Is this possible ?

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pacifica

Registered:1437258402
Posts: 274

Posted 1449469297	Reply with quote #1

Last Fall, I proceed almost 40 cuttings using water and polybag methods. Being my first time last Fall, I was so excited because it was almost 90% success even they were from 2 different varieties only. I started again in this Sept/Oct using polybag and 3 cups methods with 100% perlite in a 16 oz plastic cup, but up to now, only 30% are still alive.This time, I have 6 different varieties. Anyway, my question is : can I remove those that are not good and place them in 16 oz plastic cup filled with water ? Hopefully there will be some miracles in due course. I found using 100% perlite is so easy to be dried out. Rather than to see them die, I want to give them a chance to get survived if possible. Your comments or responds will be much appreciated.

Louneo

Registered:1447108662
Posts: 95

Posted 1449478893	Reply with quote #2

I am very new to all of this but if you want my suggestion and its something that has worked incredibly well for me. I have 150 cuttings right now rooting / rooted. I have tremendous success doing this. I took a potting mix that I mixed up, 30-40% perlite, to 60-70% peat moss, my mix typically has a little epsom salt in it but I doubt that is necessary for this. I then wet the mix down, then put 2" in a 6" deep plastic bin, I rubbed off some of the bottom of the cuttings so the green layer was showing on the cutting then placed them on the damp mix. I think placed 2 - 3 more inches of mix on top of them. I sprayed the top with a little bit of hydrogen peroxide just to avoid any mold issues (again not sure its recommended or necessary but it didnt hurt mine). I placed this on top of a set of grow lights for heat. Within a couple weeks you will see roots and possibly leaves poking out of the mix and on the bottom of the tray. Pull them out and carefully pot them in cups, dont let the roots get too long before you do or they will be prone to breaking. Almost ALL of my cuttings started roots this way. If they didnt, I left them in there longer until they did. I tried the 100% perlite method and breaking roots scared me so I went to this instead. __________________ 2017 Wishlist: CDDG, CDDN, CDDB, CDDR, Preto, i-258, Pastilliere Dauphine, Figoin, Cavaliere, Bordissot's Thank you!

Jodi

Registered:1443230258
Posts: 343

Posted 1449503496	Reply with quote #3

Thanks for all the details Louneo. I'm trying rooting my first cuttings also. Can you post a picture of your setup. Sounds simple and effective. And good luck to you also Pacifica! It like becoming parents..nerve wracking! :-). Jodi __________________ In the book the "The Meaning of Trees" it is said the fig regulates the heart and that the true essence of Figs is...food for the soul. Daisy's IBT cuttings will be available in January/February along with a few Lampeira Parda. Wishes for Martinenca Rimada, Black Ischia, I258, CddRoja, Jolly Tiger, Your favorite Figgy! Zone 8a Camp Verde AZ

ThaiFig

Registered:1422928614
Posts: 179

Posted 1449508113	Reply with quote #4

If the cuttings haven't died from dehydration or rotted from fungus, then you can still transfer them to cups of water. Are they still green when you scratch off the bark? Do they give off a bad smell when you take them out the perlite? Does the perlite wash off cleanly under running water? __________________ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009030195236 Wish list: Bourjasotte Grise Dark Portugese Granthams Royal Hollier Hative D’Argenteuil Smith Black Triana

Louneo

Registered:1447108662
Posts: 95

Posted 1449508221	Reply with quote #5

Sure, the reason I went this route is because its incredibly simply. I tend to over complicate things, so I started trying to do it in a glass of water, then I started to do them sticking straight up in perlite, but was worried about the roots so I then started doing them this way and had a lot of success with it and its so easy. Doing them just stuck into plastic cups of mix and then placed in a taller bin to seal in moisture is how I will do them in the future I think. No risk of breaking roots that way since you arent moving them. You want to talk about nerve wracking, wait til roots gets too long on you (3-4 inches) and you are trying to bury them in a cup without breaking them. Dont cut deep into the fig wood like I did on this one, this was one of my first rooting attempts, I stuck it in mix, outside and it didnt take. So I brought it inside to try it again and its rooting, you want to just slightly take away the outside bark exposing the green underneath. This one could rot on me because of the slices I made but its the only 1 I have rooting to show you haha. __________________ 2017 Wishlist: CDDG, CDDN, CDDB, CDDR, Preto, i-258, Pastilliere Dauphine, Figoin, Cavaliere, Bordissot's Thank you!

