so i did root pruning yesterday. first time ever. one thing i noticed was how broken down the soil was. this will cause few issues. water not reaching to all roots, and if water gets to the roots, it will not let it drain easily. and also it will prevent air getting to the root. and the soil is less than 2 yrs old.

as far as being root bound, i didn't see any specific issue. i think 10 gal tub should give good 3-4 yrs without roots getting bound, if not more. unless this was due to the fact that roots were having issue going though the broken down soil, but i don't think that was the issue. there were plenty of roots circling near the edge of the container.

so the question is, is it good enough just poking holes into the soil to get air and water to the root. or it is necessary to change the type of soil being used.

there used to be a big discussion about type of soil mix being used. al used to prefer gritty mix and some members use them. they won't break down as easy providing long term water drain/retention, and air. but few have found that this might not be easy to implement for few reasons. not being able to find the material near their area, not liking the weight, or whatever.

i have been using modified 5:1:1 mix. which is pine bark fine:perlite:peat moss. when i cut into the soil yesterday, i didn't see any pine bark fines. everything has broken down to the point it was just one compacted brown mess.

so what is the solution? root pruning will cut the old roots and remove the soil, about 1/3 of the root ball. but will that be enough? how about the 2/3 or the soil/root that's still in the container? they will still have an issue with water/air. i can poke holes with spikes to provide water/air, almost monthly.

i guess best option is to start with "gritty soil" that won't break down to start with. but what if that's not possible?

Pete i cannot speak on the Tapla mix .

Faster the plant grows the faster a smaller container fills with roots.

A decent growing fig plant can fill a 10g pot in 2 years and start its decline and should be rootpruned before 3rd season as a general rule.

Its not good to let peat mix get to dry for it will repel water and not let it penetrate, if plant is rootbound as well this just compounds the issue and the overall health of plant starts its decline.

With ours in 20+ containers once rootpruned and canopy pruned to match the upcoming season produces less figs, the 2nd season it does very well the 3rd season it's at height of production.
Then the next season the process of rootpruning starts all over again.

Thats if one wants to keep the fig plants in good shape .

martin,

i guess i should get busy and start root pruning properly every 3 yrs. but it was only second year those trees have been in the 10 gal. roots were not bound. it's just soil break down that was causing the issue.

i need to think about this and start coming up with better soil mix.

Pete, I noticed that if I take one of those long screw driver weed poppers and jam it down in the soil and wiggle it around helps.  I have to do that about 4 times per pot.  UPM keeps soil very loose and is never a problem but squirrles love it and will keep coming back to the same pot digging and digging planting seeds.  Martin is also correct.  If the soil gets too dry its not going to feed water to the roots.  I had a problem with drain holes getting completely clogged which is why I started converting my pots to self watering.  I wanted to convert all my pots to self watering but its kinda hard to do with you have over 400 pots.  So, this year, I will convert 100 to self watering.  Like Bass said in another thread, converting pots to self water is very time consuming and it truly is. There is so much prep work involved.  But its best to just do now vs wish I had in a middle of a season.

I'm using the same mix. I noticed the same thing this year when I was up potting. The bark seemed to break down quick. I'm also getting into the larger pots with my figs. I had a few in 10ish gallon pots last year. Their first year in that size they were up potted into them at some point last summer. They grew well, but when I checked the pots this year the pots seemed pretty full of roots. I don't know how happy they would have been this year staying in that pot, but I have seen larger trees in the same size pot. Maybe I'm just overly cautious. I am putting many trees in 15 an 25 gallon pots this year. I hope they are ok for a few seasons because I can't do this every year, lol.

Dennis, do you add anything to UPM? I am trying it straight
out of the bag.

Nope!  Straight out of the bag.  I need to go buy a few bags.  I've decided to only use it in the future on rare trees or up potting cuttings.  UPM is some amaziing stuff.  It's so light, airy and fluffy.  I love it!  Just wish it was 4 bucks a bag but it is cheaper than MG.  If I use MG or other potting mix, I always add a bucket of large perlite, a bucket of black cow, a bucket of mushoom compost, a bucket of water saver (pine bark fines) and lime.

Pete
What does broken down soil look like?  Is it a visual thing or a performance thing, like water retention, or no nutrients (I don't know how to tell that either), compaction?

Thx

Dennis, me too since Rafed recommended it. I just up potted 22 and using it and I
love the texture. Never seen any other quiet like it. I do have to get a friend in the
nursery business to order it for me. None to be found around here.

danny,

the pine bark and perlite are all broken down physically into tiny fine grained pieces. they no longer retain their orignal shape. they were compacted and does not allow aeration. this prevents water/air from getting to the roots. it looks like compressed bale of peat moss.

Pete, You might consider trying a media mix that uses coconut husk chips (CHC) instead of bark. There a number of reasons that pine or fir bark based media are not my favorites. Short life span is one. I have citrus trees that have been in the same CHC based media for over 3 years and have not experienced broken-down media as yet. I get my CHC from the Crystal Company in St. Louis.

DWD2,

never used CHC before. do they retain water? if so how well do they retain them compare to pine bark? changing the soil mix for new trees won't be too much of an issue. but for the older trees, i think that's going to be major pain.

Hi Pete

i use compost to aerate the soil and retain water.

general nursery soil soil dont have much organic material so....

since i started to use compost the soil is healthy and contains alot of snails and worms which are good.

i dont know about SIPS but i think it helps alot with all the issues we poted figs are suffering.....

maybe ill make a commitment to it next year.

