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Legal, legitimate selling of Figs

Ciao Amici!  I was just informed of a few facts, and wanted to share with you all and wanted to ask a few questions as well.  I started a little website in the hopes of starting a little Mediterranean plant selling business, but I need to know the specifics about getting licenses ect to sell plants from home and even on ebay!!!  I was told it could be illegal to sell plants from home, they call " backyard nurseries " the states vary but they all seem to say you need a special license to do so. I called the PDA here in Pennsylvania and am waiting on  a reply still.  I just want to do it the right way and wonder if anyone else may know this procedure or if their is something I have to specifically enquire about. I know there is a nursery license, but I wouldn't call what I am trying to do a nursery! Its more of a small profitable hobby.  I get worried that I may have to pay out more money for a license than I will probably ever get from the figs, ect.  I want to know if anyone else has to deal with this, I researched ebay and they said that the sellers of plants need to have a license especially backyard growers like myself. I don't know, others say they don't worry, I just want to know as the article about the fig smuggling on the forum made me dive further into understanding what you can and cannot do.  It really hit a nerve with me reading about this poor older man and what they did to him.  I know he had a different reason for his imprisonment, but when you start researching all the legal ways, all this new informations and do's and don't pop up.  Thanks for listening.

Maggie,

Every state is different, both for selling and shipping, and for receiving.

In California you are required to have a  Nursery License before selling any plants (so technically selling a plant at a garage sale is illegal without the license). Every state has requirements and regulations about plants coming into their state, wihch are generally more stringent for plants which are in the same genus/family as things which they grow commercially. For me, anything going to southern tier states needs to be inspected and certified as snail free. Northern states don't care because they will all freeze in the winter, anyway. Because we have citrus, stone-fruit, wine and nut industires in CA, those plants are very tightly controlled when coming into CA, and even when moved around the state. Essentially all material coming into CA needs a phytosanitary cert, and thus all or nearly all Ebay sales which are shipped to CA are illegal. Here, all of this is handled by a county ag office, though the license comes from the state.

So, I have a license, annual inspections, inspection and monitoring for Sudden Oak Death (SOD), monitoring and inspection for Glassy-winged Sharpshooters (Pierce's Disease vectors), Spent the last 6 months in a Fruit fly quarantine zone (couldn't move any fruit and several types of plant material), have county and state ag insect traps monitoring all sorts of things, have new regualtions and testing coming for water run-off (read $$), and each year something new gets added.

Jon,

Are you saying that even cuttings can't be sent to Ca.?

i know in florida if you're selling citrus it opens a big fat can of worms. i'm planning on a hobby business selling primarily muscadine grapes, trees (no citrus) and houseplants. i am investing probably 20 thousand dollars in it. there are very few who actually make substantial money with this, and i'm certainly not planning to do much more than grow a lot of my own food and recover my investment over a couple of years. i am definitely going to get a proper license. i have a medical license to protect (rn, becoming a nurse practitioner), and these days i pretty much live by the book, else it is an awkward hassle with the state board :).

there are nurseries going broke all over this state. the economy is bad, and my friends tell me their ornamental plant business is less than half of what it was a few years ago. i would definitely keep my investment down unless you have money to burn.

if you do it very small and you're not shipping internationally, i would think as a practical matter you can play dumb and apologize if and when you get caught. how many plants will you have shipped? a few hundred? if you don't antagonize them and just roll over and pee like a scared dog and make them feel powerful, they won't do much with you. that's my experience with bureaucrats.

we really don't know all the facts behind the guy with the orchids. clearly, his problems arose from international shipments. i'd like to read more in depth about his case.

I guess pretty soon you may need a phyto-certificate to donate food to the 'Food Banks' too.
I see so many ads for house-plants on sale on Kijiji websites because people are moving or down sizing. Will the government agents be getting busy with them too. If not then how does it differs from disposing some of your surplus plants from your backyard hobby!
I guess the sellers may have to resort to ads like ' fig for a good home, donation required', or 'figs available for/on barter basis, money accepted for barter basis'!

In NJ,you have to have a nursery Certificate and a Bussiness permit,with authorization,to retain taxes,for local sales.
The Departament of Agriculture come and inspect,your small nursery,and they will issue a certification,if no problem is found,if there is problems,then they will reinspect,another time,and you suppose to fix all problems,that were found at first inspection.
If your place passes,you pay $75 for nursery certificate,and one will be sent to you.
Of course a bussiness permitt is mandatory,and every 3 month one has to report all sales figures,and send the state tax to the NJ state treasury.
When you get your licence,you will get informations,about,restriction,quarantine,etc.
I do have everythink legal,so I sell my young figs as legal as it can be done.
Best Regards
H2

Ottawan,

In some states it is illegal to GIVE plants AWAY without a nursery license, even if the sale price is $0.

