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Largest indoor fig orchards? Largest 'wide variety' outdoor fig orchards?

I'm having trouble finding info about these two topics.  Anybody know the answers?

1) How big is the largest indoor fig operation in the United States, and who is it?  'Largest' can mean biggest number of trees, most tonnage of fruit, most varieties, or most covered acres.  The largest I've come across is our own member here, moshepherdess, who as of late 2008 had one 30'x100' high tunnel filled with figs and another such tunnel about 25% filled with figs.  [extra credit for naming the largest in the world; would it be somewhere in Israel?]

2) How about the largest 'wide variety' outdoor operations in the U.S.?  I think Jon, Harvey, FMD, and Snaglpus have the largest private collections that I know of.  UC Davis has a very big collection; is it the largest 'wide variety' fig orchard in the U.S.?  And how big is the biggest monocrop or 'few varieties' orchard?  I'm pretty sure I've seen mention of big industrial outdoor fig operations that have many thousands of acres.  Is that accurate, and if so, just how big are they?

Given my unsuccessful googling on these topics, I'm hoping some of you happen to already know the answers to these questions.

Thanks!

All the production farms are in California.
Don't know the largest officially,
do know of one fig orchard that is around 100 acres.
Average size orchard is about 30 acres.
Largest in the world is probably in Turkey.

Indoor-  I think this is the wrong terminology on several fronts,
and thus would produce an incorrect answer.
Indoor would imply year round climate protection/control.

High tunnel is really a season extender, and not indoors  IMO,
as during the summer months, a high tunnel anywhere in the country,
would get too hot and roast the trees.   These tunnels, green houses, etc
are opened and even ventilated as well during this time period.
That would be more like growing under a covered car port with a clear roof,
not really  "indoors"  IMO.

Besides high tunnels, I have figs planted in the ground in 16' x 100' hoop houses.
They are covered with  white plastic for the winter, which is removed in the spring,
then the hoop house is covered in bird netting.
Would this be indoors ?

How would that be different that having a green house filled with figs,
and having the glass roof open all summer to vent the heat ?
We would automatically consider a greenhouse fig tree to be indoors,
but its treated no differently with respect to cover and protection,
then my hoop house situation,  which many would say, including myself  is  not indoors.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFin


1) How big is the largest indoor fig operation in the United States, and who is it? 
'Largest' can mean biggest number of trees,

With this criteria, the answer is easy,
I can't tell you who, but I can tell you what.

A tissue culture laboratory would have the biggest number of trees actually indoors.

One more question  :-)

Which is bigger ?

A.  High tunnel 30 x 96'  with 60 trees producing fruit planted in the ground.

B.  High tunnel  30 x 96'   with 5,000 trees in containers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryjack

One more question  :-)

Which is bigger ?

A.  High tunnel 30 x 96'  with 60 trees producing fruit planted in the ground.

B.  High tunnel  30 x 96'   with 5,000 trees in containers.



By your own criteria it would be the one that produces the most tonage of fruit. I would imagine that is the tunnel with 60 inground trees. The other one could be called the orchard with the greatest diversity.

However, you will need to diferenceate between orchards and collections. In my mind an orchard is a planting of trees that focuses on fruit production, which is significantly different than a collection which focuses on diversity.

Of course I am a writer and an anthropologist so I can parse words all day and not get you any closer to your goal ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryjack

B.  High tunnel  30 x 96'   with 5,000 trees in containers.


I would not call that an orchard, sounds more like a nursery.  Unless they are stacked in multiple levels somehow each plant has less than a square foot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryjack

Indoor-  I think this is the wrong terminology on several fronts,
and thus would produce an incorrect answer.
Indoor would imply year round climate protection/control.


High tunnel is really a season extender, and not indoors  IMO,
as during the summer months, a high tunnel anywhere in the country,
would get too hot and roast the trees.   These tunnels, green houses, etc
are opened and even ventilated as well during this time period.
That would be more like growing under a covered car port with a clear roof,
not really  "indoors"  IMO.

