How fast does the grafting heal?

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martino

Registered:1319860373
Posts: 96

Posted 1365335602	Reply with quote #1

Just wondering. If the grafting is successful, just how many days will it take for the 2 parties to fuse together?

pitangadiego

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Posts: 5,447

Posted 1365347051	Reply with quote #2

T-budding citrus, for example, is checked at about 30 days. It all depends. Success probably happens in the time frame for most anything, but you may not be able to tell based on a number of factors. If grafting was done when dormant, you can't really tell until dormancy breaks. Scion can look good (if properly protected) even if the graft was unsuccessful, for quite a while. Scion can also push new growth even if the graft was not successful, just like cuttings push new growth without having roots. When you have good active growth, then you are on the right track. Once the4 grafting is done, you can't "fix it, so just relax and see what happens. __________________ Encanto Farms Nursery http://encantofarms.com http://figs4fun.com http://webebananas.com "pitangadiego" everywhere

martino

Registered:1319860373
Posts: 96

Posted 1365347815	Reply with quote #3

thks, jon. I understand what you mean. I don't mean to ask how long before we know the graft is successfull. i want to sort of understand the science of how fast the 2 plant tissues actually merge woth each other. Do they begin to bond together say like within days? But i guess what you say about factors like dormancy and also weather conditions would matter too.

martino

Registered:1319860373
Posts: 96

Posted 1365375479	Reply with quote #4

Another related question. After grafting, do you need to put a bag over to keep the humidity up. If so, for how long must the bag remain?

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1365378490	Reply with quote #5

I use the Parafilm grafting tape, it seals the moisture in. The buds of the successful graft swell and will break through the Parafilm. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

martino

Registered:1319860373
Posts: 96

Posted 1365378887	Reply with quote #6

Do you mean you wrap up the whole of the new branch or you just wrap up the graft area? I read about having to bag up the whole of new branch.

ADelmanto

Registered:1359774201
Posts: 911

Posted 1365381987	Reply with quote #7

What is the point of grafting? Is there better root stock? Why not just start a whole new tree? __________________ https://www.facebook.com/From-The-Ground-Up-403313193085649/

martino

Registered:1319860373
Posts: 96

Posted 1365429224	Reply with quote #8

I have 3 reasons for grafting. 1. I have limited space and grafting more varieties onto one plant helps me have more varieties over a limited space. 2. If i have one cutting and i am not sure i will succeed in rooting it, i can snip a small portion and graftit to give me 2 chances of rooting. 3. I just like to play. Its a new thing for me and i kind of enjoy seeing a graft take off. :D

pitangadiego

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Registered:1188871011
Posts: 5,447

Posted 1365432966	Reply with quote #9

Martino, greefig has it right. Wrap the entire scion (wedge graft, tongue and groove, etc) in parafilm, except for the actual graft point. This is to keep the moisture in the scion. Use green nursery tape, or other suitable product, to tighten the graft point to increase cambium contact and seal the graft point. Grafting, as Martino has said, has many reasons. T-budding or chip budding only uses one bud, so you get more plants from the same amount of scion. You get a productive plant faster because you already have an established root system. Multiple varieties on one tree. For plants where you have developed rootstocks, you can put the plant variety (fruit, flowers, etc.) on the roots that work in yo9ur soil type. __________________ Encanto Farms Nursery http://encantofarms.com http://figs4fun.com http://webebananas.com "pitangadiego" everywhere

HarveyC

Registered:1212433117
Posts: 3,294

Posted 1365437403	Reply with quote #10

I use a grafting rubber band over the union and then cover that with Parafilm. Both the rubber band and Parafilm will break in a couple of months or so and not cause any girdling nor require further maintenance. One good example of why grafting is useful: I rooted two cuttings of Black Madeira but both later died after being potted up. I grafted one piece of Black Madeira onto a potted Brown Turkey and it is growing very well. __________________ Harvey - Correia Farms Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14 http://www.figaholics.com https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,718

Posted 1365438059	Reply with quote #11

I have several grafting questions. I have a white nectarine that is about 6-7 years old now, it was mislabeled as an Elberta peach. You all have encouraged me to graft Elberta onto it. I want to keep some of the white nectarine though because it ripens fruit at least a month ahead of the Elberta. I also have a Lapins cherry I planted last year that I was thinking about grafting a Tehranivee to as well. 1) Is it OK to graft when you may still experience freezing temps? We are supposed to get a blizzard tonight/tomorrow. Tomorrow nites lows are supposed to be ~15 F. 2) The white nectarine is pruned to an open vase style and has 6-7 scaffold braches that are between 1.5-3" in diameter. All distributed for good light reception(I may remove a couple smaller branches eventually but that's a different story). I am thinking of doing cleft grafts on 2-3 of them this year. How long does it take for a cleft graft to become productive? My guess would be small harvest at 2 years, and game-on after that. The base of this tree is ~5-6". 3) If doing a cleft graft. After removing the wedge and using some twine on the stump to help make sure the scions is held tightly in the cleft. I can use low melt wax to seal the cleft right? And instead of wrapping the scion in parafilm, can I just paint it with the low melt wax also? I have low melt wax on hand, I would have to order the parafilm, and would like to do this later this week or even Saturday after the snow melts. 4) Sort of an extension of #3. The Cherry graft would be a splice type graft. I would use the green nursery tape to tie the pieces together, but same as above..could I just paint the union and scion with low temp wax after securing with green tape? __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