Cecil,

Cuttings coming from out side the country, or going outside the country do need a license, phyto, etc. Of the 1000s of nurseries/growers in San Diego County, only one has been able to get the paperwork to ship to any place in the EU: that would be Paul Ecke (poinsettias). And it has taken several years, special quarantine facilities, weekly pesticide spray programs, etc. Even USDA/UC Davis cannot get a phyto to ship cuttings to the EU countries.

Read the post about Fig Smuggler Beware for more http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3698387 

When the new run-off regulations kick in in a year and a half, or so, I may have to give up selling plants. The cost of all the permits, inspections, etc. is quickly becoming prohibitive for all but volume producers/sellers, and then only a few things will be available, and the heirloom stuff will become increasingly hard to find. The water run-off testing will probably be $2-300, and maybe more per year. That moves the break even point another 15-20 trees further away.

Welcome to the real world.

Jon, What would the poor plants do then!

How will one green world happen? Far away in the future I can see that trees in the parks will have 'phyto-certificates' hanging over them. Others will have their 'phyto-certificates' rescinded until further tests so rubbing with those trees will not transmit disease to other locations. Just thinking loud....

Ciao Everyone,  Jon, wow, that is so much legalities you poor man you have to go through.  Thanks everyone for replies.  

I called Harrisburg at the Pennsylvania Dept of Agriculture and spoke with a very nice friendly man, he helped me out immensely and yes, In order for me to start my business or even sell or mail or share a fig tree, I need to send the 40.00 and I filled out the application and he said it doesn't take long to get my license, so everything should be okay, I am very happy that now I know what i can and can't do.  After i receive my license, I will be able to sell my various plants and even mail them too.Even so much as trading and mailing them, was against the law!!!!!!!!!, so I am on the way and my license should come soon, I feel much better now, Honestly, I never knew there was sooo much involved in even this hobby. Not just with selling but distributing plant material through the country.  Also my application for legalling bringing family figs from Italy and not having them sent illegally to me!!!!   This is what the laws here in Pennsylvania are, its different state to state, but if anyone wants to know the ins and outs, I would say call your Department of Agriculture and chat with these people so you know what the laws are in your state.  What I was doing, I will not be doing until I get this license.  Ciao Amici e Famiglia on Fig for fun forum.   Maggie

Glad you got your information. Hope you tell us what you will be selling. My collection is still very small and I am looking for trees and cuttings.

papayamon
'we really don't know all the facts behind the guy with the orchids. clearly, his problems arose from international shipments. i'd like to read more in depth about his case.'
__________________
mike
zone 8b, gainesville florida


Hey Mike,
I don't have all the facts in this situation, but for more details on the background of the 'Orchid raid', see my post dated 10/06/09 on the "if you are a fig smuggler BEWARE..." thread. Read my summary there, and/or you can really get into it by reading all this stuff:

Pittman, C. "The Case of the Purloined Orchid."  Sarasota Magazine, Mar 2005.
http://www.sarasotamagazine.com/Articles/Sarasota-Magazine/2005/03/The-Case-of-the-Purloined-Orchid.asp?ht=

see photos of this rare orchid, and some more detailed botanical history here:
http://www.ottawaorchidsociety.com/september_2007.pdf

Some other internet articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phragmipedium_kovachii
http://www.greenzoo.net/trouble.htm
http://www.pollenatrix.com/pollenatrix/2004/03/online_orchid_d.html

US Fish and Wildlife Service, they enforce the laws of CITES (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species):
Annual Report FY 2004, U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, Office of Law Enforcement, August 2005, see P. 16
http://www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/AnnualReportFY2004.pdf.

USFWS press release "Two Individuals Indicted in Miami for Smuggling Protected Peruvian Orchids"
http://www.fws.gov/southeast/news/2004/r04-021.html

A legal brief on the appeal of Mr. Norris' conviction:
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:a3HPNjWKTXcJ:openjurist.org/452/f3d/1275/united-states-v-w-norris+George+W.+Norris,+texas+orchids&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a


i have ordered trees from amazon, and had them shipped to CA...I'm growing them for myself...Was this illegal?

When you get going let us know!  I bet you'll have things I'll buy.      :)

you have to look at your state and local laws. i dont have to have any special licens or permits, all i had to do was run an add in the paper stating what the biz name was for 30 days. if noone contested i was in biz.

Dave, anyone can get a business license, but that is not permission to sell agricultural products across state lines.  Entirely different thing!

Suzi

that is a beautiful orchid. i wonder what it would taste like...