Besides high tunnels, I have figs planted in the ground in 16' x 100' hoop houses.
They are covered with  white plastic for the winter, which is removed in the spring,
then the hoop house is covered in bird netting.
Would this be indoors ?

How would that be different that having a green house filled with figs,
and having the glass roof open all summer to vent the heat ?
We would automatically consider a greenhouse fig tree to be indoors,
but its treated no differently with respect to cover and protection,
then my hoop house situation,  which many would say, including myself  is  not indoors.

 


Thanks for the reply hungryjack.  I should have worded things differently to avoid such issues.  A long either/or statement would have been clearer.  I was using the term 'indoor' as a very general catch-all meant to include any of the following, with posters then hopefully telling me which applies best to the particular operations they name:

traditional greenhouses or solar greenhouses or high tunnels or hoophouses or vertical farms or any other structure (actively heated or passively heated or unheated) used to grow crops under plastic or glass or twin-wall polycarbonate, etc.

Even that enlarged statement is far from perfect, but hopefully it does a better job of conveying what operations I'm curious about. 

Operations that cover their figs for only part of the year are still worth mentioning, though I don't think it's worth trying to assign them to a particular class name in this thread.  I would just say that the more months they're covered, the more relevant they are to what I'm curious about, so just use your own discretion as to whether you want to mention them in this thread or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryjack

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFin


1) How big is the largest indoor fig operation in the United States, and who is it? 
'Largest' can mean biggest number of trees,

With this criteria, the answer is easy,
I can't tell you who, but I can tell you what.

A tissue culture laboratory would have the biggest number of trees actually indoors.


I should have enlarged my definition yet further, to clearly convey that I'm curious about fruiting trees; more specifically, the operations that specialize in fruit production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryjack

One more question  :-)

Which is bigger ?

A.  High tunnel 30 x 96'  with 60 trees producing fruit planted in the ground.

B.  High tunnel  30 x 96'   with 5,000 trees in containers.


Given my clarification for your previous question, 'B' would be eliminated since that would be a nursery with tiny trees meant for resale rather than immediate production.

If I change your current question slightly to get at another relevant clarification and say A has 60 production trees planted in-ground and B has 120 production trees in containers, then they both may qualify for mention, since I said that 'largest' can be either most trees or most tonnage of fruit.  So the nation's largest operations utilizing in-ground fruit production are not in direct competition with the largest operations using potted fruit production in this context, they just win different categories.


16,000 grams of fig fruit in 2 years in a high tunnel in New Jersey, 2011-2012, 44 x 14 foot -- Maurice Sheets at Woodland Produce, Fairton, NJ: 
http://mysare.sare.org/mySARE/ProjectReport.aspx?do=viewRept&pn=FNE11-727&y=2012&t=1

Quote:
Originally Posted by hllyhll
16,000 grams of fig fruit in 2 years in a high tunnel in New Jersey, 2011-2012, 44 x 14 foot -- Maurice Sheets at Woodland Produce, Fairton, NJ: 
http://mysare.sare.org/mySARE/ProjectReport.aspx?do=viewRept&pn=FNE11-727&y=2012&t=1

Thank you for the link :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hllyhll
16,000 grams of fig fruit in 2 years in a high tunnel in New Jersey, 2011-2012, 44 x 14 foot -- Maurice Sheets at Woodland Produce, Fairton, NJ: 
http://mysare.sare.org/mySARE/ProjectReport.aspx?do=viewRept&pn=FNE11-727&y=2012&t=1


First clue, whenever you see a harvest expressed in grams,
its most likely a government inspired or sponsored project that failed.

16,000 grams = 571 ounces

571 ounces = 35 pounds

35 pounds of figs are worth   $50 to at most $300

The wear and tear on the plastic for the high tunnel
was more money than the value of the harvest.

Even without capitol costs included,
just water, fertilizer, plastic, labor
probably puts their productions costs around $35-40 per pound.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFin
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryjack

One more question  :-)

Which is bigger ?

