This is an unknown that I got in Nov '09 from a local gardener. Most everyone around here knows him as "Farmer Don" because of the huge garden he always tends right out next to a main road.

He's been growing this fig for years. He brought it with him years ago when he moved from Lousiana. He mentioned once that he thought it might be Texas Everbearing  - ?

This is the first time I've seen fresh ripe fruit from it. My first guess would have been Celeste but I'm just not sure being relatively new to growing figs my self.

The flavor was quite sweet and juicey but not super juicey. One of the better figs I've tasted so far.

I'll try to get pics of the tree with the fruit on it for next time I post.

No pictures.  Try clicking 'edit', 'go advanced' then save the post again.

Bill types
One of the better figs I've tasted so far.

I'll try to get pics of the tree with the fruit on it for next time I post.
Any thoughts?

My Thoughts.
would like to see pictures  - i enjoy to see others pictures and more n more pictures and their figs that they enjoy. ; )

Sorry guys. The pics were there last night when I posted them. Hopefully you can see them now :) .

Bill,

does not look like a Celeste. Stem too short, ostiole open and the color is a bit off. Also looks juicier than I am used to. Sounds like a good fig though. Enjoy!

I sure do recognize that fig type/shape...........it idefinitely is not a Celeste.  See this link.........

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5412434

I will check out the current leaf pattern on my tree and see if it looks like those in your pictures.  Since my tree was top killed this past winter and came back with very vigorous new growth....the leaves that are "now" on the tree are likely five lobed like yours. Because they grew "very rapidly" they would have reverted to the higher lobed leaf pattern with much more definiton in the leaf. Will report later after I tour my trees......

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

Thanks Rueben.

Interesting thing about the stem. On a different tree of the same variety, the fruit stems are longer. This is one that had more winter die-back and the figs are forming later than the other 2 trees of this variety. These probably won't have enough time to fully form b4 winter though. 

I'll get a pic of this one later & post it.

As for the color? The pics don't seem to show the true color very well but it's not too far off.

The stem "length" of many figs are related to how fast the fig actually emerged from the node. If it grew/emerged very fast.....from vigours new growth or from heavy fertilizer.....the stem will be much longer than if it emerged more slowlly. This year the figs on my Blue Bingo tree have a much longer stem length. They are veryyyy long.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

Looks very similar to yours Dan. In fact your pictures seem to show the correct color better than mine do. Mine seemed to look more reddish inside in my pics. That's not really accurate as the flesh does look more amber-ish in person. With maybe just a slight hue of pink.

The one main difference at this point is the leaf shape. Look forward to hearing back from you on more recent leaf shape from yours.

Bill, if I were a betting man.....I would take any bet that the leaves on my tree now look like the ones you posted. For the last several years I have observed how "rapid growth" affects both the shape of a leaf (number of lobes), the definition of the leaf (if it has spurs, or serrated edges), and the actual length of the fig stem.  I would bet knowing with a 75% probability that I will be proved right.....i.e. the leaves that are now on my tree, will look like yours. But I am not a betting man.  However, I study the growing habits of my many fig trees much closer than most people.

I have reported on this "rapid growth" observation many times. Only one or two forum members have confirmed this observation on their own trees in their written posts. Anyone can see the same thing happening on their own fig trees if they just look for it. This is one BIG factor that makes it much harder to ID a fig just from the leaf pattern. You need informaton about the growing conditons of the tree to make a better identification. 

I recognize your "no neck" fig as being very similar to one that I have in my collection. Mine is a very good tasting fig. It will produce two crops. AND, it will produce a crop from new growth that comes from the roots. Celeste cannot do that.........

I will post pictures of my tree later........

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

The next time I vist Farmer Don, I will see if I can get any more details as to just where he got the tree, from whom, etc.

Although my thoughts tend to be a bit preliminary Dan, I tend to agree with you on this leaf shape/development thing. I know I haven't given it as much close scrutiny as you may have but I think I'll pay closer attention now after talking about it.

