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I have a cutting problem.(Too many) and need advice

UPDATE: See my post further down for what method I went with!



As you can see in the video, I have a lot of cuttings to deal with and need advice on what is the best way to root this many cuttings at once and ASAP.  It is almost May, after all.

Early in the year, I attempted the 3-cup method and failed miserably.  I had about a 80% failure rate.

Any supplies needed, I can probably get. I have rooting gel and coco coir already.

Here is the complete list of cuttings: 


in no particular order  
(^ = duplicate variety)


Petite Negri    
x2

Mare de Deu   x2

Atreano Gold  x1

Conandria      x2

Kadota          x2

Hollier          x2

Mary Lane     x3

Figo Branca   x3

^Marseille VS Black   x2

Violet De Bourdeaux   x2

Ronde De Bordeaux    x2

Molla Vermellax1

U. Abruzzi            x3

U. Somerset            x3

U. Natelina BI            x3

U. Purple Portugesex3

U. Italian Yellow Westfield   x3

U. Italian Yellow BI            x3

U. Italian Yellow II             x3

U. Texas Blue Giant            x3

U. Greek Cephalonia           x4

U. S. Plainfield                   x4

U. Orangeburg                   x3

U. Yellow Portugese            x3

Brunswick                         x3

Danny’s Delight                  x3

Negronne                          x3

Paradiso                            x3

^Patrick Super Giant           x3

^Sal’s Corleone                  x4

Sweet George                    x4

Trojano C                          x3

Texas Everbearing              x3

U. Carini RG                      x3

U. Manalapan Red              x3

U. Naples Dark                  x3

U. Prosciutto                     x3

Gino’s Black                      x3

Verdal Longue                   x2

Lyndhurst White                x1

^Sal’s Corleone                x2

^Italian Honey                 x2

U. NJ Red                        x2

JH Adriatic                       x1

FiggyFrank's Carini          x2

^Marseilles Black VS       x2

Alma                             x3

White Marseilles              x2

O’Rourke Improved Celeste x2

Strawberry Verte            x1

LSU Tiger         x2

^Italian Honey  x1

California Brown Turkey  x1

Salce  x1

Nero 600m   x2

Latarolla    x2

nycfig's U. Sweet Diana x6 MOLD

Adriatic x2

Afghan-E  x2

Algerian   x2

Armenian x2

Unknown Owensboro  x2

Trojano Calabrese      x2

Unk. Green Italian      x2

I love Chicken of the Woods, they are so easy to spot and the haul is usually so big I've never tried growing them but it would be nice to have more close by since they seem to fruit at random times and I miss them sometimes...

firstly you should unwrap and evaluate all those suckers, if some seem dry soak them in a bag of water overnight. Trim them to just below the bottom node (through the bottom of the leaf scar) and optionally a half inch above the top node. If the wood or cambium is discolored you probably want take off another node to get to healthy wood, or keep them where you can watch them cosely cause they will probably sprout fuzz.

The best way to get that many cuttings going is to use plastic tubs roughly the width of the length of your cuttings to layer them in sideways with their bottom ends even with each other to one side. The coir should be moist but not wet at all, it needs to be fluffy with air. Get one brick and add half as much hot water as it says on the package, wait a couple hours then break up enough dry stuff to mix with the wet stuff to make it nice and then measure how much water it takes to get the little bit of dry stuff nice also. Now you know how much water to use, you will still have to break some up by hand but it is easier than squeezing the excess water out. Different brands and types need more or less so I won't tell you how much I use. Light fertilizer in the water is optional, I like Botanicare Pro Grow and seaweed extract for that.

