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robertharper

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
While going through some old emails, I ran across an email from Gene Hosey.

Gene, was telling me about Kathleen's Black fig. Gene said that he Obtained the fig from a friend by the name of Kathleen, in 2001. Although she was a gardener, she did not like figs. But, had bought the fig for her husband.

Gene said she had bought the fig from one of those large mail order discount nurseries, and had bought it some 20 years earlier, 1989?

Gene also, said that Kathleen's Black died back for him, the first couple years.
But, after that  it was cold hardy in his fig orchard. He also said that it is late coming into bearing. That seems about right. Since it was the only fig we have every had winter cold kill on, it's first year in ground. We had it buried under soil like the others we winterize. In checking the historical weather data for Takoma Park, Maryland, it seems that area is zone 7. Which means from what Gene told me, Kathleen's Black should be able be grown in zone 7, without winter protection, once it has become established, and maybe zone 6 and 5 with good winter protection. 

This, is when Gene told me that once I tasted Kathleen's Black, I would feed Chicago Hardy to the pigs. I thought that was very high praise coming from some one with as many figs as Gene has.

Our tree has been in ground now for two years, with no fruit yet. But, any fig that will make me want to feed Hardy Chicago to the pigs, I can wait.

Bob, zone 5 Connecticut
noss

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Bob,

That's some good information and thanks for sharing it with us.

I wonder how KB would do down here in the heat.

noss
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noss/a.k.a. Vivian Lafayette, LA Zone 9a Wish List: Col de Dame Blanc, Col de Dame Noir, Scott's Yellow, Tony's Brown Italian, any other fig that is good in the rain/humidity and has a real figgy flavor.
theman7676

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
i wonder where can i get pigs from?
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bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 

i'll find the pigs once my tree put out some figs. i pinched KB yesterday in hope of getting some figs this year.

 

pete
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Pete
Durham, NC
Zone 7b

"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
BLB

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 

I put mine in ground a few weeks ago. I'm hoping it will be ok here in Philly this winter, with protection that is of course. I got one fig from my tree last year and it was delicious. Once this tree is producing regularly, I may just dispose of a couple others, it was that good!   
DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
So what is the REAL name of Kathleen's black?  Getting my UC Davis order ready for this year.  They don't list it.  Is it Black Mission? Black Madeira, or just plan old VdB?  VdB is the hands down most delicious fig I ever tasted!
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Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!"  Wish List:  I wish all of you happy fig collecting!  My wishes have been fulfilled!
bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 

some suggests that KB is Noire de Caromb.. so say it's not. since it's unknown, i think Gene named it Kathleen's Black.

 

pete
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Pete
Durham, NC
Zone 7b

"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
robertharper

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Correction. I was suppose to have typed in Tokoma Park, Maryland. Not Tokoma Park, Washington.

Yes, some fig collectors think it may be Noire de Caromb, including Gene. But, some collectors think it is not. 

Yes, Gene gave it the name of Kathleen's Black. Named after the person who gave it to him. Chances are there may be hundreds of Kathleen's Black out there, since Kathleen bought it from a large mail order Nursery, some twenty years ago.

Dan, a fig collector and tester in Louisiana has a fig he calls Black Beauty # 10. Some think it  may be the same as Kathleen's Black.

There appears to be a lot of confusion as to the true name of Kathleen's Black. But, one thing is constant, the outstanding taste ratings it gets from all who have tasted it. That is except for people like Kathleen, who does not like any figs, Every one else I talk to seem to think it's one of the best figs ever. A must have fig, for those who are trying to find the very best tasting figs.

I only wish it was more cold hardy. But, with taste ratings that high, I will put up with the winterizing.

Bob, zone 5 Connecticut 
DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
From Suzi Zone 9A-10?  Hot low desert, So CA.  This is a true mystery!  Wonder who can solve it?  Is it a huge tree or a smaller one?  VdB is a small tree that vigorously  produces raspberry jam tasting figs, and that is hard to beat!  Yumm!
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Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!"  Wish List:  I wish all of you happy fig collecting!  My wishes have been fulfilled!
Darkman

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
So if you have a pig and you only feed it figs would that make it a "Sweet Pig" and could you make "Pig Newtons" out of it?

I do have an easier question.

In general what do the "BLACK" figs like as far as climate?

Are any of them heat and humidity lovers with a special affinity for rain?
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Charles in Pensacola AKA Darkman
Zone 8b/9a
Winter of 09/10 low 19
Winter of 10/11 low 19
Winter of 11/12 low 29
Winter of 12/13 low 31
Winter of 13/14 low 19
DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Waiting to taste my Panachee, but the Violette de Bordeaux is Fabulous for a black.  Panachee is not black but supposedly tastes like fresh strawberries.  Dipped in white chocolate could be a winner!

