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i258 and Lampeira Preta main

Yes, that seems to be him.  I may have even met him in 2001 at a national chestnut conference in Marradi, might look through some old photos for the fun of it.  But, since he lost his papers, there's likely not much help he can provide.

I'll go ahead and email him anyways just to see if I can get lucky.  Thanks!

Beautiful figs Greenfig thanks for sharirg!

I didn't want to have to do it.  But I can't help adding I258 to my wish list.

Tyler, great job finding Giorgio's contact info! 

The web site says "Associazione Amici del castagno di Rocca di Papa"
loosely translated "association of friends of the chestnut fortress of the pope"

Does that mean the fig came from one of the Pope's orchards? ....LOL


A great detective work, guys!!

Harvey, you say that " he moved to Rome and at that time he took cuttings of the varieties he considered to be unique. "

For some reason i258 and maybe i395 became popular and maybe we can say, unique.
How about the other numbered figs, what is special about them?
Have they lost something over time?

Thanks Igor for sharing the pictures of the delicious looking figs. Hope your fig crop did okay in the rain storm today. 
What if the name of the I 258 turns out to be another Paradiso -to add to the confusion already surrounding this name? Aren't half the fig varieties in Italy named Paradiso? Or if it was growing in the Pope's orchard, Paradiso di Papa? Just speculating.....

Thanks for asking, Mara!
It was super nice to have the rain, it woke me up around 4:30 am by some loud banging and me, as a true figaholic, went outside to move the little guys out of the rain's way. I was lucky that no neighbors saw me half naked in the middle of the night running with pots, lol! I am sure somebody would get really concerned and call the authorities :)

As far as the name, I do not really care what it turns out to be , it is just pure fun just trying to find out.
And whoever gets the name first, will have the power to say Yes, it is another Paradiso Nero, or be totally streetwise and pretend that the answer cannot be found. :)

I don't have reason to believe any of the figs were collected from the pope's orchard.  Pino's comment comes from a site in relationship to more recent work that Dr. Giorgio has done with chestnuts (the gall wasp, by the way, accidentally introduced into Italy from China, has decimated the chestnut crop in recent years).  I was told that he collected the figs from around southern Italy and that many figs were found to be the same.  It is my understanding that the ones that he took with him to Rome were ones he found unique, such as being different from others (no indication of being good or bad).

Absolutely true Harvey! 
I was just making light of that fact and raised what I thought was an amusing question.

Although anything is possible given there have been 266 Pope's with who knows how many residence/castles/orchards in Italy through the years.  The current Pope has 8 residences around Italy. 

I believe the pope's true purpose of coming to the USA next week is to check out my Italian-numbered fig varieties! :)

Okay, more seriously.... I just received a reply from someone connected to a chestnut group who is very good friends with Dr. Grassi and I was told they would give him my contact information so that he could write me directly. :)  There is still the likelihood that he never found his papers or matched up IDs for the figs in his collection, but we can hope!

That's a good one Harvey!  I wouldn't be surprised since he has been known to go wandering around in Rome looking for that delicious Roman thin crust pizza.

But seriously if Dr.Grassi can remember even the location where he discovered it I am sure there is someone adventurous enough to go see if they can find the mother tree.  i.e. me since it may be the only way to get this variety into Canada..lol
 

No contact made yet, still waiting.

Pino, I am guessing that Dr. Grassi had collected at least 358 figs from numerous locations (358 is the highest numbered fig I am aware of, 88 being the lowest) and these were collected prior to the mid-1980s.  It seems highly unlikely that he'd remember where he got fig #258 from, etc.  He may remember some of the people that he collected figs from but many of those people are probably no longer alive.  Maybe someone came across his papers at some point since the mid 1980s and sent them to him.  Maybe he's been visited by other fig collectors who helped ID his figs.  Hoping for something but not getting my hopes up too much.

Harvey
Sounds like Dr Grassi was an avid fig collector hobbyist.  Unfortunately no internet in those days and probably no e-records.
You have put in a great effort on this!
Hopefully someone gets back to you.  If not maybe some one some where will recognize the fig since it is becoming very popular and give an idea on where it originated and maybe the original name.
 

Caserta is just south of the Roman province of Lazio, Caserta is famous for its Buffalo Mozzarella, it is Southern Italy, yes, but really just the beginning of Campania (Naples). Lou Pezzuti is not too far from there. Probably close to the place of origin of the Atreano fig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pino
Harvey
Sounds like Dr Grassi was an avid fig collector hobbyist.  Unfortunately no internet in those days and probably no e-records.
You have put in a great effort on this!
Hopefully someone gets back to you.  If not maybe some one some where will recognize the fig since it is becoming very popular and give an idea on where it originated and maybe the original name.
 


Pino, Dr. Grassi is a published researcher and there are publications by him on the subject of figs, including Il Fico (128 pages).  I believe it is described as a practical handbook on fig growing (relying on Google translation of citation).  Doing a Google search of "giorgio grassi ficus carica" gives numerous results.

No word back yet from Dr. Grassi....waiting

Thanks Harvey, I see now!

Sounds like he is a well known researcher and expert on figs and chestnuts. 
Looks like he is only 74 was born in the northen Italy but worked and studied figs in  Southern Italy; Cosenza, Calabria for a long time.  Cosenza is the big fig producer in Italy.
As you mentioned he has published several papers I managed to download 2 of his publications;  
Manuale Pratico di Coltivazione e trasformazione dei FICHI DI COSENZA
and also Dottato di Cosenza.
But his bigger work "il fico" seems to be hardcopy only in various Italian libraries.  Although Google Books has an entry for it.

In my searches I also came up with the fact that one of his publications was already posted here and Brent did a great job translating it for us!  (sorry, this contains nothing about Italian 258)

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=6222716

Harvey, you missed IT 376 and IT 395 in your count of 358 possible figs that Dr. Grassii collected. Surely you have at least IT 376 in your collection (pretty sure you don't have IT 395 per a prior conversation we had).

This has been discussed elsewhere recently, but it appears that IT 395 and Longue d'Aout may be related or synonymous. I've got both and there are definitely similarities. My Ld'A is a couple years older than than my IT 395 and finished ripening its figs last week while IT 305 has yet to ripen even one this season, though I did get two from it last year, my first from this 3rd year tree, and they did resemble Ld'A, though longer and skinnier. My IT 395 also set a much larger crop this year. Nothing I've observed thus far has me leaning one way or the other regarding their relationship.

Thanks for reminding me, Neil.  Forgot about those!

Any update Harvey on contacting Dr.Grassii?

Nope. Will follow-up when I can.

Interesting research by Dr Grassii!

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