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How low can I prune?

Charles--cool, I have a baby Laturella and a Negronne that haven't produced yet.  I haven't heard of Neveralla or Green Ischia, so I'll have to look into those.  I also have black spanish, Vern's Brown Turkey, Conadria, Atreano, Peter's Honey,  Stella, and a mystery tree from Death Valley.  They're all very young, but I've had Peter's Honey and Stella for 3.5 years, and they've produced virtually  nothing--some of smaller trees of different variety have done much better.  Even now between them they've got less than 5 figs starting.  Most are in pots, and I don't have much room, so I'm testing them out for a few years...the ones that don't produce well are going to get culled.  I know I have to give them time though. 

jrdewhirst--thanks, I"ll take a look at those varieties as well.

If you've had a fig tree for 3+ years and you've gotten no figs, something is wrong.  I really don't mean to be critical, but I also don't want you to waste years failing to grow good figs if there's a problem that can be easily fixed.

Maybe it's your climate.  But I'd also have to ask: Do the plants get good sun?  Are they well watered, at least during peak growing season (April -July)?  Are they reasonably well fertilized?  And maybe most critically, are the pots big enough, e.g., 5g or bigger (though with good water and fertilizer even a small pot can perform well)?

For comparison, RI is not exactly heaven for figs, climate-wise.  But as a rule here, a new cutting can grow to 3-4' (sometimes 6') in its 1st year and you have to pinch off figs so that the tree can concentrate on vegetative growth.  I can't vouch for your varieties, but last year I got ripe figs off 1st year cuttings of a variety of Mt Etnas, Nero 600M, Emerald Strawberry, Fico Nera Duemane.  This year my cuttings of Improved Celeste, started in December, are 2-3' high and wide; and I've been pulling baby figs off them for months.  Even Black Madeira, started in late January, has tiny figs.  So before you cull a variety, re-check the growing environment.

FWIW, your in-ground DK seems to be doing very well.  So ask yourself why the potted varieties aren't doing as well.  What's different?  In particular, are the potted figs getting as much water and the in-ground fig?

They get good sun, lots of water, fish fertilizer every month, and I repot them every season so they have lots of room.  They get the same treatment and location as my other potted figs, so it is weird.  The trees are growing well and are large.  The stella actually had 2 really big branches that I air layered last year so that I could have them branch closer to the ground.  Now that I think about it, that one did have quite a few figs in the fall, but none of them came anywhere near ripening before winter.  Maybe that one just doesn't do a good breba crop, which is really what I need out here?

  • ricky
  • · Edited

I live at PNW as well, our cool summer is big problem for fig tree,  I have seen many fig trees here, Figs do not ripening at fall or not sweet, My brother has a fig tree for 20 years with bland breba figs, Last year, weather was warmer, it was able to ripening its main crop in 20 year, it was delicious, my point is that, Do you think that it is smart to wait for 20 years for sweet figs?

Here are cuttings from " Charles" last year both from potted fig tree and in gorund , They has many great looking breba, good tree for our area.
(Do not prune your tree at early spring, it reduces breba fig and grows more new branches)
(Do not uppot them at early spring before sprouts, it reduces breba fig as well, roots wake up first, it sucks young tree limited stored energy to grow more roots instead of fig)

[Desert_King_Breba_1] 
Same fig tree, it is 2nd branch, Top tip was eated by squirrel at early spring, it grows lots of new branches
[Desert_king_breba_2] 
[Desert_king_breba3] 



Real nice pics! Wonderful testimony on Desert King brebas in our PNW.
I sent you cuttings that had energy packed terminal buds that were eager to "fig out."  
So happy for you!

Amanda,

My two cents worth:  Your problem getting Breba production is all in how you prune your Figs!  Brebas are formed only on the previous season's wood, and most Brebas form on the tip half of that wood.  Your Desert King photos appear to show all branches that grew in 2016 pruned back to less than half of their length, hence NO or very few Brebas!  See the pruning video on Ben's site:
http://seattlegardenfruit.blogspot.com/2017/04/how-to-prune-desert-king-fig-for-max.html
The only 1-year old branches Linda shortened were ones that had minor tip die-back.

No need for Winter protection in your climate, so don't baby them.

Also, if it were me, I would toss the Peter's Honey as it requires too much heat to reliably produce Brebas in your climate.  Select varieties that reliably produce a good Breba crop, and change your pruning habits.

Happy Growing,   kiwibob, Seattle

Yeah, I definitely am not interested in having a tree that only gives good figs every 20 years!  I did not know that about not uppotting or pruning in the early spring.  I did prune mine in early spring, but I think it was probably a good thing since I am trying to promote branching and develop the structure of these baby trees...more important than fig production at this point.  I was just getting ready to uppot some of them.  They're not rootbound, but I figured most of them could use more growing room.  Is now an OK time to do this?  I've already got full sized leaves and mini brebas going on most of them.  And I think root growth is probably more important than fig growth at this time as well.  Do you agree?

