Hi Mike,

If the variegation were because it's a chimera, then I agree with the statements above that basically say:
         a) it's possible (even probable) for one of the genotypes to become dominant and essentially overwhelm the other (thus variegation appears lost), and
         b) it's also possible for it to "return" (it was never fully gone in that case, just not manifesting in the foliage), and
         c) pruning back to a point where variegation was last observably manifest would increase your odds of seeing a manifestation of the variegation in the leaves.
(I realize that because of the way you acquired these trees, you don't really know where on the tree that was).  The main thought here is just that some amount of both (or all) of the genotypes present in the tree in the past are likely still there somewhere in the tree, just maybe not where it's making foliage.  So pruning to that location greatly increases the odds of seeing the multiple genotypes express (manifest) in foliage.

Though chimeras may be the most common kind of variegation, not all variegation is chimeric.  It can also be expressed because of polyploidy, and also from various epigenetic occurrences.  Here's an article that makes reference to polyploid variegation in St. John's Wort  (http://journal.ashspublications.org/content/131/6/725.full.pdf). That article is narrowly fashioned and mostly about inheritance of the variegation, but hits some of the interesting bits nonetheless.  When you consider epigenetic causes of variegation, it gets much more complicated.  (Those ideas get really interesting... you might even fashion an argument that we're all chimeras at one level or another).

Good luck sorting it out with your trees.  Sounds like it'll take a bit of guesswork and experimentation if you're to recover any of the lost variegation.  Good luck!  (and let us know how it turns out).

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

p.s.  And by the way, if it WERE to have been FMD that was severe enough to appear very much like variegation (which I have seen in some of my own trees), then your experiences with these trees would be at least as interesting and maybe moreso.  I like hearing the stories of trees that seem to lose symtoms of FMD too.  (Seems a fair number of northeast growers have observed that happening spontaneously).  I know it's not the idea you're onto here, but it's also quite interesting I think.

Hi Mike.
Thanks for the link. And the thoughtful post.

I'm leaning heavily toward the chimera theory and hope some "lucky' pruning will answer some questions.

It seems if we look at Jolly Tiger as an example, loosing variegation isn't all that uncommon or difficult to do. As they are still too young and coming out of dormancy they haven't produced any leaves formed enough for me to compare with Jolly Tiger. Time time time. That's the thing with Mother Nature - she's always demanding time.

About the FMV; I seriously doubt this has anything to do with this occurrence. The person who sent me the trees owns a nursery (meaning her level of experience is high) and still has two of these figs that are variegated -- one is the source for my 3 trees. She also knows the person who has the tree her still variegated trees came from and it's still variegated.

BTW - I hope to get a few figs this year from one of my Cavalieres. That will be exciting. I acquired a Brogiotto Nero for comparison but it won't be ready until next year.

Thanks,
MGG

Mike you ask me -Do you think the figs produced by the Jolly Tiger are of a quality that warrants keeping that variety even if it looses variegation or is the reason for keeping Jolly Tiger mainly the oddity of variegation?

On my palate i do not care for the figs just the beauty for its variegation but taste is subjective.



As a note i have Panache also in Chimera family shaped in a  V that grow out of 1 main trunk.
Left part is all variegated fruit and wood, right side is all reversed in wood and fruit and it has not changed year after year.

Hi again Mike,

The Cavaliere that I bought from you is doing nicely this spring too... it seems to like the longer days and is growing nicely.  I'd be surprised if it fruits this year, but it is thriving and putting on growth.  I too have Brogiotto Nero (it's too young for making fruit this year also... a new cutting).  I believe they are different varieties (Cavaliere and Brogiotto Nero), but like you I should also be in a position to compare directly within a couple of years.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5a

Martin,
That's interesting. I've read others who've said they thought the JT fig was really good. I know your experience with figs is extensive so I'm great full to have your opinion.
Are the 2 different figs produced by your Panachee different flavors? I've read that those who grow Reverse say the figs have a richer flavor then Panachee. I lost my Panachee years ago and am finally rooting a few this year and will replace it. I'd love to get one like yours.
tx

Mike,
From everything I've read Cavaliere and B. Nero are very similar but not identical. It will be nice to have a comparison. Cavaliere seems to be quite rare as I have only seen that one group for sale. I can't wait to taste it. I have (3) 3 year olds and (2) I rooted last year. I guess I'll root a few more this year as trade bait. c u mgg

Update;
I never got variegated leaves last year.
This year one of the trees put out a large sucker that has variegated leaves.