Now you got your lasagna of trimmed and hydrated cuttings so put them someplace that is about 75 degrees. Since you have so many cuttings in there you want to check them often so the roots do not get congested and the callus tissue does not run out of oxygen. So leave them for 10-14 days and then begin checking them by tilting the tub and gently shaking the coir off of the bottom ends. You will need another tub to put the coir, if none in the top row have rooted just keep tilting and shaking and removing coir/rooted cuttings until you have looked at all of the ends and they get a breath of fresh air. If you want to give the tops too (it helps) tilt them the other way after you refill the coir. After that you want to check them once a week at least, more often if they are warmer than 75. I like to get them out when I see good callus and a flared end with cracks that roots will soon emerge from, or tiny roots. This way you are only potting cuttings that developing and not wasting space on the ones that are going to fail anyway. If you want to see lots of roots first (you will break them!) space them far enough apart or do something else.

I wrap the top 2/3 in parafilm at some point before they get potted. Use potting mix that is somewhere between wet and moist, but nowhere near soaked, 2 nodes below the soil line and the base of the cutting above the middle of the container, mound the soil on top and firm to help support the cutting. Do not water them in, mist the surface of the potting soil semi daily if it looks like the top is drying fast. If they have closed buds hooray! you can give those guys some sun right away so the leaves emerge and adjust to the high light, if the buds opened already in the tub you need to put them someplace shady and fairly humid for 2 weeks or so to let that growth harden off first. 

I'd use 1-3 gallon fabric containers outside to avoid watering issues, rain disasters and such. I've experimented with rooting hormone but find it completely unnecessary or even counter productive.

  • aaa

i started about 110 desert king cuttings a few months ago
with about 80% success rate.

i started another  100 or so d/king cuttings a few weeks ago
and am expecting the same success rate.

the problem with starting so many cuttings is not only the
hassle of starting them in pots,
but the hours upon hours of repoting later.

so heres what i do.
get the final growing pot ready with moistened soil
cut the bottom off a 2 litre soda bottle
poke a couple of small holes near the top
grab a cutting, shove it in the soil
cover with bottle, with its cap on
record date and ignor for a couple of months.
if the  weather is going to be hot i mulch the top of the soil.

In the year where I had dozens of cuttings I found that I had success using Root Riot cubes in 72 cell trays with a tall humidity dome.  Each cutting grew (or not) on its own so I didn't need to worry about roots getting tangled or failing to see if something had rooted soon enough.  I had very little loss to rot or mold.

Using the 72 cell tray allowed me to get a lot of density - they are all really close and (obviously, since it's math) 3 trays allowed me to grow 216 cuttings in a really small space.  The same density was also helpful in keeping the humidity up - I found that as the tray became depleted (cuttings were taken out and potted up) the remaining cubes would dry out faster.

Downside - using the humidity dome required me to gradually adjust he humidity as cuttings came out of the trays.  Lots had great leaves/light roots and died from shock or other mal-adjustment after being removed.

I'm presently using a cloner (search my username for posts with pictures).  I had a lot of success with my cuttings and never had to harden off/adjust humidity when I potted them up.  Of all that rooted I only lost 2.  I'm finding that the cloner isn't great for really small cuttings; some of my LSU Purple had 3" of growth after 10 days, however.

My problem now is that I have too many dupes which rooted that I'll have to give away (which is a great problem to have).

If you have the time and the few bucks to build a cloner I would definitely experiment.  Its downside is space - I made my hole spacing far more generous than I could/should have - I could have fit a lot more cuttings.  Even with tight spacing it is still much, much less practical than Root Riot cubes in 72 cell trays for a given space (both horizontal and vertical).  One also has to worry about leaks and punctures (that was fun!) and mold can be an issue.

Good luck.


Andrew

Where did you acquire so many cuttings?