Here is a recipe for Pig Newtons

Pig Newtons Recipe

Ingredients

  • 1 can of Spam can use Turkey Spam
  • 1 container Pillsbury Cresent rolls

Directions

  1. Heat oven to 350 degrees F
  2. Slice Spam into 8 slices cut each slice in half so you have 16 pieces of Spam
  3. Unroll cresent rolls and separate into 4 rectangles.
  4. Roll each rectangle to about 8 inches by 4-1/2 inches
  5. Cut each dough rectangle into 4 pieces. (2 inch x 4-1/2 inches)
  6. Place a piece of Spam in the center and wrap dough around the meat.
  7. Place seam side down on a parchment lined baking sheet.
  8. Bake for 10 minutes or until dough is browned
  9. Serve warm with Jezebel Sauce:

Ingredients

  • 12 oz jar of pineapple or apricot preserves
  • 10 jar apple jelly
  • 4 Tbsp Dijon Mustard
  • 2 Tbsp prepared Horseradish

Directions

  1. Combine the jellies in a sauce pan
  2. Warm until jelly melts
  3. Cool slightly and add Mustand and Horseradish

 
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Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!"  Wish List:  I wish all of you happy fig collecting!  My wishes have been fulfilled!
Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Kathleen Black makes larger figs compared to Mission,so is not the same.
To answer Noss,KB,is resistant to rain,and I am sure if grown in The south,it will be much happier and produce much better than in Robert Harper, Connecticut.
BLB

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 

Definitely not the same as VDB. VDB is indeed a very tasty fig, Kathleen's Black is much better to my taste.

BronxFigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
@ Robr't. Harper....and, all other previous posters:


Please post any and all new information about this elusive variety...i.e....taste evaluations, growing experiences within YOUR respective zones, hardiness, vigor, etc...

Has the variety performed well?   Did it live up to your expectations?


Herman/Vasile.....How well did this variety do for you this past season?


I'm hoping for some figs this year on a 'KB" tree that I would estimate to be at least three seasons old.  In truth, I'm hoping that this variety will be the black "version" of "Atreano-Gold"....taste-wise, and performance-wise.

So.....opinions, comments, etc.

Thanks,


Frank
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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
I wasn't impressed at first. This was the 3rd yr for my KB, and 1st yr putting on the figs. Early figs did not meet my expectation. However, the figs were improving through out the year. Figs taken during the late summer were rather nice. I'll see if the figs improve next yr.
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Pete
Durham, NC
Zone 7b

"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
robertharper

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Frank, our Kathleen's Black died to the ground last winter, again. But, put on about four feet of growth, during the summer. It has FMV. But. still puts on very a strong flush of growth for a plant with FMV. Each winter when I winterize it, I end up breaking some of the suckers. It appears that after only two years the wood is already to brittle to bend down easily.

Ours still has not bore any fruits. This fig is suppose to be one of the best tasting figs one can grow. But, I do not feel it's a fig for a beginner or a casual gardener.

At this point, I can't see it being grown in ground any farther north then maybe a 6B. If it's planted in a very protected location where the soil is dry going into the fall, and the plant is well winterized. At this point, I feel this fig, will require a lot of management for any one growing it in a location farther north then zone 7.

Bob Connecticut zone 6a/5b

Wish list:any fig that has been growing in ground unprotected in zone 5 for the last 50 years or more



 
DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Look at your PM's RobertHarper.  You and I agreed that you would send Kathleen's Black cuttings.  Am I off base?  I have it in my spreadsheet.  Something has gotten really mixed up!

Suzi
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mgginva

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Hey Bob,
Gene has/had a KB in the front yard of his house in Washington, DC. It's a nice tree. I've eaten figs from it and taken cuttings as well. It doesn't get protection and seems to do well. Most folks I've asked do not think KB is the same as a NdC as KB has larger figs, etc. 
It's a great variety. One note - never give up on the cuttings as I've had them sit as long as 8 months without showing any green whatsoever. They also tend to put out a lot of roots before any leaves appear.
FYI -- I consider KB a top ten fig. Gene considered it the best dark fig in existence.
Dan will never agree that KB is the same as his BB #10 as he says he's compared them enough to satisfy the issue. He doesn't give/sell/trade the BB #10 so I'll take his word for it.
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Michael in Virginia (zone 7a) Wish list:   Perretta, 
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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
if you guys search the forum, you will find number of threads i opened for KB. mainly because i couldn't get fig off the tree. 

my KB came from Gene H.. he rooted mine in spring of 2010. i didn't get the fig on it till summer of 2012. and that's after i changed the fertilizer and started pinching. i believe pinching did the trick. herman, barry, and others had figs off the tree without any issue, but there are other members who waited up to 5 years without figs on KB. i know herman pinches his trees. 

if your tree dies back every winter, i suggest pinching the new growth that comes up next year. that might help you to get few figs to taste. 

the KB grows very vigorously. roots and top. it grow so well that it will rather grow branches and leaves then figs. it will also put out suckers and they will grow extremely fast and will take energy off the main trunk. get rid of the suckers to focus energy on the main trunk. 

i keep mine in container so i don't have an issue of die back. 
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Pete
Durham, NC
Zone 7b

"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
BronxFigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
First....Merry Christmas to all.

