree of the same variety.

Pete told me via email something strange - he received 1 cutting from Davis.  He cut it in half.  The bottom half did have some reddish in it but died.  The top half of the cutting is growing sell and does not have red in it.  I can't believe an old variety like this would be unstable, but don't know what to make of it.

Harvey,



This is from my BI, now deceased, which had very bad FMV.



This is from pix on the USDA website of plant at WEO.

Black Ischia AD appears to have leaves more consistent with with VdB, and I suspect originated at Exotica Nursery, Vista, CA. It had al;ways been dormant when I saw it.

Black Provence from RW generally has a much lighter, mostly golden, interior, and don't have a leaf pix - so not sure where it fits in the puzzle.

Yours from Prusch has VdB like leaves, from what I saw at the Fiesta.

I do have to say that getting a mislabeled BI fig that turns out to be a VdB is not a bad deal - you are still getting a very, very good fig, albeit not what you expected.

Jon, photos of my Prusch Ischia Black are up in the OP, but not very good to compare since they are immature.  To my eye, looks same or similar to what Jake posted which I linked above.

Here is my Black Ischia grown from cutting received from Dick Watts:

harvey, 

i received 1 large cutting from USDA/UCD this yr. that cutting was cut into two, and i rooted both. one of the cutting didn't make it, the other is one that i posted.. i think. the one that didn't make it, looked rather different, altho, they are from same large cutting. the one that died had red all over. the bud was red, the leaves had red "vein". it didn't do much. stayed that way for a month or two then just dried up and died. not sure what happened. probably rotted. 

the one that survived shows no sign of redness anywhere that i can see. two cuttings from single large cutting, and they were putting out different leaves. 

USDA/UCD Barnissotte is doing something similar also. the lower cutting is having lot of weird looking leaves. but the top cutting has very clean and defined leaves. 

Thanks for the research Harvey.  I love to hear about research someone has traced on figs.  I have 2 Black Ischias from UCD.  I started mine from cuttings 3 years ago.  Both doubled in height this year and gave me figs that were excellent.  Mr Watts and I have touched based several times.  He use to live here in Charlotte.  I have several of his trees and more coming next year.  

My BI UCD has the same leaf thickness as the mother tree at Davis and the same as Mike's and Martin.  Mine also has the same red tips and red veins.  My trees are in self watering pots and kept indoors in winter.  

Harvey  I went out and took leaf patterns from my trees.  I'll post them tonight.  Sorry but I don't think the Prusch cutting is the same as BI UCD.  The leaf patterns look totally different to me.  Thanks!

 

Dennis, my photos above are of immature leaves, mostly.  I will be inspecting the other tree at Prusch next week, probably.  What is still quite confusing is why do Pete and Jake have Ischia Black from Davis without the red ting?

Here is a photo of my most mature leave, though grown in my shade house so still somewhat still of questionable use:

My Black Ischia leaf patterns:

I got my Black Ichia from Dick also and was told the same story as Martin posted. It has been a slow grower as it's 3 years old and only 3 foot tall. Here are some pictures of the leaves and figs. I don't know if the helps or hinders but this is what I have.





Young leaves


Mature leaves






Preto on left, BI on right


Bi on left, Preto on right

Gene, the insides of yours also looks like the 'Black Provance' at Jon's site.  http://figs4fun.com/Thumbnail_Black_Provence.html

But not as much the Black Ischia.  http://figs4fun.com/Thumbnail_Black_Ischia.html

Wonder why Mr Watts would change the name when it already came with a recognized one?

Harvey,

Had a ripe IB today for the first time and it was superb. Too bad the temps are dropping or otherwise I would have more. I have a few more that I might get luck to sample in the next couple days.
I can post pictures of mine tomorrow.

But here's a link to the thread I started on it a while ago.

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/ischia-black-070713-update-5885204