Ok heres you answer your been looking for !!!
1 cut the,bottoms out of as many water bottles that you need
2 fill the tub 1/3 full of equal parts of miracle grow seed starting mix & perlite
DO NOT ADD Water
3 fill water bottles with same mixture and push down in tub lining all of them up
4 mark all cuttings with a white paint pen using a letter (A) for the 1st variety. And mark it on tub .. do this with all your varieties. Line up your bottles as beat as possible
5 push cutting into specific letter that pertains to your letter system.
6 water with a extra water bottle. Dont be afraid to wrt it good because extra water goes into the soil in tub
7 put a peice of glass or hard plastic over top
8 put a 4 foot florescent light on top
9 slide cover over,so there is a 2 inch or less crack to let excess,heat out and control humility after you see roots. Open lid even mor . Then finally remove lid. For less cuttings use a 2 gallon pot like i did here and put in tub as above described
Hers some pictures. Enjoy.

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Nice Richie, DIY Deep pots

Takes to much room using other pots. Can root 30 to 50 cuttings in a tub using this method

That's great, Richie!  Did you invent that?

I get a Sterlite plastic box tall enough to stand the cuttings up in with at least 1-2" to spare. No lid is needed and any brand or plastic container will work.  I drill holes at the bottom of all sides an inch or 2 apart for drainage.  I also get a container that's at least 10" deeper and 1' longer than the one I drilled holes in that can hold water.

I get agricultural grade perlite #3 and #4.  I rinse these in a big trash can so the dust sinks and I scoop out just the big stuff and have that ready.

I scrape my cuttings near the bottom on opposite sides.  I make a 1 - 2" scrape along the long axis of the cutting through the bark so the green shows through.  I paint each scrape with clonex.  The clonex and even the scrape aren't completely necessary but it speeds the process and helps the cuttings root at about the same time.  

I fill the Sterlite container 1/3rd full with the perlite, place the cuttings in standing up at least 1-2" above the bottom then fill the Sterlite with perlite up to the top of the cuttings.  Keep alll the cutting tops at about the same level because if a top is under the perlite it has a greater chance of rotting.So tall cuttings go in first and if there are shorter cuttings I'lll fill it up to 2/3rds full, add the shorter ones then top it off.  I'l sprinkle a little bit of peat moss over the top for some organic acids.

After 3 weeks I fill the bigger container with water while the Sterlite pot sits inside.  As the water slowly rises The perlite will float up, taking the cuttings with it.  As the perlite goes over the top of the Sterlite scoop it out.  As rooted cuttings emerge pull them out, supporting roots and wood, turn them upside down so the excess perlite can fall off and pot them up.  80 - 90% are rooted and the rest go back to a similar medium.

Here's a photo of a run I did in a plastic plant pot.  At the 3 week mark it was raining a lot so they waited extra time.  That risks root rot so I hate to leave them in longer.

fig cuttings at 4 weeks.jpg 

And then as soon as I could I put that pot into a large plastic trash can and sprayed the water on the perlite.  Then when the pot started to float I held it down and the perlite started to float out of the pot.  As the perlite spilled out of the pot and floated on the water in the trash can I scooped it out into a waiting pot below.  When enough perlite is gone the cuttings float free.

fig cuttings floated out.jpg 


Nice idea bob. Wish i could find awsome perlite like that. All i can get is the crappy kind : (
The idea i did came from a friend that propagates plumeria's. He uses this technique for all types of cuttings. He is not into forums or figs. He has a huge fig tree in his yard. He said it came with the house. Lol. IT looks about 20 years old. Think its a lsu purple. Have seen ripe friut. He says it has a white top and black bottom of the fig. No breba crop. I just checked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberfarmer
Where did you acquire so many cuttings?


I bought every single cutting from generous people on this very forum!

Wow, everyone! You have all given me some great ideas and suggestions.  I'm going to plan and decide what to do, then update this thread!

With that many, I would probably plant them straight into the ground if you have the space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don_sanders
With that many, I would probably plant them straight into the ground if you have the space.


If that would work, I would do it. I have the space.  I'm just afraid that sticking them in the ground is less of a sure thing than pampering them indoors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don_sanders
With that many, I would probably plant them straight into the ground if you have the space.

Never Tried straight in ground before. Was afraid! !
What if they rot !! ; ) i done it with a huge cutting with success. Still growing now.

