Recently there has been considerable discussion on the different leaf shapes from Genovese Nero grown by different people.  It is my belief that all of the growers obtained trees from the same source, either directly or indirectly.

I don't pay much attention to different leaf forms on trees out in the orchard but usually see differences in shaded areas, etc.  The most obvious mutation (?) I've noticed is my Panache which has one branch that forms variegated leaves.

This past year I acquired cuttings of Wuhan from one member here and Nero 600m from another member.  I confirmed that all cuttings came from the same tree but leaf shapes on the resulting trees varied.

I asked Marcus (71GTO) if I could share his photos of his mother Nero 600m and he agreed.  See photos below.  All photos are of the same tree.

I'm curious if such leaf differences (EDIT: i.e., consistently different leaves on different branches) are the result of genetic mutations, expressions of FMV symptoms, or just other environmental factors.

 
 
 

 

Raspberry Latte leaves. Same tree, same soil, same fertilizer, same water, and weather (as close as it could ever get) because they are from the same tree. Don't know what the variable is.

For my figs, it is the speed of growth.
The very fast growers produce 1-3 lobed leaves and slow 3-5 lobed leaves. Accidentally, the fast guys are more exposed to the sun.
One of my good examples is an Unk. Union Berry. I can post the photos later today. The fertilizer is the same.
Some figs are displaying this behavior and some are more stable though.

There seems to be genetic variations in plants.  Some varieties are referred to as genetically unstable. 

A fig grower told me that he had dark fig and a cutting he grew from it mutated to a very nice green fig?

I have seen many fig leaf shapes especially on my in ground trees.  I figured it was because disease/insect attacks at different stages, or stressed for whatever reason at different stages, water availability, heat .... Maybe it is a combination of environment and genetics?

The raspberry latte seems confused. Not sure if it wants to be a fig or a maple tree LOL.

I can understand how the envornment can play a role in different growth patterns from the same plant. With veggies they say it takes 3 years for the plants to acclimate. Of course thats from seed.

My best guess is that figs have these variations in their genes so they can adapt to different climates and weather patterns. Basically I agree with Pino..


In the beginning how many varieties of figs were there? 1? Are all of the different varieties just mutations of the first. Or did figs just spring up everywhere around the world with lots of different varieties and flavors?

Harvey,
This has been a very entertaining issue for me for several months now.
Here's what my observation on same 4 varieties that I have been experimenting with (each are from one whip giving 3 cuttings=12)
So I have them in different exposures in the garden and I noticed:

1- Larger leaves under semi-shade area.
    Softer leaves under semi-shade area.
    Developed fine-velvety and soft surface.

2- Smaller leaves under full sun exposure.
    Rougher surface on the leaves.
    Much darker greens.
     
3- When FMV present, the leaf shape changed. Sometimes on same plant there are different shape leaves, the ones with FMV branch had narrow and longer fingers  but the mother tree still has shorter fingers (this particular one I noticed on the Unknown that I had pulled out of Ivy bed from Glendale Courthouse).
    on another variety of Pasteliere, when there is FMV, the same leaf can have 2 parts, one with shriveled and shorter side to it.
    Another variety Unknown Italian, one of the cuttings produced  VdB-like leaves where the other cuttings of same variety were rounded lobed and large leaves with NO FMV.

So, maybe presence of FMV, sun exposure and Nutrients may play a major role on variations of leaves on each tree.

One thing for sure... each tree has more that one type of Lobe divisions on leaves. That's the reason , when I catalogue my fig varieties I put all the leaves from that branch in one picture to provide all the different shapes of leaves that the tree can have.
    
    

HarveyC,
Yes, Viral infection, Culture, Temperature and Nutrient availability all have a direct effect on Fig leaf morphology.

In my observations, faster growth usually results in increased sinus definition, while slower growth or emergence results in less definition, decreased lobes.
  .
Colder weather and slower growth of Brown Turkey EL resulted in 3 lobed leaves while faster growth and warmer weather resulted in deeper sinuses and increased lobes, this was also typical of most container grown cultivars.

There are a few cultivars, Bordeaux types, that seem to produce entire leaves on individual branches as part of those cultivars' leaf morphology.

Similarly each cultivar will produce leaves within a specific range of shapes and when associated with the figs that are produced, it can be be used to help ID the variety.

Pete,
That’s funny, what you said about the lobes is opposite to what I observed.

A similar question but in the case of White Oaks. Google for 
"white oak leaf shape variability viscosi”  I just do not know how to paste the link to a pdf here.

They refer to the genetics amplified by the environment.

Aaron - Out of what you listed only FMV should cause leaf shape changes, however FMV free plants will still have varying leaf shape. Light levels affect thickness on ALL plants, should not change leaf shape. The primary factor in these phenotypic changes is likely genetics.

Pete - I'm with Igor, my observation is new rapid growth (especially suckers) seems the least defined with the fewest lobes. Not always, but that's the trend.