A.  High tunnel 30 x 96'  with 60 trees producing fruit planted in the ground.

B.  High tunnel  30 x 96'   with 5,000 trees in containers.


Given my clarification for your previous question, 'B' would be eliminated since that would be a nursery with tiny trees meant for resale rather than immediate production.

If I change your current question slightly to get at another relevant clarification and say A has 60 production trees planted in-ground and B has 120 production trees in containers, then they both may qualify for mention, since I said that 'largest' can be either most trees or most tonnage of fruit.  So the nation's largest operations utilizing in-ground fruit production are not in direct competition with the largest operations using potted fruit production in this context, they just win different categories.




Some orchards to propagate their own material for planting,
so those 5,000 trees could be  for planting and not resale.

Not sure who is investing money to cover large amounts of figs for fruit production.
Little reason to protect them from rain, like with tomatoes,
so I don't think you will find much covered production in  warm areas or ones with ideal
growing conditions.   Especially so in California, where 90% of the crop is sold for processing.
Might have to look at colder or more marginal growing areas, in a part of the world,
that puts a high value on FRESH figs for consumption.   
China or Japan would be a possible guess,
China because of gov't sponsored programs to supply high tunnels and greenhouses to farmers,
Japan due to the consumers demand for perfection when it comes to produce.

There's a guy in St Louis who has figs in a greenhouse but I don't have any more info than that.

hungryjack - I bet you're right about the biggest covered producers being in Japan or China.  There's a thread or two floating around here that show a Japanese family's small operation (maybe 3-6k sqft under plastic?), but such methods are not uncommon over there, so I suspect that there are some much larger ones.  And I could certainly imagine some large covered operations in China subsidized by their government.

rcantor - I think the St. Louis guy is Ivan Stoilov ( http://www.theledger.com/article/20080910/NEWS/809100358 ), whose wife (?) is F4F member moshepherdess, but I'm not 100% certain.

Here's a funny excerpt from another article about Stoilov ( http://www.saucemagazine.com/blog/?p=12421 ):

Quote:
I made the mistake one time of buying fresh figs at the Tower Grove Farmers’ Market from Ivan Stoilov of Ivan’s Fig Farm in Dittmer, Mo. Well, the mistake wasn’t actually buying the figs; the mistake was telling Stoilov what I had planned for them. I told him that I planned to roast them and fold them into some goat cheese ice cream. He looked at me in horror. “Doing anything to those figs would be a crime,” he said, snatching them back out of my hand and only returning them after I promised to serve them, unadorned, alongside the ice cream.


F4F member Ingevald visited Stoilov and wrote up a great thread about it here: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/figs-and-the-solar-geothermal-greenhouse-3072396?pid=29664604#post29664604

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFin
hungryjack - I bet you're right about the biggest covered producers being in Japan or China.  There's a thread or two floating around here that show a Japanese family's small operation (maybe 3-6k sqft under plastic?), but such methods are not uncommon over there, so I suspect that there are some much larger ones.  And I could certainly imagine some large covered operations in China subsidized by their government.


I think in China you might find the largest single covered fig orchard,
land is plentiful there in agricultural areas,
but Japan will probably have more total acres under cover than China,
just in smaller sized orchards, land is tight and large tracts of land are rare.
Almost all fruits and veggies grown in Japan are done under row covers,
hoop houses, or individual fruits/veggie being protected on the plant.
If its not perfect in appearance it sells for price that does not cover expenses.

There are very few situations where the expense of growing figs
covered is warranted by the market.  They are not very productive
on a sq ft basis  compared to many other crops grown covered.
Same could be said for most tree fruits.
It works with some berry crops to bring them in early or late to
garner the higher prices to offset the expenses.

I grow some figs in hoop houses in NJ,
I'm using already established houses that currently have no other use.
It helps with winter protection and bird protection when I use the netting.
I get the plastic for free, the netting is used fishing nets I get for free,
and the hoop houses have no cost as they are already installed.
If I had to pay for half of those supplies, it wouldn't be worth it,
even with selling the figs for extremely high prices to high end restaurants.
Labor is also a big factor with fig production for fresh market.

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