It seems to me that more mature trees tend to be more set in their leaf shape & size(once fully devloped) than younger trees. It also seems that certain varieties may be more reliable or "set" than others as well........Just a couple of my thoughts.

Bill,

You obsrvations are spot on.....

As a fig tree reaches maturity the "emergent leaf growth rate" will become more normal...i.e. a SLOWER emergence rate. The leaves can have "less" detail whenever they emerge at a slower rate. Sooooo, as my Blue Bingo tree reaches maturity the leaf pattern WILL revert back to predominately 3 lobes as was pictured in my previous link.

Now cut off several large branches from that same mature Blue Bingo tree which has mostly 3 lobes.........and what will grow back will be leaves that have "more detail" and look like yours.  Severe pruning on a tree, or new growth from die back from the ground, or even heavy fertiizer .......can all cause this "rapid growth emergence" of figs and/or leaves that are on a particular fig tree. And this "emergent growth rate" can DRASTICALLY change how those fig leaves and fig "stems" (not the "neck") will actually look. And this in turn can cause a tree to look completely different over the years.

Dan,

Having said that about the definition of leaf shape/size, how then would you reconcile the short stem on this fig? My money is that it is not a Celeste. However, you are correct that more info is needed to get an identification. My Celestes have always had long stems regardless of the rate of growth of the plant itself, first year cutting in a pot or 5-yr old tree in the ground. Information listed below (some of what I track) would all be useful in identifying/ruling out varietals.

Ruben,

I don't have ALL the answers just yet. That takes many many years to even remotely approach becoming an expert. However, I am 100% positive on what I have reported regarding the effects of emergent leaf/fig rate of growth  on leaf characteristics and fig stem length. (Sounds like an article for publication doesn't it??)  I am a serious fig researcher and pay special attention to those type of details. I have not yet developed a speedometer that will accurately measure those "emergent growth rates". ... (;>)

Now my question to you......How do you reconcile that fig stems from the same tree can differ quite dramitaclly from year to year.....or from one sybling tree to the other???? The answer is ...it depends on their "emergent growth rate." And yes, most definitely gentics can have an impact too.

And my other question to you.....are you sure you are not confusing the fig "neck" with the fig "stem". There is a difference and I am specifically referring to the fig "stem" and NOT to its neck.


IMO, emergent growth rate MIGHT even have a bearing on the eye characteristics too (open/closed) for some cultivars. It will take years for me to prove any linkage and make such a statement with any degree of certainty.
-------------------------------------
Bill,

I drove by my Blue Bingo tree when I went out to the drug store a while ago. Still not feeling very well. And YEP INDEED the leaves are all 5 lobed and I would have won that bet. No pictures taken yet......definiitely will post later.......

It will be interesting for me to learn just where in Louisiana Farmer Don once lived. How far from Thibodeaux did he live??

I know that my Blue Bingo heirlloom fig was growing in a very isolated and exclusively Cajun community as far back as the mid to late 1800's. That is why I "belive" (i.e. I have no actual proof) that it "MIGHT" be of French orgin.


Dan
Semper Fi-cus 

Dan,

Wouldn't that be a kick if this tree came from the same area!? Now I'm anxious to go speak with ol' Don. Although I knew he is from LA ,I never really thought of him as being cajun but that would explain some of his mannerisms :-) . I've heard him say Ooooh boy! A few times but I've heard a few Kentuckians talk like that too though. Anyway, just having a little light come on in my noggin ;) .

I will speak to Farmer Don within the next day or so. And I will be sure to get as much info as he can recall. I'll also be sure to write down Thibodeaux, otherwise I'd forget that one for sure.

Here are some pics of the tree (with fruit) itself. I took a couple of them this morning when the lighting was at a bad angle. So the color is off a bit. That's my dog 'Sage' in a couple of the shots. 

With no disrespect that looks like a few celestes I have grown.  In my location, zone 7 NYC that looks like celeste.  I am no authority but  thats what it looks like to me.