I believe that mature, lignified wood results in leaves that heavily lobed and most typical of the variety. Close nodes and slower growth seem to result in these leaves as well. From my experience rapid growth, especially from suckers, has leaves that are lacking in lobes or have fewer lobes than typical. It is possible that suckers are immature wood so the leaves will be an immature form. Not a perfect explanation, but it would make sense that the plants genetically have a range of leaf shapes they can express given varying maturity and environmental factors. 

Has anyone noticed a difference in fruiting times for cuttings taken from the same plant with different leaf shapes?

There is no cause. I believe it is what it is. Who said they all have to be the same? Some might chalk it up to juvenility. Sassafras does the same thing.

Sassafras

Greenfig, Kelby,
Young suckers sometimes produce early juvenile leaves that are often less defined that older or mature leaves, that has been my observation.
IMO fig leaf shapes for an individual cultivar can be placed into at least five groups, Emergent, Juvenile, Slow growing, Fast growing and Mature (from older wood)
  .
Celeste juvenile leaves and older mature leaves on the same cultivar typical.

   .
Unknown BryantDark leaves on several different rooted cuttings and the Mature leaves.

.
Celeste juvenile leaves.

  .
Unknown TimLight leaves, different leaf shapes on same trunks.

Indeed very interesting subject.

I'm thinking maybe every fig variety has the potential to adopt and change it's leaves...I've seen enough of similar phenomenon to lean towards that.

We haven't even compared leaf count and age to different shapes , according to growth stages....
*Needs to be compared:
Different variety branches with same growth age so we can see and compare leaf sequence of each... (Leaf#1 with Leaf #1) and (Leaf#2 with Leaf#2) etc...
For example , I have seen (and I am sure that you have all...as well) new leaf that is a little round thang, the 2nd is a bit Oval then 3rd is a heart shaped and 4th...with 3 lobes then 5, 6, 7 with 5 lobes or still 3 lobes (just bigger in size)...these types of growth stage changes are a very regular thing for my garden...but what happens when FMV interferes...or Nutritional deficiency comes in or too much sun or not enough sun..things change, they normal growth stage changing pattern gets disturbed and nothing is regular anymore.

My Raspberry Latte also looks like the one Jon posted.

here's an example of how out of regular growth patterns a random branch can take a different path,(cause unknown to me yet...) notice the smaller branch in the lower middle, the leaves are of a totally different proportion but Lobe counts still match with the general pattern.

Harvey you have struck a nerve. Recently, my wife wanted me to give a fig to a friend of hers and I pointed out two I started recently (not this spring, but the spring before--so 1 1/2 years old). She asked which would be best and I said it didn't matter, they were the same fig. She said they can't be, the leaves are completely different. However, these are both VdB, both taken from the same tree (different limbs). Same culture, location, sun, fertilizer, etc. Yet the leaves are all entirely different. The same holds true for the older fig they were taken from, some limbs have entirely one leaf shape, other limbs a different leaf shape.  So I think something else is going on besides just juvenile leaves (which will tend to be more mulberry type sometimes. I think at times the cuttings repeat the leaf shape of the limb they were taken from, at least for a while.
    Vdb 1/2 year mulberry leaves   VdB 1 1/2 yr. lobed leaves   VdB mother plant  limb on mother plant   Figs from VdB

You may have something Scott, check with growers that have divided a cutting and rooted both, see if the leaves are the same or different. Just a thought and worth getting feedback from other growers.

Scott, thanks for sharing.  What you have looks like the same situation as the Nero 600m above I posted photos of and what seems to have taken place with Wuhan (don't have photos of that to share).  I bring this up as I'm wondering if this is what's behind the Genovese Nero confusion right now.

I remember reading on this forum a year or so ago someone claiming that leaves lower on a tree may be broader (to catch more sun) while leaves higher up on that tree may be more deeply lobed, both to let more light through to the lower leaves and to be more tolerant of the windier conditions they might be exposed to.  Regarding the wind, the notion is that broad leaves higher up might catch more wind and be ripped apart, so instead they grow with lobes.  (...on the other hand, this doesn't do much to explain why trees that only have broad, single lobed leaves, don't all end up with shredded leaves at the top...)
There's definitely a lot going on here...
Jim

 
This is the leaf shape of my Genovese Nero if it helps

I have quite a few young potted trees which should big single-lobed leaves on the bottom and then multiple-lobed leaves higher up.  Jon mentioned Raspberry Lattee having different leaf forms on the tree.  Although the subject of this thread was meant to discuss causes of there being consistently different leaf forms on different branches (I edited original post to make this more clear), I decided to check out my Raspberry Latte tree.  Interestingly, this seems to be the only tree that is opposite of the situation described in the first sentence of this post: the lower leaves have multiple, deeply lobed-leaves while the top has single lobes.

 

A friend came by today and he noticed some leaves on my DFIC 0023 Palmata Hybrid didn't look right.  Looking closer, most branches had leaves without lobes but some branches had leaves with lobes.  This tree died to the ground this past winter.  Seems to be my most cold-sensitive variety.

   

I can understand variable leaf shape on the same tree.......but if I had a Genovese Nero with 100% finger shaped leaves I would be wondering if I actually have a Genovese Nero.   Mistakes do happen.......tags fall out.  It is one reason I hardwire a tag to a container right from the start.