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How do you know that your tree is dormant?

This sounds redundant, but here's why I'm asking:

I purchased a four or five year old Kathleen's Black earlier this year.  It is potted in a 25 gallon resin wine barrel, aka Bill's Figs pot (It is not a SIP).  The grower did not tell me how long the tree was in that pot but did say that the tree definitely needed to be root pruned.  I noticed that the tree had some brown spots on some of the leaves and assumed it was due to the tree needing a root prune.  When the tree got to my backyard it was placed in full sun, watered and fertilized regularly.  I began to notice the brown spots starting to spread.  Gradually the leaves with the spots started to turn brown and fall off.  Ideas of the tree being root bound started to combine with ideas of fig rust.  Can fig rust happen in NYC?  From what I've read it's not common but can happen.  I decided to wait until the tree went dormant to root prune.

There are no leaves on the tree at all now.  This is not an issue except that every fig tree in my small yard still has leaves.  Most are turning yellow and beginning to fall off, but the leaves are still there.  It's obvious the KB dropped her leaves early.  The limbs and trunk of the tree are healthy.  It produced about 10 beautiful and delicious figs this year (for it's size it should have produced more).  You can't stick your finger into the soil because of the roots.  The tree is about 5 1/2 feet tall from the soil line.  The trunk caliper is about 2".  it has three main branches from the trunk all about 3/4" to 1" thick.  Lots of smaller branches coming from the main branches.  Late in September or early in October I slammed a 1" pipe down into the root mass to the bottom of the pot and pulled about 20 plugs from different locations.  I looked at each plug that was removed and saw roots in each.  Nothing really thick (the thickest was about the size of an iPhone charge cord), but I expected each plug to be completely filled with roots and they were not.  Filled the holes with Fafard 52.

So, does the tree have rust?  Is it root bound?  Both?  How can you tell if the tree is really dormant so it can be root pruned?  Or does it even matter at this point?

Sorry about the picture.  I had good pictures of the leaves from earlier this year but they were accidentally deleted (It figures!).  Had to find other pic from the yard with KB in the background and crop it down.  This is from 09/19/14.  You can see that some of the leaves are yellowing around the edges and turning brown.  Almost all leaves had brown spots at this point, except for a few at the very top.

KB.jpg 



It definitely does sound as though the tree has entered dormancy, perhaps a bit early because of rust.  You will definitely want to root prune and probably top prune some as well.  The usual time to do this is late winter/early Spring (before emerging from dormancy) although you could even do it now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rewton
It definitely does sound as though the tree has entered dormancy, perhaps a bit early because of rust.  You will definitely want to root prune and probably top prune some as well.  The usual time to do this is late winter/early Spring (before emerging from dormancy) although you could even do it now.


Thanks, Steve.  Rust can make a tree go into dormancy early?  Are there any steps I can take now that will help the tree in the spring?  Other than making sure leaves are clear from the ground and treating with copper, is there anything else I can do?

Was reading this thread started by Soni about rust and early dormancy, but I believe she is in GA.  I didn't really think rust could be a problem in the northeast.

Danny, I think that rust can make a tree lose its leaves late in the season and thus trigger dormancy earlier than the tee would typically enter it.  Others further north of me can weigh in but it is my impression that, while the south has more problems with rust, growers in the northeast can get it too, especially in the event that plant material from rust prone areas is brought into a fig collection.

There should be multiple threads on the forum that describe ways to fight rust - fortunately I haven't had a bad enough problem to warrant taking any action.

Hi nycfig,
When you move a figtree from one spot to another, the tree gets shocked, and that alone can explain the leaves dropping early .
I bought 4 trees in September - most likely they came from fig paradise aka the Mediterranean belt, and those are already naked by now - they are the only ones so far to have dropped all leaves.
Those 4 had suffered in their pots at the nurseries, lack of light and lack of proper watering and fertilizing.