I reuse my soil mixes when I pot up but i dry it (sun, spread out) and shake it through a window screen to get the really fine material out. Going to also start doing that with my perlite. It's that little stuff I find does me in with moisture retention. I also pre moisten my soil when potting up and do the "Diesler Tip" (like the Harlem Shake for watering figs) 45 degree pot tip post watering to make sure it is not soggy. 100% convinced this helps my not drown any plants. I'm moving in June but when settled in I'd like to explore drip irrigation with rain water.

i regularly add lime to the soil. Lime is said to losen up compacted ssoil. Besides, lime is alkaline which is what figs like.

I guess everyone else knows this but what is "UPM"?  Is it a type of pro-mix?

Rewton, UPM is Fertilome Ultimate Potting Mix and it is awesome. It is not carried by ANY big box stores only independents. 

I use the UPM and add about 25% more perlite to it and about a 1/4 cup garden lime to a gallon of mix.......great stuff.....

can't find UPM around here. either i'm looking at wrong place, or they are not getting to this part of NC. besides, they are little expensive just looking at online price. i'm trying to see if i can get coconut husk chip. i'm thinking maybe 4:1:1 of CHC:perlite:peat moss might be a good idea. or sub the perlite with sand. but that would add weight... readying about CHC, it holds good amount of water it seems but will act like pine bark. 

while going through the garage, found 12" screw drive i used to use while working on my truck. this thing goes through the soil rather easy. been busy poking holes into the 10 gals. this will have to do for awhile until i got my soil mix figured out. 

i might have to get some BT just to test soil mix. 

Pete, do you have any independent nurseries or a hydroponic store that can order UPM for you. I pay $14.99 for 50 dry quarts.

50 dry quarts comes little over 1.5 cu ft. $15 is about 4 times what i pay for the 1.5 cu ft of nature's helper. even with perlite and peat moss figured into the price. that's steep. i mean, i get what i paid for, quicker break down in soil media. i'm trying to figure out low cost soil mix that will get the job done. the soil mix i use works great for about 1.5 yrs, almost 2 seasons. but then they break down and start compacting. 

to loosen up, i'll have to poke holes into the soil. not much of an issue. with 12" screw driver, it wasn't all that hard. but it will compact soon. i'm sure in month or two, all the air way will close again. which still isn't much of an issue, if i make sure to aerate before the trees awake in spring, and make sure i do that every month or so. with only handful of trees in 10 gal and for almost 2 yrs, it wasn't much of a work. but it will become a chore once the number start growing. 

Pete,

Is coconut husk chip the same as coir or are they two completely different animals?

steve, 

i'm not sure. i never used coir, nor chips before. i think they are both by product of coconut shell. maybe when they say coil, it's more of the hairy stuff, and the chips are the actual shells. i know the coil is sometimes sold in pet store in compressed puck that will expand once opened. i heard they can absorb a lot of water. 

Pete, Long day. I will get a more detailed post out later today or Sunday. CHC and coir are different. CHC are chunks of a chopped-up coconut husk. Coir is the dust that results from processing the husk for long fibers of the husk. 

Pete, Potting mixes are actually a really big subject. Every component has its own plus and minuses both on its own & in combination with other components. I am not a fan of the 5-1-1 media, particularly for trees. I do not like how the water management changes over time. The top layer will dry out if you are not very careful in my experience, which really changes the dynamic of the container. Also, I prefer to grow organically which I find is more of a challenge in 5-1-1 too. My preferences aside, one can use this media and the gritty mix with great success IF properly managed.

In researching growing media, I came across people using coconut husk chips (CHC) for citrus. It is widely used by people growing orchids. The coconut is a pretty interesting entity with properties that are great for potting mixes. If you think about it, coconuts can fall in the ocean and float thousands of miles in the ocean without sinking or breaking down. Yet, if you pluck one out of the water after it has been in there any length of time, it is decidedly waterlogged. The breakdown of the coconut husk is resisted by very high levels of lignin in the husk. The pore structure of the husk is such that it can retain high volumes of both air AND water. I am attaching a discussion of CHC that essentially describes my experiences using CHC. I have apricot and citrus trees in CHC based media going 4 years without breakdown. I have had to root prune and add more media, but the old stuff, which is deeply entwined with roots, is holding up well so far. With a 5-1-1 type, I'd have changed 3 or 4 times.

CHC and coir are different materials. CHC is just chopped up coconut husks. Coir, or more correctly coir dust, is the particles left over after the long coir fibers are extracted from the coconut husk. Coir is being widely used as a peat moss substitute with great results. Coir has good CEC and, like CHC, a high lignin content. So, it is also slow to breakdown. I have used a bunch of CHC mix variations. Right now I am doing 75% CHC, 10% coir, 10% Sunland Potting Mix and 5% worm castings. There is nothing magic about those percentages. I get my media mixes tested to make sure they fall in the ranges of the HortScience paper I am attaching. Yeah, I know, I'm an anal data junkie. I know there are people who report growing in straight CHC or 80 to 90% CHC plus 10 to 20% coir to good effect. If you go with a CHC based mix, your water management will be different. You will use somewhat less water. You may have to change your fertilization regime a bit as this mix holds nutrients better in my experience than bark + peat moss based medias. You can monitor the EC of your flow through to test that. Since I grow organically, I incorporate nutrition in the mix and then top dress after that. Two other things. I do not do the epsom salt soak discussed in the attached PDF about CHC. I do wash in a similar manner to what he describes. I get my CHC and coir from Crystal Company in St. Louis too.

I hope this helps! Happy to try to answer any questions.

Good luck with your mixes!