The Brooklyn White that had one variegated leaf last year has not produced another.

Michael,

Has your Cavaliere fruited?
Do you have pictures of ripe fruit.

Thanks

Hi mgginva,
I would fertilize that tree like no other one.
The goal is to make it grow faster than it can produce chlorophyll thus producing variegated leaves. On other variegated plants I grew, it helped with keeping the variegated pattern.

As for the root sucker, I would airlayer it in July, and try to keep that source of variegated leaves/stems ... 

Funny, that in that post, some report "Panachée" as having variegated leaves. Normally, the true french "Panachée" has striped fruits but solid green leaves.
That's what I read and saw everywhere . When young the wood shows light and dark patterns.
If you have variegated leaves, then, it should be something else .

Rafed,
Yes but I only took this one not so great photo when I didn't have a knife (sad as everyone should always have a knife) and ripped the fig open. Was a very tasty fig. Do you need one?

jdsfrance,
I guess I should dump a hand full of bunny poop on it. I'm waiting on a new kelp fertilizer I want to try as well. I had 2 other plants from the same mother tree. I still have 1 so it will be interesting to see if suckers from the other one show variegation. One did (the one showing variegation) have a fig last year.



  

Thanks for the info and photo Michael.

And thanks for the offer but I have one. A bit slow to wake up but she's still breathing.
I'll check on her later.

that's great michael. i would love pictures. so from what everyone is saying dont you want to cut the green down to the last node to get it to go back to variegated? thanks for the great thread. cant wait till it fruits. have a great day

Rafed,
Any time.

Eithieus, I'm very happy about the sucker and I hope my other tree does the same thing. I guess these are Jolly Tigers but I really don't know.   

There is a picture of the fruit from this tree in post #35. Can one of you all tell me if this looks like its' fruit is the same as the Jolly Tigers you have? It does to me but as that was the only fig it had and I've yet to see a Jolly Tiger, help would be appreciated.

I'm also a bit confused about whether I should cut this sucker back to the node above the 2 leaves with both yellow and dark green or should I consider the all yellow leaves variegated? As there are no dark green leaves on this sucker should I start the process of separating it from the "mother" tree? I should mention that as this sucker has grown it has produced only all yellow leaves. The first 2 leaves had both yellow and dark green but since then - just all yellow.

I have, btw, given it a heavy dose of fertilizer.

Also I got one of the other 2 plants I accidentally sold back. Do you all think it's worth just randomly pruning back different parts to see if I can get "behind" the point where variegation was lost?

Again - thanks for all the help and advise.

Though it's rare, I think variegation can arise in just about any variety. Hopefully if the mutation is in a bud/stem, it can be maintained with pruning. If it arises in only a leaf without the possibility of cloning (cuttings, etc), it will be lost with that leaf.

I suspect some varieties are more prone to having chimeras develop, but they are probably unstable. Just a guess, but Panachee is probably one of them, since it already has a form of variegation already.

Here is a recent thread by Jon of variegated leaves developing on one of his panachees: 

 http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/variegated-panache-6879876?highlight=variegated+panachee&pid=1282634208#post1282634208

Thanks Gina.

Here is another thread that might be of interest to you.

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/my-tiger-is-jolly-again-6821644?pid=1282090358#post1282090358


I was looking for a recent thread of Jon's (a different one than the one linked in post #40) that showed a photo of a branch of, I believe, Panache with 3 variegated leaves. But either I can't find it, I'm wrong, or that thread has been deleted. If I am remembering correctly about the plant, I suspect we'll see it again. ;)

Thanks again. I wish I'd seen that before I got rid of 2 of these plants (I had to pay a serious bribe to get one back).