The brown stains can be the normal process of leaves preparing to drop, so I wouldn't be concerned at this point.
I wouldn't touch the tree now, as adding new soil will add new nutrients and can trigger new growth. I would rather work on the tree in March or April just before the tree starts to wake up.
That is if you plan to keep her in a pot - if you want to put her in ground just go ahead - my 4 are already in ground - just don't touch the roots as in ground, they will work their way without your help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsfrance
Hi nycfig,
When you move a figtree from one spot to another, the tree gets shocked, and that alone can explain the leaves dropping early .
I bought 4 trees in September - most likely they came from fig paradise aka the Mediterranean belt, and those are already naked by now - they are the only ones so far to have dropped all leaves.
Those 4 had suffered in their pots at the nurseries, lack of light and lack of proper watering and fertilizing.

The brown stains can be the normal process of leaves preparing to drop, so I wouldn't be concerned at this point.
I wouldn't touch the tree now, as adding new soil will add new nutrients and can trigger new growth. I would rather work on the tree in March or April just before the tree starts to wake up.
That is if you plan to keep her in a pot - if you want to put her in ground just go ahead - my 4 are already in ground - just don't touch the roots as in ground, they will work their way without your help.


Thanks.  I never thought of this.  I do plan to keep her in the same pot and was going to root prune this weekend.  I'll wait until late winter or early spring and that will solve my issue of worrying whether or not the tree is dormant.  Are there any steps that I can take now or prepare for just in case the tree does have rust?

Danny

I had rust on one plant last year, this year no rust problems. I recommend spraying the leaves with neem oil spray if you see incipient rust. Also works on gnats.

I am gonna wait til spring to root prune. Just lift it our of the pot and check her out. I find that not all plants have become root bound that quickly in my Bill pots. Take a look first.

  • Rob

A lot of my trees do that too.  I think at least a partial root prune is in order.  Like Rafael says, slide it out of the pot and take a look.  If a bunch of roots are circling, they should be removed.  Now or the spring or any time in between is fine.  As long as you do it when the tree doesn't have a lot of leaves, it will be fine. 

If it's really bad you could do a full root prune.  Also may be time for a larger pot. 

How tall is it?  Can you reach the top?  If not you might want to either prune some of the top or perhaps attempt to bend it towards the horizontal in espalier form.  Just a thought.  Not related to the other issues with yellowing, etc. 

I have about 85 trees in pots, and any that go yellow in august or september I flag with pink construction tape so that I know to root prune and/or up-pot first thing in the spring.  Not good to do it in the summer. 

Other thing is my trees usually send roots down into the ground through the holes in the pot which helps them I think.  So I don't move them all summer once I put them in their place on the south side of the house.

Can the plant be dormant and still have some leaves attached?  Not healthy green leaves but still somewhat green.  Obviously, I am new to figs and appreciate this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafaelissimmo
Danny I had rust on one plant last year, this year no rust problems. I recommend spraying the leaves with neem oil spray if you see incipient rust. Also works on gnats. I am gonna wait til spring to root prune. Just lift it our of the pot and check her out. I find that not all plants have become root bound that quickly in my Bill pots. Take a look first.


I sprayed Neem Oil a few times on the tree and probably could have been more diligent in doing so.  I'll start researching what to do for rust just to be on the safe side.  After reading the posts here I'll wait until late winter to root prune.  In the meantime, I'll prune the top and pull her out of the pot to check under the hood.

I would wait until February and then prune the plant.  No benefit to doing it any sooner.  Most years a few of my plants get rust.  Those plants usually drop their leaves sooner than the others but I consider it a non issue.  The ones I grow on the coast get it less than the ones growing further inland.  I guess it is because of the more wind on the coast.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejp3
I would wait until February and then prune the plant.  


Ed - Root prune, top prune or both?

The brochure from Belleclare says that they used Bordeaux mixture to control rust. I'll  spray our grape vines with it to control black rot next year.

Root prune.  I would take cuttings right before I am ready to root them.  For me now is way too early to even think about starting cuttings. 

I agree with the great info you've been getting. And I feel the same as Ed about starting cuttings now, but you could definetly take a litte off the top when you do your root pruning. Make your cuts above a dormant bud that will grow out away from the center of the tree. Hard to tell from one picture, but you may want to do something to spread the branches after you prune to open the canopy. The tree will get bushier and the all the smaller branches will appreciate not being crowded and shaded.

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