HarveyC

Registered:1212433117
Posts: 3,294

Posted 1365461889	Reply with quote #12

I would not graft if you are still experiencing freezing temperatures. The speed at which graft unions callus is large a function of temperatures and you should wait until you've got warmer weather. I don't know the preferred temperatures for peach (prunus), but I think minimum temperatures in mid-40s would be more suitable. I don't know exactly what's in low temp wax. If it has petroleum products in it, that might be a problem. If it's meant for grafting, that should be fine. By the way, for a cleft graft I usually do not remove the wedge in the stock. I just spread it open. Sometimes scions end up with a pretty sharp angle due to limited material, etc. and make less contact. If it's more than what I consider acceptable, then I'll remove some of the stock wedge. __________________ Harvey - Correia Farms Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14 http://www.figaholics.com https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics

martino

Registered:1319860373
Posts: 96

Posted 1365464771	Reply with quote #13

Thanks, guys.

pitangadiego

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Registered:1188871011
Posts: 5,447

Posted 1365471475	Reply with quote #14

Grafting should be done, generally, when the tree is actively growing, for best results. It you still have freezing temps, it is probably not actively growing. Definitely would not graft when temps are below freezing as you are likely to kill the scion wood. For 2" wood, you should consider a bark graft. See here for one resource. A chip bud might be a possible choice, as well. Wedge grafting is usually done by spreading the two halves of the rootstock with the wedge of scion being grafted. That will be rather difficult with a 2" limb, and you risk splitting branch and causing it to be weak. __________________ Encanto Farms Nursery http://encantofarms.com http://figs4fun.com http://webebananas.com "pitangadiego" everywhere

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,718

Posted 1365475526	Reply with quote #15

Thanks John, thanks Harvey! My wax is soybean wax. It's the same wax I use to seal my mushroom plug spawn for inoculating logs. It's also what I used on my cuttings. __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1365477608	Reply with quote #16

Since we have an active grafting discussion here, what kind of grafting (besides bug and chip) can be done when a scion has a larger diameter than a rootstock? I have a Marseilles Vs black and an Adriatic cuttings that are about 1/8-1/4" thicker than my wild fig branches. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

martino

Registered:1319860373
Posts: 96

Posted 1365480507	Reply with quote #17

What sealant or wax do you guys use? I am making do with whatever i can find at home now which is candle wax? I hope that is ok? What about bee wax? I find them rather affordable on ebay?

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,718

Posted 1365499575	Reply with quote #18

I've read bee's wax is supposed to work good and may have some fungicidal properties. __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

martino

Registered:1319860373
Posts: 96

Posted 1365507845	Reply with quote #19

Thks, Calvin.

pitangadiego

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Registered:1188871011
Posts: 5,447

Posted 1365533535	Reply with quote #20

Doc Farwell's is an option. __________________ Encanto Farms Nursery http://encantofarms.com http://figs4fun.com http://webebananas.com "pitangadiego" everywhere

martino

Registered:1319860373
Posts: 96

Posted 1365547097	Reply with quote #21

Thks, Jon.

bada_bing

Registered:1352361905
Posts: 59

Posted 1365553131	Reply with quote #22

If you don't have any store bought grafting sealer, the wax used in toliet bowl gasket rings works very well and is available at any hardware store. It is softer than straight beeswax. It needs to be warm to spread, but works as well as any intended for purpose formulation. __________________ bada_bing in Tucson, zone 9a or at work in Prudhoe bay, I don't think the zones go that low My in ground trees: VdB, Panache My potted figs : Vista, RdB, Strawberry verte, Atreano, Black Madeira Tissue culture plants: Hardy Chicago, "Blue" Ischia, Desert King, LSU Purple, Kadota, Celeste Hope to find: CdDx, Maltese Beauty, BlacK Ischia, desert adapted figs

pitangadiego

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Registered:1188871011
Posts: 5,447

Posted 1365606511	Reply with quote #23

greenfig, When the situation is opposite and the scion is smaller, you can wedge graft in one of two ways: 1) offset the scion to one side so that you have cambium contact on one side only, or 2) make the "split" in the rootstock off-center so that it is the same width as the scion wedge. In your case, either would work, but in reverse. It will be ugly, but in time it won't make any difference. You could also use the same two solutions in doing a saddle graft, which is an upside down wedge graft. I would be inclined to try an offset saddle graft, or off-center saddle graft. __________________ Encanto Farms Nursery http://encantofarms.com http://figs4fun.com http://webebananas.com "pitangadiego" everywhere

martino

Registered:1319860373
Posts: 96

Posted 1365637136	Reply with quote #24

Thanks, bada. However, I do wonder if the wax used for the toilet bowl may have chemicals added that may not be friendly to the plants?

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