On first joining this forum (May 2012), With Zero experience growing figs,I was surprised at FMV (FMD) infected plants being traded and propagated. I thought this contrary to good horticultural practice. As a lifelong gardener, I usually destroy inferior diseased plant cultivars.

After a few months growing fig plants, I have changed my mind, because of the following experiences.

1. I purchased several cultivars that were noted as having the virus (Mission, Petite Negri and Violette De Bordeaux/Negronne), With attention to care and nutrition, the plants were visibly healthy and productive.

2. The VDB purchased from Edible Landscaping (30 inches tall)had Very visible leaf deformation (asymmetry) and mosaic mottling (pale spots). After several weeks of observation, I realized that most of the pale spots were caused by Leaf Rust. New leaves that grew from the growing tips were not mottled and looked healthy,before they were infected (inoculated) with Rust. The plant itself was very prolific and grew over 1 foot on each of its branches and more than 30 fig embryos were pinched. The observations were similar for The Petite Negri, It grew 18 inches and has 10 figs.

VDB/Negronne...



Petite Negri...


3. I documented a young (virus free,NYC native) plant, getting mottled leaves (noted as virus infection in several pictures on the web). I traced it to fig Leaf Rust. The young plant was placed below older Rust infected plants. The young leaves were mottled, the older leaves developed the usual brown spots. The young plant was 1 of 30 started from the same tree branch. All of the other young plants (in a different location) were completely healthy. I repeated the experiment and it occurred again.
In my professional career, I often perform certification tests under real world conditions to validate theoretical Engineered designs, the criteria for positive proof is being able to repeat the results.

4. Young plants that I received in June (from Almost Eden,in 4" pots) were bare rooted, pruned of all leaves with severe Rust and planted in 5 gallon buckets. All produced fig embryos (which were pinched) and grew more than 3 feet. This attests to the inherent vigor of the fig plants.

My conclusion from limited experience and other trials is that some of the negative symptoms associated with FMV (FMD) may be traced to other sources. There are plants with severe cases (deformed leaves and mottling), but with proper care most infected cultivars may still be productive.
My thoughts on propagation and sharing of fig cuttings are now positive. The growing and experimentation will continue.

Thanks to Jon V. and all the members on this forum for sharing this great addition to my Love of gardening. 

Wow!  And you are in New York!  Amazing!  Mediterranean climates are not affected by FMV at all, and it's interesting that in New York, it's fine too.  I'm sure you will get some flack from the New Yorker's here.  Nice to know you are not afraid!

Suzi

Pete,
Have you found a treatment that has worked for you to combat the leaf rust?  Have rust on a non fig (small cherry) and trying to decide if I will treat with agricultural sulfur?  It is so late in the year that I may have missed the window.  The leaves are starting to fall.

Wondering if rust is specific to a plant or will spread between plant varieties?  Interesting post.  Thank you!

Suzi, What should I fear? I am making a statement based on my documented observations.

Gina, My observations are supported by your comment "Some figs do seem to grow out of it". This comment is repeated frequently on this site. If plants are provided with proper nutrition, water, soil and sun, they will grow to their optimum genetic capability. As far as bearing fruit, all my plants produced at least one fig at each leaf node, two plants formed double figs at several leaf nodes (Kadota and O'Rourke).

Doug, I have tried Copper and Sulfur, they work for about 2 weeks, but we have been getting rain every week. I have apples that were free of apple cedar rust(which incubates on Cedar trees), until last year, 6 out of 18 plants currently show symptoms of infection. Destroy all fallen leaves, It will reduce the spores. According to web literature Fig Leaf Rust spores do not survive the Cold. Spores may survive in leaf litter and compost piles. From my observations there were 2 distinct types (symptoms) of rust on the fig leaves.

Thanks

Pete, what should you fear?  Well the topic here is FMV, so that! 

But I commend you for your post and your lack of fear, and proof that fear is not required.

I like that you scientifically proved your point!  YAY!!

Many here have "fear," and I've had my share of getting slapped by members not named, for saying that "FMV is no big deal," and in this climate it is not. 

It's kind of an old topic, and almost like politics.  I think this, you think that... drone on and on............