Louneo

Registered:1447108662
Posts: 95

Posted 1449508381	Reply with quote #6

Also this was a great post about Hot Water Rescue which could help depending on if they are dried out or not. Its worth the read anyhow. http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/hot-water-rescue-6816776?highlight=hot+water&pid=1289698668 __________________ 2017 Wishlist: CDDG, CDDN, CDDB, CDDR, Preto, i-258, Pastilliere Dauphine, Figoin, Cavaliere, Bordissot's Thank you!

ThaiFig

Registered:1422928614
Posts: 179

Posted 1449511912 · Edited	Reply with quote #7

@Louneo like you I am using a similar mix of 50% rice husk (my substitute for perlite) and 50% cocopeat (my substitute for peat moss). I am moving them to this mix after I see root initials forming in the cups of water. I haven't scratched mine to create callus, as I am worried about allowing fungus and bacteria to get under the bark. Instead I've been waiting for the lenticels to swell and form initial roots. By keeping them in water I can monitor progress and change the water frequently if it gets cloudy from yeast, mold or bacteria. I haven't used peroxide, but I have found a .05% concentration of benzalkonium chloride (500 ppm) in the water keeps the water from clouding up overnight. This is one of the 2 active ingredients in Physan 20. It's also fairly common in many household disinfectant/cleaners. I don't use humidity chambers for these cuttings, since I lost some last year trying to harden them off. This year the first leaves are already used to my ambient humidity levels and won't need to be weaned off of a high humidity chamber (which also promoted mold on the stems last year). So far I've only sucessfully rooted a few cuttings this way. The rest are still in their water baths. I lost only one cutting so far, which was one I tried transfering from media back to water but waited too late (and hadn't found the benzalkonium chloride yet). __________________ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009030195236 Wish list: Bourjasotte Grise Dark Portugese Granthams Royal Hollier Hative D’Argenteuil Smith Black Triana

Louneo

Registered:1447108662
Posts: 95

Posted 1449512121	Reply with quote #8

Weening to ambient is my current battle. The biggest reason I went the way I chose to is sheer volume. I dove in head first from 0 cuttings to 150 cuttings in a week. __________________ 2017 Wishlist: CDDG, CDDN, CDDB, CDDR, Preto, i-258, Pastilliere Dauphine, Figoin, Cavaliere, Bordissot's Thank you!

ThaiFig

Registered:1422928614
Posts: 179

Posted 1449512689	Reply with quote #9

My reasoning is that a stem sitting in a water bath isn't going to dry out. Nor is one sitting in moist media if it has roots already. I had one cutting get moldy last year, and within 24 hours the mold had spread to all the others in the same bin. So in a separate experiment where I'm rooting small double node cuttings buried in media, each cutting has a plastic dome lid on its own cup. They will come off immediately I can see roots. __________________ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009030195236 Wish list: Bourjasotte Grise Dark Portugese Granthams Royal Hollier Hative D’Argenteuil Smith Black Triana

pacifica

Registered:1437258402
Posts: 274

Posted 1449537715	Reply with quote #10

Quote: Originally Posted by Louneo I am very new to all of this but if you want my suggestion and its something that has worked incredibly well for me. I have 150 cuttings right now rooting / rooted. I have tremendous success doing this. I took a potting mix that I mixed up, 30-40% perlite, to 60-70% peat moss, my mix typically has a little epsom salt in it but I doubt that is necessary for this. I then wet the mix down, then put 2" in a 6" deep plastic bin, I rubbed off some of the bottom of the cuttings so the green layer was showing on the cutting then placed them on the damp mix. I think placed 2 - 3 more inches of mix on top of them. I sprayed the top with a little bit of hydrogen peroxide just to avoid any mold issues (again not sure its recommended or necessary but it didnt hurt mine). I placed this on top of a set of grow lights for heat. Within a couple weeks you will see roots and possibly leaves poking out of the mix and on the bottom of the tray. Pull them out and carefully pot them in cups, dont let the roots get too long before you do or they will be prone to breaking. Almost ALL of my cuttings started roots this way. If they didnt, I left them in there longer until they did. I tried the 100% perlite method and breaking roots scared me so I went to this instead. Hi Louneo, Let say if put 30% perlite, 70% peat moss, what about potting mix in a plastic cup ? How many percent for the potting mix dirt if mixed with perlite and peat moss to avoid misunderstanding. Thanks.....

pacifica

Registered:1437258402
Posts: 274

Posted 1449538021	Reply with quote #11

Quote: Originally Posted by ThaiFig If the cuttings haven't died from dehydration or rotted from fungus, then you can still transfer them to cups of water. Are they still green when you scratch off the bark? Do they give off a bad smell when you take them out the perlite? Does the perlite wash off cleanly under running water? Hi ThaiFig, Sorry but I did not wash the perlite before I apply to the cutting by mistake. Do I need to wash the perlite as mentioned and how ?

