I am here for the figs for fun! If others are here for other reasons, they should have a second look at how they approach the forum.

Lets have fun, everyone?

This will go on forever, hijacking the moderator is not the answer. Show some respect for the formation of the Foundation and the moderator. This forum would not exist if it was not for Jon. There are just too many conflicts when it comes to appointing co-moderators, who appoints? will it be fair?? will everyone be pleased?? who is the best lobbyist?? will it be someone who has chosen sides and posted so?? come on, give me a break and let's talk figs,  stop the divide and let's move on, or are we going to keep on keeping on?

I come here to relax and discuss figs. What a great forum for learning and sharing. My hope is that everyone has a positive experience when they visit and not let our different personalities get in the way of what we all came here for, our love of figs. It's hard to find civil discussions on the web with such diverse and passionate feelings of how the world should turn, but here, we are talking about a simple shared interest. It really is best to be kind and tolerant of different types of people. Some people are going to rub you the wrong way, but better to ignore or kindly state your concern. In my own home we have loud and intense personalities and quiet reserved ones. Not always easy, but we have to work together to keep the home running smooth. We can only really control how we react. There are forum rules everyone has to follow, those that can't should be made aware of how it can negatively affect things here. I like the diversity of this forum, it's great that people of different backgrounds and ideas can create a community on what we all seem to agree on, figs are fun :)

Mike in Hanover, VA

And all this is in response to one person taking a crap in his own backyard, stepping on it and bringing it into the house.
Followed by those before him leaving because of the smell
Those who stayed tried to clean up the mess were dealt with a heavy hand.
And when the stinch got out of hand he went on to knock on the next doors looking for help.
Crying foul and pleading for help.
Making look as though he's the victim.

Sad part about is that the newbies coming in are totally oblivious to what's going on here. Think this is normal.

No person in the history of this forum has been so controversial in such a short period that's he's been here. It seems every other week.
I have nothing personal against Aaron. Only thing I don't like is what the argument at hand is.

When Jon himself doesn't feel there is something wrong with this behavior then all hope is lost. There is no sense in arguing about it.
Fig naming at will by some people seems acceptable. Misinformation also seems acceptable.

I can go in and on and on.

I've had enough folks.
I will try to make it back later tonight to post my last and final thread by saying goodbye.
Otherwise it will be tomorrow.

I cannot support a place that encourages misleading, misinforming and fig naming at will.
That's just not me.

Its ashame to loose members who have so much to contribute, i wish folks could find a better way to work this out. Im taking no sides here with my thoughts on this.

Most of us can agree it is important to always clearly state that a fig find is an unknown, for the benefit of those who might get to grow it. If they are not shared, it matters much less what someone calls them, though still should be labelled UNK to avoid confusion. Nothing wrong in my mind with sharing photos and experiences of unknown finds, and looking for identification if possible. That being said, it's also good to be open to ideas and knowlege of members who have been here a while. They likely have more experience growing figs, but that doesn't always make them right. There should be no problem with saying we disagree with information someone shares. Sometimes new ideas are better than the old ones. I personally do plenty of research before I accept too much of what someone is saying. There are sometimes when someone doesn't follow proper etiquette, and they should be alerted in a civil way. Those that cant see thier own flawed behavior, others can surely see it, and ideally someone close can point this out to them in a way they can hear it without getting defensive. I have only been back on the f4f forum a few months since a 3 or 4 year period away, so I can't say that I fully understand the full story here, but I hope we can all stick around and find a way to keep sharing our ideas and experiences with figs. I know we all have something to contribute.

Mike in Hanover, VA

I endured the members who made things hostile here last year and previous to that. Those times were rough, but I stayed. Now is worse. I have watched as Aaron has twisted this forum and manipulated members into seeing his misinformation and chaos as the work of an "asset." Indeed, his passive-aggressive toying and flooding of the threads with crap information have either mesmerized or worn down most folks here. I have witnessed friends attacked for no good reason and then told to "chill" when they try to defend their honor. Did it get personal? Absolutely. And it should, if one has any honor or self-worth.

The sad thing is that people have flocked to Aaron to get into his good graces, because they lust for his numerous fancifully-named and unproven cuttings. (And that is being kind, as he continues to create exotica where there is none.) We all like to get new figs, but this place is like a fish farm. As soon as someone presents the feed (cuttings), everyone in the pool thrashes with mouths open, struggling to get to the front and grab that morsel. I find the begging sad, shameful and distasteful. It's just sticks. Adults should have a little more self-respect, for god's sake. I have said this to people many times - If I never get another new fig, I am good. It's just fruit; and I am fortunate to have acquired good figs from good people here. The figs were a side benefit to those who have become friends. Perspective. It's just fruit.

I've been on the edge of leaving this forum before. I always gave in and stayed. Jon's response is the last straw. It's his forum; he can run it (or not) any way he sees fit. However, I am afraid that I have no further time or energy to waste on a place that has been taken over by such nonsense. Frankly, I am upset that so many have been duped by this Pied Piper. I thought better of our members. This no longer fun. I am done.