Plant Merchant Certification

Under Pennsylvania's Plant Pest Act nursery stock is defined as: All trees, shrubs, brambles, woody vines, woody florist stock, herbaceous perennials, vegetable plants, bedding and other annual herbaceous plants, their roots, cuttings, grafts, scions, buds, fruit pits, seeds and their parts for propagation, except bulbs, field crop seeds, vegetable seeds, flower seeds, regardless of where the material may have been grown or is growing.

Persons engaged primarily as growers of nursery stock are considered nurseries. This definition includes many Pennsylvania greenhouse operations, in addition to traditional nurseries.

Persons that are engaged in buying and selling nursery stock, but are not primarily growers, are considered nursery dealers. It is within this diverse group of nursery dealers that most of the confusion over certification requirements has arisen. Nursery dealers include landscape contractors, chain stores, garden centers, plant distributors, mail order firms, collectors, conservation districts conducting plant sales and any other individual who receives plants for the purposes of reselling or reshipping. By applying for certification, a nursery dealer verifies that he will buy and sell only plants that have been inspected and certified. A certificate of inspection must always accompany all wholesale lots or out-of-state shipments.

The process for becoming certified as a new nursery, nursery dealer or greenhouse is initiated either by the individual requesting certification and completing and submitting the application for registration and $40.00 registration fee or is initiated by one of our field inspectors or supervisors.

Nursery stock offered for sale is subject to inspection for injurious plant pests. If an inspection reveals harmful insects or plant diseases, stop-sale orders may be issued. Samples are frequently submitted to one of the Bureau of Plant Industry laboratories in Harrisburg for diagnosis. If practical controls exist, a recommendation is made. Controls range from biological agents, chemical agents, and cultural practices to the destruction of plants in some cases.

Once the establishment is registered, an account is established within PDA's PAPlants licensing system and the individual is issued a PIN to access the on-line account. An application for renewal will automatically be sent each year, usually in early October.

Every state in the United States has a nursery inspection and certification program. However, not all states are involved in the inspection of greenhouse crops. More than 40 states have a fee for certification that varies from a few dollars to over $1,000. Pennsylvania's annual $40 fee is the result of a bill passed by the legislature as Act 67 of 1990 which established fees for some 440 licenses and permits statewide. Funds collected under this bill have been used to create a special restricted account called the Plant Pest Management Account to be used to improve and enhance plant inspection and certification programs in Pennsylvania. This is a direct benefit to the state's horticulture industry.

As said all states have there own requirements:  http://www.state.nj.us/agriculture/divisions/pi/reg/nursery.html

My family's greenhouses are in MA and there is a lincense and annual inspection process.

And do not forgot the business taxes!

  • jtp

Oh, the intrigue! If we are all wrong, I don't want to be right. Hmmm, I wonder what fig prison is like ...

i spent a night in drunk tank once. they don't have fig trees in there.

Well the intent is to prevent insects and diseases spreading, and protecting patented plant stock but the tax man is involved in this also so.....I am curious if the eBay cuttings sales are being monitored, I know of no one being questioned over it?

Jack, yes, eBay sales are monitored, though I don't think they are anywhere close to having adequate staff to check them all.  I mentioned in another post two weeks ago how I had a surprise visit by some USDA department I had never heard of before and they question me about the origin of the chestnut trees I'm growing (all was okay).  They told me that their unit out of Colorado monitors eBay sales.  A guy I know in Florida wrote about three years ago that he had bought some palm seeds on eBay and some time later he had a visited by some uniformed officials that scared the heck out of him.  It might have been a CITES violation which is regulated by fish and game officials.  I mentioned this before, http://www.nationalplantboard.org has a good summary of regulations for each state.  It's what my ag officials refer to when I go in to have a phyto prepared for plants I'm shipping.  I just paid my nursery license renewal of $150.  Many states are much less but have fewer pests they are having to trap/monitor.  I am in a light brown apple moth quarantine zone (just a leaf roller pest that I've been told is probably going to become unregulated since damage is of little significance) so they trap for that and my chestnut trees are sample for Sudden Oak Death (a Phytopthora disease).

My sister took over the family nurseries and she complains of the increased costs

Jon chuckled yesterday because of all the stickers I had on the package I sent him.  My cost isn't very high, but a big time consumption of time and I see a lot of government waste (i.e., 3 people come in 2 cars to gather leaf samples of chestnut, etc. for Sudden Oak Death).

Phrag. kovachii was legally introduced by one or two growers a few years ago.  You can now purchase it legally, but it's hybrids are stronger, better shaped and last longer.

Maggie,

     You hit it. Most states regulate plant sales through their department of agriculture. Most don't care if you ship out of state, but most also care if you ship into their state from the outside.

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