Good luck with your trees, and I'm sure you have your UC Davis order in for the virus laden cuttings for 2013.  LOL!!

Suzi

Suzi,
Thanks again for commenting. As you can see, I don't fear FMV. I have read some of the older posts (I was lurking for months), that is why I am posting with my results. I believe that sharing info should be a priority for any Forum. I don't plan on ordering from UC Davis because there are enough varieties out there that I can choose from. My plan is for an in ground orchard with very few potted plants.

Pete thanks for your observations i showed pictures of FMV i think here in 2008/2009 under a grow light.

If i may chime in . I fear no FMV for my plants as i have shown in pictures produce and grow excellent.
I have plants from around the world , Italy, France, Baud Nursery,etc and they display FMV in spring and it tends to hide as season marches on and i get to enjoy some of the best figs out there .

I have had plants show nothing first season growing only to display it well the following season.

Next season to eat figs from some of the finer ones
Coll de Dame Noire
Violet Sollies
Noire de Barbentane
Roja
all have it its not a big deal for me personally.

Black Madeira is from UcDavis infected and was best in yard,you can see pictures i leave up for a short time here in this thread link below.

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Best-In-Yard-2012-6034342

As another unrelated note i have one of the most poisonous plants to have in yard - "Oleander"  its leaves can kill a horse if enough were to be eaten.
But its flowers smell will put most others to shame in my opinion and its to be treated with respect.

Pete- Are you totally sure about pic #3? I see the rust but it is uniform across the leaf, while mottling is not.

Suzi, many members who have been growing figs for much longer than you or I have made their own observations about FMV. Many others have researched the problem and also presented that information without bias. I have never seen anyone here treat you less than politely, perhaps you are taking disagreements personally?

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/fig-problem-3597513?highlight=necrotic

Martin, Thanks for your post.

Brent, Yes I am certain. The uniform rust spots are in thicker older leaves. The mottling occurs in newly emerged leaves only. I correlate it with leaf thickness, thinner young leaves = mottling. I will be repeating the experiment again, if the weather permits, I have more rust free plants.
Thanks for the link to the PDF document on FMV.

Pete,

My wish list never contains varieties I can order from UC Davis, because that's just easy.  But trading treasured varieties is what this forum can offer over all others! 

I do love research, and I think you did good!  Useful information!

Suzi

Good topic...good information, and controversy can be a good thing, because we might learn something new from the exchanges of ideas and arguments, either pro, or, con.  Thanks for the photos, and insightful observations.

In post # 5 :

...."If plants are provided with proper nutrition, water, soil and sun, they will grow to their optimum genetic capability"....well... maybe, and maybe not.  One can only hope that this will be true, but I fear good culture may not be enough to save many plants from the ravages of FMV...especially if the plants are stressed, and weakened.  I would rather not deal with compromised plants, but sometimes it can't be avoided if you MUST have a certain variety.  You learn to live with it.  My goal would be to have a FMV-free collection, as opposed to becoming good at ignoring setbacks as they arise in bad seasons.  Rusts come and go, but FMV doesn't.  Good culture may suppress, but will not eliminate this virus.

                                       **********************************************************************

There's a non-toxic product called  "Green-Cure".  I used this, and got good results...BUT, in the rainy, Fall weather, it washes away and has to constantly be reapplied.  I'm basically lazy.  Now, I just let the rusty leaves turn yellow, and fall off naturally.  My trees look so ratty by this time of the year, I'm glad the leaves are dropping.


My thoughts.

Frank

Suzi, My foray into figs was started as a gift of 4 cutting from two trees growing in the Bronx, in the early part of April. My interests stems from the hardiness of the fig plants and fruit (no pesticides). My goal is to acquire cold hardy, productive varieties for fruit production and these are already in circulation.
Gardening is my only hobby (vice), so I may approach it too clinically.

Frank, Thanks. I am not implying that improved cultural practices will make a severely infected plant produce. I am saying that any plant, Including figs will produce Optimally, when given the best growing conditions. Leaving out hot day time temperatures, a fig plant should grow and produce figs at each leaf note optimally. If it is not warm enough to ripen figs that is another problem. If the plant is too sick to grow, with optimal conditions it should be destroyed (my opinion).
Thanks

Pete,

I wish to thank you for taking an engineering approach to the problem and performing small scaled experiments with repeated observations.