Louneo

Registered:1447108662
Posts: 95

Posted 1449538078	Reply with quote #12

Potting mix vs potting soil are 2 different things. My potting mix that I use for vegetable gardens in wicking bags is about 25% perlite, 60% peat, 10% well composted manure and then < 5% garden lime and Epsom salt. I mix by volume so % are guesses. I've just adopted that mix for starting these figs. I dropped the lime and Epsom salt, upped the perlite for better draining and less wicking and am not using much of any compost. Really I'm just using what I have. I use the same upped mix in my cups so 40%ish perlite and the rest is peat. I don't think the mixture is as important as the fact that it's well draining and airy. That's what the perlite is for. I hope this helps. I'm currently rooting roses in the same mix. __________________ 2017 Wishlist: CDDG, CDDN, CDDB, CDDR, Preto, i-258, Pastilliere Dauphine, Figoin, Cavaliere, Bordissot's Thank you!

Smyfigs

Registered:1443660141
Posts: 1,658

Posted 1449543773 · Edited	Reply with quote #13

Pacifica, great question! Louneo, good to see this method is working for you! Wow, you DID dive in! Keep us updated. Jodi & ThaiFig, please post your pics when u can. Great info being shared here! __________________ Meg-Hardiness Zone 10a Looking for... Socorro Blk Wuhan Jolly Tiger Lamperia Preta Herschtetten St. Jean Black Ischia "The best way to show my gratitude is to accept everything, even my problems, with joy." ~ Mother Teresa "Do not pass by a man in need for you may be the hand of God to him." ~Proverbs 3:27~ "He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed, miracles that cannot be counted." ~Job 5:4

pacifica

Registered:1437258402
Posts: 274

Posted 1449547872	Reply with quote #14

Quote: Originally Posted by Louneo Potting mix vs potting soil are 2 different things. My potting mix that I use for vegetable gardens in wicking bags is about 25% perlite, 60% peat, 10% well composted manure and then < 5% garden lime and Epsom salt. I mix by volume so % are guesses. I've just adopted that mix for starting these figs. I dropped the lime and Epsom salt, upped the perlite for better draining and less wicking and am not using much of any compost. Really I'm just using what I have. I use the same upped mix in my cups so 40%ish perlite and the rest is peat. I don't think the mixture is as important as the fact that it's well draining and airy. That's what the perlite is for. I hope this helps. I'm currently rooting roses in the same mix. Louneo : Thanks again for your information and so as clarification. I really appreciate it very much.

LJFiggy

Registered:1448185688
Posts: 145

Posted 1449636289	Reply with quote #15

Thanks for sharing your methods of success, Louneo....i'm going to reread your posts when my first cuttings arrive. The hydrogen peroxide would be good for several reasons, and I've heard of other gardeners using it for boosting their plants. You sure have an orchard started, almost overnight! All those babies will be grown before you know it and needing their own place to put down roots :) __________________ ~New to growing figs, I currently have tiny fig plants which are supposedly Little Ruby, Violette de Bordeaux, Desert King, and Petite Negri. I hope these were accurately labeled! Now rooting LSU Gold and Purple, Celeste, Panache, Peter's Honey, and Unknown Varieties from cuttings, thanks to generous forum members. Figs on my current wish list (along with any others recommended): Osborne Prolific, Battaglia Green, Smith, Kadota, Italian Honey, Atreano, Verte or Green Ischia, Panache, Peter's Honey, Black Madeira, Smith, Noir de Caromb, etc. ~