If any friends wish to keep in touch with me, please PM or email me your contact info. I'll check for 24 hours, then I am gone. Best wishes to all.

Selfishly, I hope that all members who are contemplating leaving the forum, will reconsider. You may not realize just how valued your thoughts and expertise are to the community, especially us newbies.

I don't think anyone should be quitting the forum because of Aaron. That assigns far more importance to his antics than he deserves. By that logic, eventually this will become the "Aaron and his acolytes fig forum." Polite, pointed criticism is the only way to deal with misguided or misinformed souls. Or just ignore them. I see nothing wrong with chopping him down to size as long as it does not descend into impoliteness. It even says too much to credit him with naming unknown figs. He is just sharing pictures of neighborhood figs. Whaddya gonna do???

Its more than just naming conventions and its enforcement or lack thereof. Its also the poor behavior of a few Forum Members.

I have stayed an active member mainly because of the kindness of one member when I first Joined the forum community. IMO, its more the unnecessary frustration that causes members to be less active or to leave and that is an option that we all have available to us.

Rafed,

I also hope you reconsider.  You are one of the most generous members of this Forum and your leaving would be a real loss.  We need our senior members.  They keep us enriched with their experience and knowledge.  

Most members are respectful when posting.  I ignore the ones that are not.  If a member feels that there is an issue that needs to be addressed, they can contact the moderator or private message the perceived offender.   I don't think additional moderators are necessary.  With such diverse personalities found on any Forum, there is bound to be some friction from time to time.  

Constructive criticism and the correction of misinformation, as well as, helpful advice, is necessary. Everyone, especially newbies, can benefit.  We are all here with one common interest:  FIGS!  




 

Maybe we should create a sub-forum related to politics............ok, maybe not. 

I hope everyone who is discussing leaving would reconsider.

Perhaps ignoring a problem and providing accurate information otherwise is the best solution rather than giving in and leaving the misinformation to grow unchecked.

Rafed, at day's end this is a public forum and no one can be forced to do anything, whether we like it or not.

Hopefully you'll stay, your knowledge is great and I've heard your generosity is too. Your leaving would be a greater loss than the gain of some leaving.

JTP, I hope you reconsider for the same reasons.

The more good info here will drown out the bad.

I wish bad seed could be voted out.

Bad information will not go away, it will only confuse the facts for the future.


Doug

I am WillsC and yes I am uncivil to Aaron.    

I have been here almost 2 years...I have 1200 posts or so and ask yourself have I ever been uncivil to you?  Has a new person ever PM'ed me for advice or asked on a thread and I have ignored them or not answered?  Been mean to you?  Called you names?  Come forward......post the thread.  Have I been uncivil to any of you in a thread?  Post it.........    The only person I can think of that might say something is Desert Dance after she attacked me in my own thread when I was doing an auction for the foundation, yes I was attacked for giving away my own money for charity and raising a couple hundred to help Jon.    Here is the thread if you want to see how Mean I was:) http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/cutting-auction-6857344?&trail=50

Aaron is enthusiastic, I like that about him and have said so many times on the board but he also has only been growing figs for a few months, heck he has not even had a fig from his own plants yet.  His plants are tiny even though many months old but that does not matter as he went from newbie to self appointed world fig expert in a matter of weeks.  He has now gone back through his posts and removed a lot of his posts to try to cover that fact up.  Think it is the duty of members to stand up when he starts giving advice that is false, misleading or unsupported by his experience level.   For crying out loud after one time rooting cuttings he stated that he had a 100% success rate that was fool proof  to root and grow cuttings, that folks is simply not the way it works and it is misleading to those new to the hobby.  He then starts making up his own names for figs and that is when the trouble started.  The ironic part is because he lives where the wasp is present 99% of the people he sent cuttings to won't get the same results as they don't have the wasp.  They will grow out the plants and it will turn out to be a known variety,  sub par or average variety without the wasp and which now has yet another name and adds to the confusion.  When he starts telling us his XXXX "made up name fig"  is a 9/10......compared to what?  The 5 other fig varieties he has tried in his life?    Aaron seems to want to skip the learning stage of this hobby and go right from newbie to world authority and that is not the way it works.  Credibility is built over time, it is earned. 

We tried to get him to simply add UNK before these figs that he is self naming and posting.  We asked, begged, pleaded for months privately and then publicly.....it was not until things became heated that he finally decided ok he would add a single U not UNK like everyone else does but just a U.  why? just because he has to have it his own way and can't be wrong.   Does that not tell the story right there?  That single U and the MONTHS it took to get to that point should speak volumes to anyone willing to listen.   Do you not understand why some of us are rubbed raw and have lost our patience?  Not to mention his emailed threats and name calling.......of course he likes to go back and erase those posts and then play the victim.  