Personally my main passion in now being focused on breeding. I am scouring and actively hunting for hardy varieties, which also contain flavors which are of the better varieties. I have been looking and finding abandoned figs in some of the worst places. Today while up in Williamsburg, Va I found some small seedlings in a group not four feet from the side of the interstate. Will see how they do next year as I had no shovel or digging device and just pulled them out of the ground. 

Chris,

Thanks. I have a cutting recovery kit, It my car. It consists of a 12Qt tub, pruning shears, large garden trowel, plastic bags, 1 gallon of potting soil, 1 ball of twine and 1 quart of water. It is all stored inside the 12 qt tub (thanks to The Boy Scouts). I am always on the look out for healthy plants, and most home owners are happy to share, if asked.

Good luck and good hunting.

Pics taken by me in 2009.
Worse case of mottling and worse infected plant with cocktails of Fmv strains is ischia black UcDavis specimen in this picture.I call it bubbling of the leaf. : )
That ischia bllack finally died with my experimenting.

The other 2 are also fmv in  very early stages to the eye - look real close , those 2 leaves are from UcDavis Madeira which will always have it as fmv just hides and does not go away permanently has been my observations.
This madeira grew into a wonderful plant that produce many figs and best tasting  figs on my palate in yard 2012.

I must have misunderstood Pete. I will see if I can notice this in the future.

Brent,
re: leaf mottling
I observed two (2) different Leaf Rust Fungus, one formed large spots and one formed small spots, with associated large and small spore capsules on underside of leaves. The rust that formed smaller spots was the one I believe to be responsible for the leaf mottling. I hand water the plants in the morning, and check for growth and insects. at night I check the plants by flash light (I usually get home after dark). It only takes 20 minutes total for the figs and is done 7 days per week rain or shine, so I was aware of the changes in the leaves.

Noss, I carry a 16 oz bottle of rubbing alcohol at all times, but it is not part of my Kit, but good call, I will add a 10% bleach solution is a 16 oz bottle (less waste and expense). Most trees in NYC are healthy.

Martin, I call it "savoy" like in the cabbage. Thanks for the pics I appreciate your input.

Mike,

In my observations, FMV was not the major problem, it was leaf rust. Any damage to leaves or roots affect plant growth, and all my leaves were being damaged. Most of the plants in NYC, that I have seen, are practically rust free. They are currently growing Healthy and green.

If you rule out fixed variables like FMV Infection and proper Culture, you are left with the other variables that affect growth and production.
This is to say that I start with the assumption that all trees have FMD (FMV). as a given, so changing of fixing the other variables (water, sun, nutrition, insects, diseases, temperature) will either give you positive or negative results.
Thanks for contributing.

Pete - Thank you for your post and this discussion it has engendered. I am not sure what point(s) you intend to communicate with your 3 pictures. The 3rd picture clearly shows fig mosaic disease (FMD). As an aside, while mottling disease is typically referred to as FMV (fig mosiac/mottling virus) in posts on this forum, it is now called FMD in the scientific literature. What is your basis for calling the lesions you see on your leaves rust? Have you cultured the fungus or done some other definitive biological identification? My understanding based on my reading is that fig rust is typically restricted to the Southeastern US and would be unusual in New York. I live in Northern California and I have encountered lesions very similar to what I see in your pictures. Since I am a scientist in the biological sciences, I have access to good microscopes. I have microscopically examined the lesions on a number of my leaves and they are decidedly not rust. I have a number of references on fig rust. None of your leaf lesions appear to be rust to me. Hopefully you can see the differences from this publication:
http://www.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonlyres/3CB47A0E-BCBD-4802-B05A-B60386A052AA/71575/pub3159FigRustHIGHRES.pdf
What your lesions (and mine) DO look like is the necrosis you see from FMD. Please note Figure 1c and the pictures in Table 2 in this publication.
http://journals.tubitak.gov.tr/agriculture/issues/tar-09-33-5/tar-33-5-6-0807-20.pdf

Should you or any of the other fig fanatics out there get fig rust, the usual recommendation is to treat with 5-5-50 Bordeaux spray (copper sulfate, lime, water) every 2 weeks for control. There may be a more organic approach. Mike's suggestion of Neem Oil is a good one. There may be something on the OMRI website too.

