Is it possible that one is the Zingarella and another is not?
Remember the Genovese Nero ugly story?

The taste quality alone (good) does not determine a "better" Zing, right?
Who knows its story? Where was it found?

Greenfig, yes that is one possibility but there are others including what Herman2 suggested i.e it may be a variety whose leaf morphology is very sensitive to environment.  This seems unlikely to me but it is difficult to rule out.  I don't sell figs on ebay and don't really have a dog in this hunt but would like to avoid naming confusion.  Ideally, Richard Watts and the source that Wills got his from (and/or their sources?) would agree to how best to name them to avoid confusion.  In lieu of that, perhaps for now I will call mine "Zingarella-RW".  If anyone knows Richard Watts and has contact info for him please send me a PM - I'd like to get his opinion and more history on this variety.  Or alternatively if someone knows more please contribute to the thread.

Steve,
I will pm you his info.

Steve,

Yes on the cuttings but do remind me......thanks for tracking this down with Mr. Watts.  It should be pointed out that Watts refers to his fig as Gypsy, correct?  Who decided that Gypsy and Zingerella were in fact the same fig?  

Yeah, the Gypsy/Zingeralla double name is another question I don't have an answer to but I can ask RW.

My notes say that zingarella from Italian translates to "little gypsy".  I did a Google translate and gypsy is zingaro.  Wikipedia indicates that La Zingarella (or gypsy girl) is a statue... whether it is a simple translation of name for the same fig or a coincidence only in name of two different figs, I do not know.

and if we want a bit more confusion... in Fig Monograph, Hilgardia, Condit identifies "Zigarella" (no "n") as a synonym for Panachee (his spelling)

Productivity



LEAF






pre-dominant Leaf Shape

Thanks, Paully,

The leaves look like mine, Steve's and Herman's. I hope Steve will tell us what he found out from R. Watts.

And mine.  I might still plant mine in the ground this year.  Today I had a crew of 5 guys help with chestnut harvest.  Their Monday-Saturday job is working for Valley Crest Nursery, a huge ornamental landscape firm (location not far from me employes about 100) and they could help me get three more rows planted in my fig orchard pretty quickly (another 138 trees with t-posts and wire, etc.).  They worked pretty fast today and liked working here.

Paully, thanks for posting the pics.  Yes, your version of Zingarella looks like the Richard Watts version that many of us have.  It does seem to be very productive.  I sent RW an email to ask about the history etc of this variety and am waiting to hear back.

Steve,

How long ago did you write him?  It would not be the first time Watts renamed a fig.  Though I have heard from Paully that my sources source has had naming issues as well so who knows.  It is a mystery and sadly it may be one we won't be able to unravel.  

I wrote him on Saturday.  I'll trying calling him tomorrow if I don't hear anything by then.  Fig naming is always an adventure!

Well making progress:)  My sources sources source is a gentleman in Switzerland named Gus who has an extensive collection of Italian figs.  I have sent an email to him with pictures of the two leaf styles.  

Paully22, if the ripe fruit looks like the attachment I think you have the Sicilian Black which is my personal favorite.

As for the question whether the Sals Corleone, Weeping, or Gypsy/Zingeralla is the same, my answer is no.  As several folks indicated, growing conditions to include sunlight can have a profound impact on many things to include leave shape, fruit size and color.  Other differences is that the Gypsy/Zingerella is far more reliable then the Sals C, has better flavor, is more prolific, sets fruit much earlier than the Sals C and the Zingerella fruit is a little smaller.  Lastly most of the Zingerella fruit has a gray skin coloration which I have never seen on the other suspected plants within this discussion.

I do not share the sources of my stock because of the potential backlash for that individual.  Suffice it to say my stock came from a reliable source that is a pillar in the fig community.

I hope this post helps!
Vinnie

Wow, I ended up with 3 Sal's Corleone in my orchard only because of how hardy they grew.
Went from sticks/cuttings last winter and some produced figs this summer.
I can say with hands on experience the Sal's Corleone grew better than most of any of the cuttings I've started.