Second....I'm glad I asked about this variety.  So far, I learned that  it could be a great fig....BUT... only after a long wait.  Sounds a bit temperamental to me, and might be a problem if you don't sing the right cultural tune.  A bit of a challenge and not beginner's fig, and might need some age to be at its best.  They say good things are worth waiting for....  Since I already have this tree, I will grow it, and try to get some decent figs off it....hopefully this season.


Thanks for all the updated information, and opinions, which are mixed, but generally favorable.  The Bob Harper saga told me to treat this fig with kid-gloves...until established.  But then, I'm really in a 7b-climate, and most of the time it's fairly warm in NYC/Bronx...so, maybe I will be lucky with the hardiness of this variety.   Time, and some age will tell.


I'm looking forward to the new fig season with great anticipation.  I will throw some air-layers on a fig ....growing unprotected...that's planted on the grounds of the Nursing Home where my mom resides.  It gets loaded with medium sized, dark red figs, and the few that I could manage to reach and pick, tasted sweet.  A good knosh!...with potential  Get this....if the air-layers work, I will have 5-ft. bearing-size, "trees" within a few months!  The momma tree is very large, and loaded with plenty of 10-12 ft. stems, which are unpruned, uncultivated, and neglected.  A prime target for my air-layering techniques.   That's my plan.

Thanks again, for adding to the "KB" scratch-sheet.


Frank
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Zone-7
Figfinatic

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
I would rather buy the pork that eats the discarded figs. Yum.
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Grasa

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
oink oink, here waiting for the HC!
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Grasa
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Merry Christmas to all my friends!

This thread pops up from time to time. Both Hardy Chicago and Kathleen Black are keen supreme figs. Fig trees get better with time and proper maintenance care....they can truly taste amazing. I got a couple of Hardy Chicago fig trees that will make you beg for more like a crack addict! But my KB does rein supreme.
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Dennis
Charlotte, North Carolina/Zone 8a 
BronxFigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
OH DENNIS.......

Just curious....

At what stage, approximately, were your "Kathellen's Black" and "Hardy Chicago" when they were planted?   Were they small trees, cuttings, etc.  How long did you grow them before you harvested decent fruit?  How old are they now?  In-ground....containerized...winter protection?


Frank
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Frank, Frank, Frank. I got a couple of KBs and a couple of HCs. Here is the info you wanted.

Mama Kathleen Black
Where: In the ground
Age: 4yrs old
Age when planted: 2yrs old
When did fruit start? right at 2yrs
Winter protection: yes in 2011, no in 2012

Baby KBs
Where: 30 and 5 gallon containers
Age: 2yrs and 1yr
Age when planted: 1yr and cutting
When did fruit start? none and none
Winter protection: none and greenhouse

Mama Hardy Chicago 1
Where: In the ground
Age: 5yrs old
Age when planted: 3yrs old
When did fruit start? 1yrs
Winter protection: yes in 2011, no in 2012

Big Daddy Hardy Chicago 1
Where: 30g pot
Age: 5yrs old
Age when planted: 2yrs old
When did fruit start? right at 1yrs
Winter protection: none

Big Daddy Hardy Chicago 2
Where: 30g pot
Age: 5yrs old
Age when planted: 2yrs old
When did fruit start? right at 1yrs
Winter protection: none

Big Daddy Hardy Chicago 3
Where: 30g pot
Age: 5yrs old
Age when planted: 2yrs old
When did fruit start? right at 1yrs
Winter protection: none

Hardy Chicago figs are very rich. All 4 of my big dudes are in 30g self watering pots. Each produced a lot of figs this year. In these pots, my trees are around 7' tall. My trees came from Dave Wilson Nursery in California. My KBs came from VS.
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Dennis
Charlotte, North Carolina/Zone 8a 
BronxFigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Dennis.....

Just read the particulars about your trees.  Thanks for taking the time to give me, et al., such complete information...I really appreciate your being so thorough.  Also, thanks for giving me the source/retailer of your figs.

I'm hoping for some good, figgy things to happen with my "KB" this season.  Maybe i will get to see a fig, or, two, by the summer months.  Both varieties sound very promising, then rewarding, after the waiting-period.

It's all a big adventure to me...but, it's also fun.



Frank
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