Hortstu

Registered:1350422638
Posts: 108

Posted 1449887180	Reply with quote #16

I've only done this with two unknown varieties so far. One purple and one a larger white. Maybe they're an easy to root variety but I get 80+% success with a great deal of neglect. I cut all the branches down to 6-8". Then I put them in a zip lock bag with a barely moist paper towel. Then I leave them somewhere that's about 75° f. Every few days I check them. If there's mold I add a cap full of HO. I'll blow fresh CO2 into the bag every time I check them and then reseal inflated. Last year i had a serious mold problem. I through out the worst and wiped the rest down with HO. They rooted and grew fine. I already have leaf buds growing on the cuts this way now. When they start showing the signs of roots I stick them in 100% perlite in clear well drained cups and put them on a warm window sill. Last year my only issue with this was the earliest planted ones got off to a slow start once transplanted. I believe they went to ling without nutrients. They eventually took off but ended the season half the size of the latter ones. This year I'll try to prevent that with a weak organic fertilizer every few waterings. Now if I only had 5 cuttings of something hard to get I wouldn't do it this way but last year I had 60 and this year I have 40 and most of them get gifted away. I have no room for them yet. I didn't use rooting hormones, lights, soil/less mix, and I didn't wound the cuttings at all. So yes I think almost anything is possible. __________________ Mike Zone 7a coastal nj

pacifica

Registered:1437258402
Posts: 274

Posted 1449893080	Reply with quote #17

Mike, What kind of weak organic fertilizer you can recommend for rooting ? This has to be applied once you see some roots right ? How to apply fertilizer to the cutting say you spray directly to the leaves and branches if any or apply into the dirt. I tried to put cuttings into 100% perlite, but not good due to easy to dry out.

kkk2210

Registered:1420862008
Posts: 474

Posted 1449903393	Reply with quote #18

Just placed few cuttings flat and got 100% success so far. Out of humidity . Compost with grit. __________________ Vinny Bognor Regis, United Kingdom Wish List : Callara, De La Rio,Cul Noir, Calvy, LSU Red, I-258, Maltese Beauty, Preto, FMV Infected Ischia Black UCD. My Ebay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/myb/Summary?MyEbay&gbh=1

Hortstu

Registered:1350422638
Posts: 108

Posted 1449906225 · Edited	Reply with quote #19

First I just realized, after looking at that last picture that I need to clarify that I'm using slightly wooded cuttings that have lost their leaves. It's fall here. If I did this with green leafy cuttings I expect they'd do poorly. Pacifica, I haven't used fertilizer on them yet. I just know after last year's experience that it would have been a good idea. The cuttings grew 2-4 sets of leaves and then stalled if they weren't put in a soil mix shortly after. This year I'll wait until there's a few sets of leaves and then experiment with frequency and concentration. I expect to have at least 20 cuttings as a low estimate. I wouldn't fertilize until after a set or two of leaves were completely leafed out but I'm trying a new variety this year and I imagine different varieties will have slightly different preferences. I want to add some nutrients before the growth stalls b/c getting them going again cost a lot of growth... at last that's my impression when I compare the stalled ones to the healthiest... don't add fertilizer at the first signs of roots. My gut tells me that's too early. I believe that keeping cuttings as dry as you can without killing them and as hungry as you can without starving them makes them grow roots to search for water and nutrients. I don't know what I'll use for fertilizer yet. I still have a little time to think/research about it. If they were outside I could use a 2-5% urine solution. I think early on nitrogen is what they're looking for. Or maybe a weak compost tea? I'm open to suggestion. Oh and as to perlite drying out. It's definitely an issue but I don't out the cuts in a south facing window. They're not heated from below. I pack the perlite pretty well. No forced air heat blowing on them... oh yeah last year i put the cups into Ziploc or Turkey basting bags and sealed them shut to create a humidity dome like environment. Once they leafed out well I had to remove them and stay on top of watering. I think with perlite and lots of drain holes it's hard to over water. Try putting the drain holes in your cups on the side instead of the bottom. This will leave a small reservoir of water in the bottom of the cup. __________________ Mike Zone 7a coastal nj

Hortstu

Registered:1350422638
Posts: 108

Posted 1449906520	Reply with quote #20

Kkk, Wow flat looks like something I want to try if I had a limited number of cuttings. The cuttings may be smaller or at least have smaller root systems but you could get 3+/ cutting? It's almost like laying a branch down and burying it while still attached to the tree. __________________ Mike Zone 7a coastal nj

pacifica

Registered:1437258402
Posts: 274

Posted 1449954921	Reply with quote #21

Hi Mike, Thanks for your explanation. I do agree that different varieties will have slightly different preferences as last year, i tried only 2 different varieties and they were very good. This Fall, I tried the same rooting method for other varieties, but so far only 40% of my cuttings are still alive but does not look like very healthy.

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