IMO, you can up-pot anytime so long as you don't badly disturb the roots.  Given more space for roots, the tree may briefly focus its energy there, so vegetative growth and fruit may be temporarily discouraged or delayed.  But I agree with you that growing out the roots is Job #1.

Honestly I see no reason to up-pot in baby steps.  My cuttings started in December / January are in 5g pots by late March / April.  Given an adequate supply of big enough pots, I plan to move the 1st year cuttings to 10-15g pots as soon as possible.

But I remain concerned about something more fundamental -- rate of growth.  How are your potted trees not root bound?  Once my new cuttings show good roots in a cup, they typically fill a 1.5 g pot within a month or so, then a 5 g pot within a couple months after that, then definitely a 10 g pot by the end of their first summer.  

Like I said, I'm not really familiar with your varieties, other than DK.  But my reading notes (based on comments by others) led me to avoid Stella / Dalmatie as a weak grower.  There aren't many varieties that I decided not to grow based on feedback from others, but this is one.

  • ricky
  • · Edited

Hi, Charles, Those "Desert king" are from your cuttings, They are great.

Amanda, As long as you know what you are doing, It is fine, your have a beautiful looking fig tree.

I guess that early spring fig tree pruning,  it suppress breba crop or encourage new branches/ main crop on that pruned branch.

I agree with Charles that " Negronne" grows well in our area, It is 24" tall fig tree from last year tiny toothpick size cutting
[Negonne_fig_tree_2017_May_11] 

This cold winter, due to micro climate of cold wind, It top kill all in ground fig trees
Mother nature prune my latarulla, no breba at all, I am hoping that it grows some main crop later
[lattura_2017_top_killed_may_11] 











jrdewhirst, I've had to spend the last few days, so many hours, trying to untangle my fig mislabeling disaster.  Thought I'd gotten it taken care of in the fall, but it just became apparent that they were still wrong.  Also, as I pulled out some plants to inspect the roots, I could tell that I had repotted some of them in the fall.  I'm now keeping prolific notes on everything.  In short, I'm not worried about growth.  But I am worried about fig production, and I think this might be Stella's last year, sadly since I went to the trouble of air layering her last year.  Not a single breba.  I've got 3 Conadrias (air layered 2 branches last year), and I do have 2 figs on one right now.  So I may give that one 2 years.  Peter's Honey I think I'll move to the South side of the house (all other containers are west facing).  Maybe that will help its figs ripen.  I'll give it another few years.  I feel like it may have produced a couple that I've forgotten about.  Again, I have up till now been a terrible documentarian.  My air layered container Desert King is doing just as well as the in ground DK--this is one of the best varieties to grow in the PNW.  Everything else was kind of a crap-shoot....most I bought because they had them at local nurseries (including One Green World), and I hoped that meant they would grow well here.  Lattarula and Atreano are also supposed to do well here, and indeed my containers of both young plants already have plenty of brebas.  Now I"m going to get a Neverella at Charles' suggestion.   I'd like to try a Grantham's Royal, but getting my hands on one will be the problem.  Anyway, thanks for your input!

Kiwibob, I intentionally pruned that DK down knowing I'd lose a lot of brebas.  I'm more interested in developing the structure this year.  And probably next.  I'm going to try Peter's Honey on a south facing wall (instead of West where it lived last year).  Where I live south of Portland, it's warmer than it gets in Seattle, so maybe I can pull it off.  I'll give it a couple years before I discard it.  I'll probably toss my Stellas at the end of the season though, unless they manage to ripen something--lots of unripe figs last year, no brebas.  Conadria...we'll see, I'll give it one or two years maybe.  Getting a Neverella that should do well in our climate, and if you have any leads on a Grantham's Royal, please let me know!  :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aldaigle
But I am worried about fig production


I'm fairly new at this and still learning too.  One thing that seems apparent is that breba production may depend on the age and size of the tree.  For example, I have a 1-yr-old cutting of Laradek's EBT.  English Brown Turkeys have a reputation for great breba production.  My tiny little tree (~54" of branches) started out with 28 breba buds -- basically one at almost every leaf node.  At this point, there are 2 healthy-looking brebas.  The rest dropped.  This doesn't surprise me -- I never expected a tiny tree to ripen 28 good brebas.  On the other hand, I do expect more than 2 brebas next year.

Other varieties / trees did something similar but on a smaller scale.  For example, LSU Gold had 3-5 breba buds on each 6-8" branch.  Now those are whittled down to 0-2 each.  

I think the trees are adjusting the crop load to their resources.  Presumably, older potted trees with more roots and bigger branches would be able to support more fruit.  In-ground trees with extensive root systems should support the most, if properly pruned.

Age and size--that's the variable that seems a little tricky.  I've had Stella for 3.5 years, it's grown really well, but not ripened any figs.  Charles says that his current best producer took 10 years before producing anything!  How to know when to quit and move on??  I'll be sure to do more thorough researching before tossing anything out.  

That is a bummer to lose 26 brebas, even if you're expecting it.  I accidentally knocked off one mine today...aagh.  I have 46 brebas between my 14 trees at this point, and probably won't get too many more.  Every one counts at this stage!

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