New people are what keep a board fresh and I for one will always embrace them and try to help them as best I can but for many things I have to defer to those with much more knowledge on the subject than I have.  I know some don't feel as welcoming about newbies and they are entitled to their opinion.   Would you stand up and say something to warn the new people they are being misled and taking advice from someone who has almost zero experience growing figs or would you instead out of civility or worse the hope of receiving cuttings remain silent?

Aaron has now chased away some dear friends, some of the most knowledgeable people on this board, friends that have real long term knowledge and know of what they speak and the community is greatly reduced because of that.   They have been replaced by this.....

Some members come in new and by virtue of their scientifically oriented career act as though they know much more than they do. It's frustrating and comical at the same time. Ain't no experience as good as hands on experience, doing a thing for years counts in my book more than a bunch of talk.

A lot of good information gets discussed even while forum members are having their heated discussions or "arguments".  As long as it stays on topic and professional, disagreements can still be productive.
I'm typically reading these discussions in "non real time" after they've occurred.  At about the time I'm picking up that things are going astray, someone else has usually posted:  "How 'bout them figs?"  (see post #3 above) This should be a clear indication to the posters involved and to uninvolved readers that not only have they gone off topic, but they've done so in an extremely non-constructive way (i.e. childish, mean-spirited) that has devolved into personal attacks rather than constructive disagreements.  Anyone can post a nice, bold, single-lined post saying "How 'bout them figs?"  Ideally (in a perfect world) it should at least serve as a flag to the "attackers" and "defenders" that they're going astray and maybe ought to change their approach.  For the rest of us, maybe seeing two or three "How 'bout them figs?" postings in a thread will indicate that the thread may not be worth reading.  In this small way we all serve the role of moderator.
Jim

Barry you are correct, there is no better teacher than experience.

Wills, Rafed, jtp,
I like your posts and information you share. Please stay around. Wills, you haven't talked of leaving, but it goes the same, you have contributed some really interesting stuff on the forum. I also want to add that I did notice the fact that you have not been harsh to others previously.

Will, I should have mentioned you too as I supported several others, you too have been vocal in this issue. I initially didn't really see what the big deal was, I thought overenthusiasm. I tried to post a helpful, constructive comment and was essentially called stupid.  I don't take well to being called stupid, especially from someone who has far less experience and knowledge than I do (not all figs, but 10 years of professional nursery experience and a Horticulture degree). Naming conventions are a touchy subject in any area of plants (see the conifer forum on GW, god help you if you mis-type and drop an "a" from the end of something), but helpful comments should be taken as help, not rebuffed and insulted.

I am starting understand the plight of the experienced members of the forum.  Reading back through previous postings I see the issues and insults are quite intolerable. If I may assist, please let me know. In the meantime, I would say I at the very least appreciate the knowledge shared from all you experienced members (too many to list), but I would hope you know who you are.

Sigh.

How 'bout them figs.

A little over a year ago I was not sure how long I had to live. Doctors could not figure out why I had lost 70lbs over 3 years and death was starting to knock at my door. I have since had a partial recovery without explanation and still need to gain 20lbs to look normal. For all those who entertain themselves by degrading and demeaning their fellow humans I pray that you will learn what I have about what really matters in life. When you feel the life draining from you day by day your attitude changes quickly. I sit here writing this in the very spot my father died in 1995, his hospice bed was in my living room. We will all die someday and when it gets close you will think back with some regrets and wish you had done better. The world is becoming a very evil place and if you have not yet found God I urge you to ask him to reveal himself to you. I have had many incredible encounters with God in my life and have NO DOUBT that he exists. To all who do not believe I can say that without question Jesus really did exist, that is indisputable. Who he is to you is the big question that you need to answer. Try to make the world a better place, have patience with those who are not up to your standards. One of the most amazing thing's that ever happened to me in a church service is when the preacher had everyone there say out loud" we are all weird". Get over yourself, we are all a little screwed up in one way or another.
God Bless All
Larry 

I like your preacher!  Prayers for your recovery, Larry.

Suzi

Ok...now that all the things have been said and I let it boil to this point...
let me clarify one thing!
Everytime I bring up a new fig to the forum and tell the intro story, I always add " If you can help me Identify this true variety would be greatly apreciated ..." you can check them yourself.
There are few figs that had names that the owners had given and to their respect I have kept as it was told to me but most were named after the streets or the area they were found in. I dont see anything being wrong with that.
As to what concerns edditing and deleting some posts, yes I have done them because of the unacceptable wording and humiliating comments that were used against me or other members and had derailed the thread out of the main focus.
Anyone is free to leave or come as they please, just dont use this place as your anger release place. This is not your psychologists office to get your therapy.
As it has been mentioned above by many members , I merely try to bring in what I found to be interesting find and share with the members. And again I always ask to share if anyone can Identify this variety.

Now having said all this, regardless of what Will, Jack or whoever else misinterpret the content of a thead to use to their advantage to prove a point. Just stop spreading your venom around .. get over with your lives already.