Might not be worth a hoot, but you got it.

Doug

SCfigFanatic sorry if I appear to be negative on the Sals C, that is not my intent.  I just prefer the Gypsy/Zingerella given my personal experience.  By the way once the Zingerella is established it grows like a weed.

Not offended.
Sal's C has been a excellent grower for me.
Just my results.

Doug

@ Vinnie, As long as it is great tasting, that's all it counts for me. Certainly if it is the real variant, even better. I
suppose there are lots of confusion regarding names as many hobbyist just go by names like dark fig, yellow,
green etc.

Here is my 2 cents.  I don't believe Sal's Corleone, Aldo's Fig, and Black Weeping are the same as Gypsy.  The fruit on my trees look and taste completely different.  HOWEVER.....I do honestly believe Sal's Corleone, Aldo's Fig, Black Weeping, and Martin's Unknown are the exact same fig. In my climate, I have them planted in the ground.  Neither of them are hardy at all.  These figs all ripen the exact same time.  They split like Brunswick when it rains and all are prolific.  All 4 figs are excellent if growing in a much dryer climate like we had in 09 and 10.

How can that be?
I ate a Sal's C fig two weeks ago, all three Sal's C have figs on them.
And mine tasted very good....and I'm only 45 miles south..or so.
 

 

 

Here's my Sa'l C
These were cuttings last winter..

Doug
edit: I was waiting for my second Sal's C to finish ripening and it has split.

I heard back from Richard Watts, as well as Gene Hosey.  Gene confirmed that his Zingarella came from Richard Watts and that he shared one with Herman2 to replace one that he got directly from RW.  Here is what Herman2 told Gene in an old email about the relationship between SalsC and Zingarella:

"Sal's Corleone is like the brother of Zingarella that did get some bad genes from one of the parents,as splitting very bad,and uglier skin color.  The Zingarella is an exceptionally good tasting fig,and also is completely immune to rain or splitting."

Hopefully Gene or Herman2 do no mind that I shared that passage - I thought it shed a bit more light on this topic of Zingarella vs. SalsC by someone who was growing both.  Zingarella was observed by him to be a superior fig.  SalsC is itself an excellent fig for a lot of growers so that is saying something.  So I think it is clear that Zingarella from RW and SalsC are not identical though they seem to share a lot of the same traits.

RW said he has indeed sent out his Zingarella to a lot of fig growers over the years.  He obtained it from Pat Shafer of Philo, CA in the mid 1990's.  RW speculates that Pat Shafer might have gotten it from UC Davis but isn't sure.  I had a quick look at the UC-Davis collection but didn't see it listed.  I suppose it could have been listed years ago though.  If anyone knows Pat Shafer then they can do a deeper investigation.

So basically we have (what appears to be) two different figs with the same name from different sources.  I don't really know of a practical way to verify which is the real one without tracing them back to Italy.  It seems that Wills has been able to trace his back to Switzerland at least!  I'm not sure how Vinnie's fig fits into this.  If anyone is growing a Zingarella that they got from Italy directly it would be interesting to see a post about that specimen.  In lieu of additional information, my proposal is to call the one from Richard Watts "Zingarella (RW)". 

Maybe some day when DNA sequencing is more routine and dirt cheap a committee of serious fig growers can establish a reference database of sequences for varieties that are known to be true to type.  Then all others whose identity is not know can be sequenced and compared to the database.  I make it sound simpler than what it would be but eventually it will be the way to go.

Hey Steve, there is one major thing that most are forgetting.......

Where Mr Watts live, so does the wasp. All figs caprified in CA taste freaking amazing! Ha!

How bout those figs!!!!!

Dennis, you are correct that we should keep the wasp in mind.  However, when I set out to get a Zingarella I was motivated by what Herman2 and others on the east coast wrote about it.  I'll definitely look forward to seeing how the RW type of Zingarella does for me.