Good idea Don. I've not done very much direct rooting but it seems foolproof here in a spot with good soil. mulch, morning sun and normal rainfall. Full sun has failed for me just because the tilled soil dried too fast I think. They do direct plant in Italy though...

May have to try this. Have alot of cuttings in the figgerator. The more i root the more the mailman brings me. Lol.

I do believe many of those varieties look familiar.

Use Coco coir damp but not wet. Bundle each variety with a rubber band and stick a label stick in each bundle. Wet the bundles in regular water and bury all the bundles in the coir in as many tubs as you need. Stick them in the closet for a week. Check them all to see if any are ready to be potted up every day after a week. Pot up by variety in 50/50 moistened Pro Mix HP and Pine Bark Fines. (I bury mine 75-90% deep but do whatever you want). I do water mine in a little and skip the humidity dome. 135 pots this year 95% success.

BTW I hate Root Riot. I tried them this year. They rooted the cuttings great, but when you pot up the cuttings and water the pots, the RR hold too much water and rot the root ball. Not a good idea for figs.

Same problem I had with root riot,

Quote:
Originally Posted by don_sanders
With that many, I would probably plant them straight into the ground if you have the space.

I've tried a few straight in the ground and they all failed. Some varieties are so vigorous and root so easily that anything would work for them, like Black Mission. Especially if they are fresh off the tree. That's possibly why BM was so popular here at one time.  
If they've been sitting around in plastic bags and are average rooters, they might need a little pampering.     

You could do an auction for 1 or 2 of each of the ones you have 3 or 4 of and relieve yourself of a good many.  Good luck with them.

Water will settle a really well aerated mix fine, if it is mostly peat though I like to wait until it has lightened in weight considerably. I think it locks in air spaces for the roots better, it seems like less perlite floats out also. In the summer I switch to a bark based mix and water new cuttings almost every day if it is hot. It is tough to give advice!

If I had that many at this time of year I would use the tree-pot method:

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/starting-figs-in-promix-6692131?&trail=50

If it is warm enough where you are you could start these outdoors in a shady area protected from rain.  In that post Harvey described using promix but I have had excellent results with 5-1-1-1 mix (pine fines/peat/perlite/oil dry) in the tree pots.  You want a fast draining mix.

Hi,
With that many, you probably want to select some to baby more and the others to baby less.
If you have a greenhouse, I would put them in 1 or 2  gallon pots (one pot per variety - use potting medium from the nurseries) and let them root in the greenhouse.
You could root some directly in the ground too. Till the area and add some potting medium from the nurseries on top . Insert the cuttings with an angle, not flat and not straight .
Try to put 2/3 of the cutting under the dirt. Outside in the ground, keep the area watered.
The greenhouse will definitively help them root easier . If they want to root they'll do, if they already have decided to not root, whatever you do ... They won't ...
So don't stress too much ... But start them now, don't wait for heat waves to come in .
With fresh cuttings I would use 3 weeks in a bottle of water first ( keep changing the water every over day). With dormant cuttings I wouldn't use the 3 weeks in water... But it could help.
So you could use one method for a cutting in each variety .
Did I mention that you should label the cuttings before you lose the name ...Good luck !

Richie, Nice method!

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  • Sas

You could purchase somthing like this product https://www.stuewe.com/products/minitreepots.php
With some trays. I believe that you will be able to fit 16 MT49 pots per tray. I use osmosis action by placing trays in a container filled with 1/3 the height with water to keep moist and in the shade outside on my porch. In the beginning, I do not water from above. Some cuttings are simply not viable no matter what you do.
I've tried inserting cuttings from the same source next to each other in an SIP and cover with a plastic dome in shade. Some will make and some will not.
I use a moisture control potting mix. When I see active growth watering from above becomes possible. You could keep in pot for a whole season if you wish.
I have some figs that have been in such container for two years now, but they won't grow much.

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