I could be wrong Ed.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

I would be fine with it being a Celeste. Mainly because I would know the variety :) ! If it is a Celeste, I can say for sure that I like Celeste better then Italian Honey :> .

Dan,

If you do take new pics of your Blue Bingo, I'd still like to see them.

Anyone else feel like this one is a Celeste. Three or more votes & that's what I'll call it unless I'm proved otherwise.

How about other thoughts H2, Bass, Jason, gorgi, others? 

Dan,

In answer to your two questions:

1) I have 7 different sources of Celeste and have yet to see a change in stems from year to year
2) I am quite knowledgeable on the anatomy of the ficus carica and know the difference between the stem and the neck as well as the apex from the base of the fruit.

Thanks

Here are some pics of the small sibling of the tree being discussed. It may just seem to have longer fruit stems because the fruit are less developed.

In the pic with the 3 small trees (the picture on the left here), the one on the right end is the one shown in the close-ups. The tree on the left end is another sibling of this variety. The one in the middle is a different unknown fig. 

Just asking Ruben..........

Some people do not know the difference. Obviously you do.

I DO SEE a BIG difference (not a "little" difference) in the stem length from year to year on the figs from the exact same tree or from one of its clones. My trees are all grown in the ground. But, I do change their fertilization schedule "on purpose" in order to study their growing and fruiting habits. I did not give some of my trees any fertilizer BEFORE the first leaf flush......just to study the effects. The fig flush cycle (of the fruit & of the leaf) is something that I am studying. Most people stick to their same routine in their fertilization schedule. I DO NOT......in an attempt to learn what happens.  What I have reported happens.......anyone can verify that for themselves.

In fact Bill has made this very same observation when he replied to your post in this thread:

"Thanks Ruben.
Interesting thing about the stem. On a different tree of the same variety, the fruit stems are longer. This is one that had more winter die-back and the figs are forming later than the other 2 trees of this variety. These probably won't have enough time to fully form b4 winter though."
-------------------------------------------------

Sooooooo, different stem lengths DO OCCUR as I have reported. And they most certainly do occur for the very reason I have given. It just depends on the "fig's emergent growth rate." And the same thing happens with the leaves on many fig cultivars. The "emergent growth rate" of the individual leaves of many cultivars (not all) affects the number of lobes and their overall definition. The faster a leaf emerges from the bud on some cultivars......the more definition it will have. The slower it emerges from the bud.......the less definiton it will have.  I am 100% sure of this. This is easiest to see on young trees or on older well established trees......that are severly pruned or heavily fertilized. Can often see it too on fast growing sprouts.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

no pics, Bill

Dan,

I agree with you that some varieties have variable stem lengths. That is a well documented fact. However, I thought we were trying to rule in/out Celeste as the identity of Bill's fig. Celeste is not one of those variable varietals. It is predominantly long stemmed. If we take any one characteristic and try to look for exceptions, we will most certainly find them. However, if you take the entire set of characteristics a clearer picture emerges. Bill's tree is very young but other than a similarity to juvenile Celeste foliage, it has significant differences all in one very young tree which point to another identity.

Just to clarify with a simple example......

It is perfectly normal for my Blue Bingo fig tree to produce figs which have an "average" stem (not neck) length of say 1 inch. While at the same time to have the mother to this tree produce figs which have an average length of 1/2 inch.....i.e. 50% shorter. 

 Now severely prune and fertilize that same mother tree next year and it WILL HAVE figs with an "average" length of 1 inch....just like its baby clone. That is because the figs themselves will emerge much faster from its closed bud (not talking about "earlier" emergance...but, its faster speed of emergance)  in the following year....due to the large root mass and fertilizer affects on the mother tree.

Bottom line.......the conditions under which a fig tree grows can affect both the shape of the leaf and the length of its fig stems.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

Sorry about the pics. Hopefully everyone can see them now.