I do think you are spot on in saying FMD should not prevent you from growing great figs & have a ton of fun doing it if you work to maintain good plant health. There are an array of viruses that are demonstrated to cause some form of FMD. FMD has turned-out to be a very complex subject. Until experiments are done with trees proven to be FMD free in well controlled experiments, we are left to speculate on what the true impact on tree growth & fig production FMD has. Right or wrong, it is a widely accepted view in the scientific fig writings that FMD slows the growth of trees and reduces fruit yield. My bias is that there are no FMD free trees circulating in this fig community or currently available through any nursery. Others feel they do have FMD free trees. None of us can know for sure until the plants are examined with molecular biology techniques for the viral genetic material. Make no mistake, I would dearly love for my bias to be wrong. Until the day when certified FMD free trees are available, one can try to follow the lead of the folks on this forum who work hard to obtain examples of each cultivar that do not show any obvious FMD symptoms and keep them as happy & healthy as you can.

Good luck with your trees!

DWD2,

Thanks for posting and the added PDF documents.

Most of the plants that I currently own were grown in the south. The pictured plant (VDB) is from the south (Virginia). The picture was to show the plant growth in one short season. Most were in 1 gallon planters. All were received with Rust spots and nodules on the back of the leaves. All were sprayed with copper fungicide several times during the growing season, to retard the spread of rust. Yes the leaves are beginning to yellow and die. We are experiencing nighttime temps in the 40's. Until the beginning of September there were no major problems. No spread of rust. Once it started raining weekly four weeks ago,the Rust started to spread. I have stopped spraying because the leaves are yellowing and falling anyway. The lesions on the back of the leaves are a reddish tan or light brown. I believe they will be killed by the cold.

Here is a web site with better description and pictures of Leaf Rust. http://plantpath.caes.uga.edu/extension/plants/fruitandnuts/commonfigrust.html

The lesions that you have examined, what are they? Do you have a more detailed description and picture of a necrotic lesion? Do necrotic lesions extend past the back of the leaf? I have access to electron microscopes and more in a large medical research facility, researchers and technicians trained to use them, but this is my hobby, not a career. I am not planning an extended scientific investigation. If the question is still being asked next season I will drop off leaves at Cornell Agricultural Extension for testing.

As stated my conclusions arise from my observations. I am not disputing any FMD (FMV) claims scientific or otherwise. The only point I was trying to make is that you can get a reasonable production from an infected plant.

Thanks

Attached is a picture of a VDB/Negronne Leaf back, showing rust nodules. If the leaf was not sprayed regularly with fungicide, it would have turned brown and died earlier in the season.

For what little I thought I knew about the common diseases that can infect figs, I recognize the photos of fig rust shown in the first link to the LSU Agricultural Center...in post #23.  Those pictured leaves look just like the leaves on my fig trees, but only at this time of year.  I think all the dew, and nighttime condensation has a lot to do with the spread of rusts.

The mottled leaves in  Pete's photos, I think, look like FMV to me, but I'm probably wrong.  I never really made it a point to look at my plants from a scientists point of view.  The spotty leaves still look unhealthy to me, even if the plant is a strong and vigorous grower.

Funny...I never knew that a fig tree could get  any diseases until I started to read all the postings on the fig forums, and then, seeing photos of diseased trees.  Almost none of the trees in The Bronx, and/or surrounding areas ever look infected with, whatever.  In my area, the leaves turn bright yellow and then fall off the trees.  But, here's something strange...all my trees get rusty leaves, while surrounding trees do not.  Why?  I'll bet it has something to do with the abundance of water and food that I give my cultivated, containerized, trees, as opposed to the hard life of the in-ground trees.  I'll bet the in-ground, neglected trees, are stronger, and resist diseases better than my "spoiled" trees.  The "Life-of-Rielly" trees are more easily affected by adverse conditions.  THIS IS ONLY SPECULATION.

Just some observations.

Frank